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Ifs, buts and maybes

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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby bear 73 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:02 pm

In reply to Cleveland stag
Wellens At Salford and Doncaster did not last a full season So his season at Orient could be a flash in the pan.
Evans left Gillingham in a right old mess and left Peterborough under a cloud, and Mansfield well it says it all.
Simpson his last management role was Stockport county i from july 2010 until jan 2011 and a short spell with Bristol City as care taker manager from 2021 Feb 16th to 21st Feb so once more no history or experience.
Wood first job as a manager a x coach of Man Utd no history of any kind.
Edwards did a job at F-G=R lost his best players left and F=G=R on course for relegation, was sacked by Watford in 2023 now at Luton, so F=G=R are no better off long term ,
Barton first job with a multi millionaire at Fleetwood did a good job but soon spat his dummy out, got Bristol Rovers promoted in a strange set of circumstances treading water in league 1 done well
Brady been at Northampton since 2016 as a coach was caretaker when they lost their league 1 status, lost in the playoffs to Mansfield town and it was the Stags who played in the final at Wembley.
Morecambe and Cambridge are fighting relegation 22 and 23 in league 1 so a short success for them not what you want not keeping league 1 status.
Evatt at Bolton well with national history as a club a ground that holds 23,723 and with a average attendance of 18,516 in league 1 matched only by Sheff Wed=Derby County-Ipswich.
Using a club like Bolton as a yardstick for Mansfield Town this must be a joke , i must look at bishop st again on Sat, try to get in the club shop and battle my way into Sandys, Oh no a pint in the rain again
Standing room only.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby Chrisuknottm » Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:18 pm

bear 73 wrote:In reply to Cleveland stag
Wellens At Salford and Doncaster did not last a full season So his season at Orient could be a flash in the pan.
Evans left Gillingham in a right old mess and left Peterborough under a cloud, and Mansfield well it says it all.
Simpson his last management role was Stockport county i from july 2010 until jan 2011 and a short spell with Bristol City as care taker manager from 2021 Feb 16th to 21st Feb so once more no history or experience.
Wood first job as a manager a x coach of Man Utd no history of any kind.
Edwards did a job at F-G=R lost his best players left and F=G=R on course for relegation, was sacked by Watford in 2023 now at Luton, so F=G=R are no better off long term ,
Barton first job with a multi millionaire at Fleetwood did a good job but soon spat his dummy out, got Bristol Rovers promoted in a strange set of circumstances treading water in league 1 done well
Brady been at Northampton since 2016 as a coach was caretaker when they lost their league 1 status, lost in the playoffs to Mansfield town and it was the Stags who played in the final at Wembley.
Morecambe and Cambridge are fighting relegation 22 and 23 in league 1 so a short success for them not what you want not keeping league 1 status.
Evatt at Bolton well with national history as a club a ground that holds 23,723 and with a average attendance of 18,516 in league 1 matched only by Sheff Wed=Derby County-Ipswich.
Using a club like Bolton as a yardstick for Mansfield Town this must be a joke , i must look at bishop st again on Sat, try to get in the club shop and battle my way into Sandys, Oh no a pint in the rain again
Standing room only.


So what are you saying Bear that none of these successes are warranted because ultimately things didnt pan out in whatever way. That's absolute spin and at least all those clubs got a shot at something better than League 2. The fact that some came or are coming back down is irrelevant as at least, for a brief moment in time, they gave their fans some success and the things that dreams are made of. Tell you what, let's sign a gentleman's agreement that as long as we don't get relegated we won't try for promotion.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby MTFCMusings » Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:50 pm

