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The defence

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Re: The defence

Postby PEAR CIDER » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:46 am

gazza1988 wrote:
Rob wrote:
Vantage007 wrote:Put simply It's such a great squad of players we have. What I don't want to happen is that we play Hewitt too soon and he gets injured again. We've got this far without him this season so is it worth the risk?


Nope, thanks to how superbly JB has done we don't have to rush him back. The grudging praise from Gazza and Geoff is so disrespectful and just wrong, you both clearly are predisposed. I'm glad he keeps proving you both (and a couple of others) wrong.

Gazza, it's bizarre to say 15 players played as well as JB on Saturday, that's just utter nonsense. For example, Maris os my favourite Stags player, yet I thought he was well below par, a couple of others were too and even Nichols was about to be rightly subbed before his great goal. Its all a bit sad, as Sneag said, has he nicked your car?



I didn't say 15 other players played as well as Bowery just that 15 other also played well. There were no "bad" performances. It's just weird that I now seem to HAVE to say JB was amazing every game, otherwise it means I'm being "disrespectful". My point was others played well (some better than others but like I said no "bad"). Some didn't have the time really to be good or bad because they didn't have a lot of time to make a big impact. I don't think I've singled out any player particularly from Saturday's game.

I wouldn't have thought people would want my opinion on Bowery every game. Every time I mention a mistake I get ganged up on and when I say he's done well it either gets ignored or called disrespectful.


I had no qualms with him playing LB Macca has just returned and had more minutes than perhaps he should have to get back up to speed, Cargill caught that illness that's going round. MacDonald is out injured. Aaron Lewis is an option but he will be playing and training as a midfielder.

My list for RB though is Johnson, Williams and Bowery in 3rd. If Hewitt returns to the level he was before then he drops to 4th place. I'm sorry but we signed good fullbacks in the summer. Nobody at all has ever questioned his commitment to the side or willingness to do what he is asked of. He is one of those players who is just a model professional.


I think it was the undertone of the comment, whether you meant it or not, came across as negative and a reluctance to say he did well. This is why I say sometimes I genuinely think you don't even realise you're doing it. He had a brilliant game Saturday which many have acknowledged, somehow your comment has managed to turn this into a big debate.

You're also correct, you don't have to say he plays well every game, but I cannot recall many (if any) positives about his performances in defense from you at all. Its always fault, this is why you have a reputation on this board. I was genuinely waiting for your match day update the other day to say Bowery has miscontrolled the ball and its rolled out of play.... Anyway....

You don't have to like him, that's fine and everyone will have different opinions on their starting 11 and formations, however it should also be backed up with what's being seen on the pitch and whats happening in reality. There are too many variables as to why Bowery is playing at the back, however he has cemented his place in the starting line up and he shouldn't be dropped because someone is coming back to fitness. That player coming needs to earn their place, especially when we have a defensive record like ours.

Watch him drop a clanger tonight :D
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Re: The defence

Postby gazza1988 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:19 pm

PEAR CIDER wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
Rob wrote:
Vantage007 wrote:Put simply It's such a great squad of players we have. What I don't want to happen is that we play Hewitt too soon and he gets injured again. We've got this far without him this season so is it worth the risk?


Nope, thanks to how superbly JB has done we don't have to rush him back. The grudging praise from Gazza and Geoff is so disrespectful and just wrong, you both clearly are predisposed. I'm glad he keeps proving you both (and a couple of others) wrong.

Gazza, it's bizarre to say 15 players played as well as JB on Saturday, that's just utter nonsense. For example, Maris os my favourite Stags player, yet I thought he was well below par, a couple of others were too and even Nichols was about to be rightly subbed before his great goal. Its all a bit sad, as Sneag said, has he nicked your car?



I didn't say 15 other players played as well as Bowery just that 15 other also played well. There were no "bad" performances. It's just weird that I now seem to HAVE to say JB was amazing every game, otherwise it means I'm being "disrespectful". My point was others played well (some better than others but like I said no "bad"). Some didn't have the time really to be good or bad because they didn't have a lot of time to make a big impact. I don't think I've singled out any player particularly from Saturday's game.

I wouldn't have thought people would want my opinion on Bowery every game. Every time I mention a mistake I get ganged up on and when I say he's done well it either gets ignored or called disrespectful.


I had no qualms with him playing LB Macca has just returned and had more minutes than perhaps he should have to get back up to speed, Cargill caught that illness that's going round. MacDonald is out injured. Aaron Lewis is an option but he will be playing and training as a midfielder.

My list for RB though is Johnson, Williams and Bowery in 3rd. If Hewitt returns to the level he was before then he drops to 4th place. I'm sorry but we signed good fullbacks in the summer. Nobody at all has ever questioned his commitment to the side or willingness to do what he is asked of. He is one of those players who is just a model professional.