bear 73 wrote:In reply to Cleveland stag
Wellens At Salford and Doncaster did not last a full season So his season at Orient could be a flash in the pan.
Evans left Gillingham in a right old mess and left Peterborough under a cloud, and Mansfield well it says it all.
Simpson his last management role was Stockport county i from july 2010 until jan 2011 and a short spell with Bristol City as care taker manager from 2021 Feb 16th to 21st Feb so once more no history or experience.
Wood first job as a manager a x coach of Man Utd no history of any kind.
Edwards did a job at F-G=R lost his best players left and F=G=R on course for relegation, was sacked by Watford in 2023 now at Luton, so F=G=R are no better off long term ,
Barton first job with a multi millionaire at Fleetwood did a good job but soon spat his dummy out, got Bristol Rovers promoted in a strange set of circumstances treading water in league 1 done well
Brady been at Northampton since 2016 as a coach was caretaker when they lost their league 1 status, lost in the playoffs to Mansfield town and it was the Stags who played in the final at Wembley.
Morecambe and Cambridge are fighting relegation 22 and 23 in league 1 so a short success for them not what you want not keeping league 1 status.
Evatt at Bolton well with national history as a club a ground that holds 23,723 and with a average attendance of 18,516 in league 1 matched only by Sheff Wed=Derby County-Ipswich.
Using a club like Bolton as a yardstick for Mansfield Town this must be a joke , i must look at bishop st again on Sat, try to get in the club shop and battle my way into Sandys, Oh no a pint in the rain again
Standing room only.


The number of stands we have, the size of the club shop and the bar are none matters on which a manager is judged.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby bear 73 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:03 pm

Chrisuknottm wrote:
bear 73 wrote:In reply to Cleveland stag
Wellens At Salford and Doncaster did not last a full season So his season at Orient could be a flash in the pan.
Evans left Gillingham in a right old mess and left Peterborough under a cloud, and Mansfield well it says it all.
Simpson his last management role was Stockport county i from july 2010 until jan 2011 and a short spell with Bristol City as care taker manager from 2021 Feb 16th to 21st Feb so once more no history or experience.
Wood first job as a manager a x coach of Man Utd no history of any kind.
Edwards did a job at F-G=R lost his best players left and F=G=R on course for relegation, was sacked by Watford in 2023 now at Luton, so F=G=R are no better off long term ,
Barton first job with a multi millionaire at Fleetwood did a good job but soon spat his dummy out, got Bristol Rovers promoted in a strange set of circumstances treading water in league 1 done well
Brady been at Northampton since 2016 as a coach was caretaker when they lost their league 1 status, lost in the playoffs to Mansfield town and it was the Stags who played in the final at Wembley.
Morecambe and Cambridge are fighting relegation 22 and 23 in league 1 so a short success for them not what you want not keeping league 1 status.
Evatt at Bolton well with national history as a club a ground that holds 23,723 and with a average attendance of 18,516 in league 1 matched only by Sheff Wed=Derby County-Ipswich.
Using a club like Bolton as a yardstick for Mansfield Town this must be a joke , i must look at bishop st again on Sat, try to get in the club shop and battle my way into Sandys, Oh no a pint in the rain again
Standing room only.


So what are you saying Bear that none of these successes are warranted because ultimately things didnt pan out in whatever way. That's absolute spin and at least all those clubs got a shot at something better than League 2. The fact that some came or are coming back down is irrelevant as at least, for a brief moment in time, they gave their fans some success and the things that dreams are made of. Tell you what, let's sign a gentleman's agreement that as long as we don't get relegated we won't try for promotion.


What i am saying fighting relegation and going backwards is not progress and dreams are not made of boom and bust,
Not getting relegated is the first step 50 points and their is more to a club than just the first team, Structure and stability and a growing fan base,
Planing for a sustainable future , what ever happens Mansfield are a top league 2 side and are in the promotion mix again.
Patience when Mansfield get to league 1 it will just be a stepping stone, and i can assure you the Radfords can sleep at night.
Clough is asking for nothing their is no pressure from him for a new contract, League 1 or league 2 we just move on improving the squad
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby Chrisuknottm » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:28 pm

At the moment of getting promotion fans aren't thinking "I bet in 12 months time we will be coming back down".....they are elated after how ever many disappointments they have had. No one wants to sit around forever and not take a chance until all your qualifying boxes are ticked just in case things don't pan out. Jeez don't you ever want to take a chance and just go for it and maybe, just maybe the people you ultimately have put your faith into have done what is expected of them and you move on. Life is a gamble Bear and you can't sit on the fence forever wondering if someone has put a mattress on the side you're going to fall into.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby Chrisuknottm » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:33 pm

Chrisuknottm wrote:At the moment of getting promotion fans aren't thinking "I bet in 12 months time we will be coming back down".....they are elated after how ever many disappointments they have had. No one wants to sit around forever and not take a chance until all your qualifying boxes are ticked just in case things don't pan out. Jeez don't you ever want to take a chance and just go for it and maybe, just maybe the people you ultimately have put your faith into have done what is expected of them and you move on. Life is a gamble Bear and you can't sit on the fence forever wondering if someone has put a mattress on the side you're going to fall into.


And just to add.....those fans who are old enough to remember the great two championship teams of the70s don't talk about coming straight back down from the then League 2, they talk about Dave Smith and Peter Morris, Gordon Hodgdon and Kevin Bird, the games against Spurs, Jimmy McCaffrey and Ray Clarke.....the facts that for two seasons at least we had something to be proud of and believe in.....

And yes, your post decrying all those managers and teams for their fleeting success has got my goat.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby trenty » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:39 pm

Reference to the Bishop street stand was it not upgraded when the ground was under Haslam
If so why is it now condemned
Have heard that the old board room underneath has asbestos if that is so how did it get passed under Haslam
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby bear 73 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:50 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
bear 73 wrote:In reply to Cleveland stag
Wellens At Salford and Doncaster did not last a full season So his season at Orient could be a flash in the pan.
Evans left Gillingham in a right old mess and left Peterborough under a cloud, and Mansfield well it says it all.
Simpson his last management role was Stockport county i from july 2010 until jan 2011 and a short spell with Bristol City as care taker manager from 2021 Feb 16th to 21st Feb so once more no history or experience.
Wood first job as a manager a x coach of Man Utd no history of any kind.
Edwards did a job at F-G=R lost his best players left and F=G=R on course for relegation, was sacked by Watford in 2023 now at Luton, so F=G=R are no better off long term ,
Barton first job with a multi millionaire at Fleetwood did a good job but soon spat his dummy out, got Bristol Rovers promoted in a strange set of circumstances treading water in league 1 done well
Brady been at Northampton since 2016 as a coach was caretaker when they lost their league 1 status, lost in the playoffs to Mansfield town and it was the Stags who played in the final at Wembley.
Morecambe and Cambridge are fighting relegation 22 and 23 in league 1 so a short success for them not what you want not keeping league 1 status.
Evatt at Bolton well with national history as a club a ground that holds 23,723 and with a average attendance of 18,516 in league 1 matched only by Sheff Wed=Derby County-Ipswich.
Using a club like Bolton as a yardstick for Mansfield Town this must be a joke , i must look at bishop st again on Sat, try to get in the club shop and battle my way into Sandys, Oh no a pint in the rain again
Standing room only.


The number of stands we have, the size of the club shop and the bar are none matters on which a manager is judged.

The number of stands means more people can attend games means more revenue,
the size of the club shop means families can walk round more merchandise more choice and more sales,
The size of the bar and seating again a better match day experience and executive boxes are a good source of revenue.
With more revenue the manager has more money available for his squad and can be the difference between success and failure.
Why have big stadiums if revenue coming into a club does not affect its ability on the field,
A manager can only spend what is allocated to him and the more income provided by the club the more he gets.
Wrexham were treading water until new revenue came in and are not building a new 23 million pound stand if income does not affect matters on the pitch
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby NEStag » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:52 pm

I agree with you Chris.

I’d take a promotion and all that brings, and then paying some big teams next year and new places to visit (or revisit) like Sheff Wed, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Charlton, Derby, Bolton, Barnsley.

We might establish ourselves in League one and we may not. But I’d take a promotion and then a relegation over languishing in League Two.

I also don’t buy all this ‘building’ stuff which says you have to do 10 (or 20!) years before you’ve ‘built’ for promotion. Yes for infrastructure and facilities but at the end of the day each season is 46 games and you just need to get more points than most of the other teams. Getting the points has got nothing directly to do with the club’s facilities.