I think it was the undertone of the comment, whether you meant it or not, came across as negative and a reluctance to say he did well. This is why I say sometimes I genuinely think you don't even realise you're doing it. He had a brilliant game Saturday which many have acknowledged, somehow your comment has managed to turn this into a big debate.

You're also correct, you don't have to say he plays well every game, but I cannot recall many (if any) positives about his performances in defense from you at all. Its always fault, this is why you have a reputation on this board. I was genuinely waiting for your match day update the other day to say Bowery has miscontrolled the ball and its rolled out of play.... Anyway....

You don't have to like him, that's fine and everyone will have different opinions on their starting 11 and formations, however it should also be backed up with what's being seen on the pitch and whats happening in reality. There are too many variables as to why Bowery is playing at the back, however he has cemented his place in the starting line up and he shouldn't be dropped because someone is coming back to fitness. That player coming needs to earn their place, especially when we have a defensive record like ours.

Watch him drop a clanger tonight :D


I really like Jordan as a person (well limited from interviews but you know what I mean, comes across as a genuinely nice guy) I really really like him as a footballer. He could easily have shied away from it when he wasn't quite putting in the performances he has this season when compared to previous seasons. He hasn't and works really hard.

THe "negative" was I commented on games and gave as much a play by play as I could. People ignored positives I wrote and just focussed on the negatives I wrote. Would you not agree he's made his fair share of mistakes? The thing is people focussed on those "negative" comments. I can't remember what game it was but it turned out that the positive to negative ratio on my "commentary" was mostly positive for that particular game. There will be games where it's the other way. He has had stinkers of games before as have other players who are playing in their more "natural" position.

He might drop a clanger tonight, I do doubt it though. I'm going to say if he plays LB tonight he will get a goal, my guess is he received the ball on the left and cut inside 2 players and bend it into the top right corner, I'll point out he was in his "best" left forward position when he received the ball you argue he's playing left back and scored :D. If RB an assist with a beautifully curled cross we are used to from Macca on the left after collecting a cleared corner assisting Flint with his first headed goal. Or both.
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Re: The defence

Postby broomo » Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:35 pm

Sneag wrote:I don't know if it's the trauma of watching Stags for 50 years but despite our amazing defensive record this season, I'm still having kittens when we defend a 1 goal lead & get proper heebee geebees whenever the opposition cross the halfway line. :lol:


Must be past trauma.

I don't carry the baggage of 50 years as a Stag and this season more than any I feel pretty relaxed if we score first.

There's still the nervousness but it's a relaxed nervous!!

Anyone know how many points we've dropped from winning positions this season? It may well be higher than my confidence warrants.

I think we're the only team in the division with more than a point per game when going behind (12 points from 11 games) but can't find the stats for the other way around.
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Re: The defence

Postby MTFCMusings » Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:40 pm

broomo wrote:
Sneag wrote:I don't know if it's the trauma of watching Stags for 50 years but despite our amazing defensive record this season, I'm still having kittens when we defend a 1 goal lead & get proper heebee geebees whenever the opposition cross the halfway line. :lol:


Must be past trauma.

I don't carry the baggage of 50 years as a Stag and this season more than any I feel pretty relaxed if we score first.

There's still the nervousness but it's a relaxed nervous!!

Anyone know how many points we've dropped from winning positions this season? It may well be higher than my confidence warrants.

I think we're the only team in the division with more than a point per game when going behind (12 points from 11 games) but can't find the stats for the other way around.


6pts dropped from winning positions in the league :

Crewe (A)
Doncaster (H)
Morecambe (A)
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Re: The defence

Postby Scothie the Stag » Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:43 pm

[*]
broomo wrote:
Sneag wrote:I don't know if it's the trauma of watching Stags for 50 years but despite our amazing defensive record this season, I'm still having kittens when we defend a 1 goal lead & get proper heebee geebees whenever the opposition cross the halfway line. :lol:


Must be past trauma.

I don't carry the baggage of 50 years as a Stag and this season more than any I feel pretty relaxed if we score first.

There's still the nervousness but it's a relaxed nervous!!

Anyone know how many points we've dropped from winning positions this season? It may well be higher than my confidence warrants.

I think we're the only team in the division with more than a point per game when going behind (12 points from 11 games) but can't find the stats for the other way around.


Just looked. 6 points (Crewe, Donny and Morecambe). Only 50% of what we've gained.

I share Sneag's nerves though. Regardless of our fantastic defence, it's rare I'm comfortable unless we have a 3 goal cushion and it's 75 minutes plus!
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Re: The defence

Postby PaulG » Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:32 pm

Impossible to relax until there are fewer minutes left than we are goals in front!
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Re: The defence

Postby gazza1988 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:05 pm

PaulG wrote:Impossible to relax until there are fewer minutes left than we are goals in front!

3-0 up with 3 minutes to go you chill. 4th official puts up 8 minutes, you panic
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Re: The defence

Postby bobbystagsfan » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:19 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
PaulG wrote:Impossible to relax until there are fewer minutes left than we are goals in front!

3-0 up with 3 minutes to go you chill. 4th official puts up 8 minutes, you panic



I blame that Bristol city game. I was only young but it still haunts me :lol:
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Re: The defence

Postby gazza1988 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:49 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
PaulG wrote:Impossible to relax until there are fewer minutes left than we are goals in front!

3-0 up with 3 minutes to go you chill. 4th official puts up 8 minutes, you panic



I blame that Bristol city game. I was only young but it still haunts me :lol:


We all laugh (otherwise we would just cry) about it but that game haunts me still.

Thought I'd dig the match report out for Bear and Broomo to have a read. Might help understand why we are so jittery.

STAGS FANS DO NOT CLICK/TAP - https://www.stagsnet.net/match/reports/ ... matchid=25

scrolled down to the team. Lever and Moore. Did we play a back 3 back then? We had Gadsby who was either CB or RB or both. Did Lee Williamson play LB a few times?
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Re: The defence

Postby Sneag » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:56 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
PaulG wrote:Impossible to relax until there are fewer minutes left than we are goals in front!

3-0 up with 3 minutes to go you chill. 4th official puts up 8 minutes, you panic



I blame that Bristol city game. I was only young but it still haunts me :lol:


Saying 'that Bristol City game' at Field Mill is akin to saying MacBeth in a theatre.
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Re: The defence

Postby robeyre » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:58 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
PaulG wrote:Impossible to relax until there are fewer minutes left than we are goals in front!

3-0 up with 3 minutes to go you chill. 4th official puts up 8 minutes, you panic



I blame that Bristol city game. I was only young but it still haunts me :lol:


We all laugh (otherwise we would just cry) about it but that game haunts me still.

Thought I'd dig the match report out for Bear and Broomo to have a read. Might help understand why we are so jittery.

STAGS FANS DO NOT CLICK/TAP - https://www.stagsnet.net/match/reports/ ... matchid=25

scrolled down to the team. Lever and Moore. Did we play a back 3 back then? We had Gadsby who was either CB or RB or both. Did Lee Williamson play LB a few times?


I think this was the game that broke Adam Murray. He has never been the same gung-ho person since.
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Re: The defence

Postby bobbystagsfan » Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:02 pm

That was against Bristol rovers, and that's when he was our manager. Or am I missing some joke here lol
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Re: The defence

Postby Marky Mark » Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:30 pm

robeyre wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
PaulG wrote:Impossible to relax until there are fewer minutes left than we are goals in front!

3-0 up with 3 minutes to go you chill. 4th official puts up 8 minutes, you panic



I blame that Bristol city game. I was only young but it still haunts me :lol:


We all laugh (otherwise we would just cry) about it but that game haunts me still.

Thought I'd dig the match report out for Bear and Broomo to have a read. Might help understand why we are so jittery.

STAGS FANS DO NOT CLICK/TAP - https://www.stagsnet.net/match/reports/ ... matchid=25

scrolled down to the team. Lever and Moore. Did we play a back 3 back then? We had Gadsby who was either CB or RB or both. Did Lee Williamson play LB a few times?


I think this was the game that broke Adam Murray. He has never been the same gung-ho person since.


He’s not the only one it broke
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Re: The defence

Postby Rob » Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:20 pm

Sneag wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
PaulG wrote:Impossible to relax until there are fewer minutes left than we are goals in front!

3-0 up with 3 minutes to go you chill. 4th official puts up 8 minutes, you panic



I blame that Bristol city game. I was only young but it still haunts me :lol:


Saying 'that Bristol City game' at Field Mill is akin to saying MacBeth in a theatre.


I have never, ever left a football ground in so much despair, it was in Stags supporting terms by far and away the worst day of my life and I'm still not fully over it. I hated every second of writing that report.
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Re: The defence

Postby robeyre » Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:29 am

bobbystagsfan wrote:That was against Bristol rovers, and that's when he was our manager. Or am I missing some joke here lol

Quite right. Sorry.
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Re: The defence

Postby bear 73 » Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:38 pm

Thanks gazza it sounds a night mare but all clubs have nightmare moments, mine was when Hawkins got sent off at Wembley for being silly, and gave us a mountain to climb with ten men.
Losing in the play offs is always a downer
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