Bear - I don’t disagree with your comments that structure may (over time) affect revenue and budget etc. Just that there’s no rule (and should be no desire) to have to wait for promotion until that’s in place.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby bear 73 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:33 pm

NEStag wrote:I agree with you Chris.

I’d take a promotion and all that brings, and then paying some big teams next year and new places to visit (or revisit) like Sheff Wed, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Charlton, Derby, Bolton, Barnsley.

We might establish ourselves in League one and we may not. But I’d take a promotion and then a relegation over languishing in League Two.

I also don’t buy all this ‘building’ stuff which says you have to do 10 (or 20!) years before you’ve ‘built’ for promotion. Yes for infrastructure and facilities but at the end of the day each season is 46 games and you just need to get more points than most of the other teams. Getting the points has got nothing directly to do with the club’s facilities.

Bear - I don’t disagree with your comments that structure may (over time) affect revenue and budget etc. Just that there’s no rule (and should be no desire) to have to wait for promotion until that’s in place.

I am with you so close last season and still in the mix this one i just feel we are where we are and going in the right direction
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby Cleveland_Stag » Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:43 pm

bear 73 wrote:In reply to Cleveland stag
Wellens At Salford and Doncaster did not last a full season So his season at Orient could be a flash in the pan.
Evans left Gillingham in a right old mess and left Peterborough under a cloud, and Mansfield well it says it all.
Simpson his last management role was Stockport county i from july 2010 until jan 2011 and a short spell with Bristol City as care taker manager from 2021 Feb 16th to 21st Feb so once more no history or experience.
Wood first job as a manager a x coach of Man Utd no history of any kind.
Edwards did a job at F-G=R lost his best players left and F=G=R on course for relegation, was sacked by Watford in 2023 now at Luton, so F=G=R are no better off long term ,
Barton first job with a multi millionaire at Fleetwood did a good job but soon spat his dummy out, got Bristol Rovers promoted in a strange set of circumstances treading water in league 1 done well
Brady been at Northampton since 2016 as a coach was caretaker when they lost their league 1 status, lost in the playoffs to Mansfield town and it was the Stags who played in the final at Wembley.
Morecambe and Cambridge are fighting relegation 22 and 23 in league 1 so a short success for them not what you want not keeping league 1 status.
Evatt at Bolton well with national history as a club a ground that holds 23,723 and with a average attendance of 18,516 in league 1 matched only by Sheff Wed=Derby County-Ipswich.
Using a club like Bolton as a yardstick for Mansfield Town this must be a joke , i must look at bishop st again on Sat, try to get in the club shop and battle my way into Sandys, Oh no a pint in the rain again
Standing room only.


The point is, each of those league two teams were promoted/competing right at the top of league two with a manager who was having their first/first full season in charge there. It shows that hiring a new manager doesn’t set you back year(s) like many fans suggest.

Anyway, the best way to improve the clubs infrastructure (Bishop Street, bars, club shops as you allude to) is to get promoted and then use some of the extra money we generate each season in league one.

Some fans really are fine with being in league two every season because we’ve historically been in league two for most of our existence. Forest Green, Accrington, Cambridge, Morecambe, Burton, Cheltenham, Fleetwood, Shrewsbury, Exeter, Lincoln, Wycombe. All teams who are smaller than us or at least aren’t bigger than us and are in a higher division than us. Burton and Wycombe have had seasons in the Championship! Yeovil beat Sheffield United and Brentford in the league one playoffs and had a season the championship! If all of those smaller teams can have success in higher divisions than us, then we should expect the same ourselves considering the money we throw at it every season. Serial underachievers we are and we deserve better.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:45 pm

bear 73 wrote:
NEStag wrote:I agree with you Chris.

I’d take a promotion and all that brings, and then paying some big teams next year and new places to visit (or revisit) like Sheff Wed, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Charlton, Derby, Bolton, Barnsley.

We might establish ourselves in League one and we may not. But I’d take a promotion and then a relegation over languishing in League Two.

I also don’t buy all this ‘building’ stuff which says you have to do 10 (or 20!) years before you’ve ‘built’ for promotion. Yes for infrastructure and facilities but at the end of the day each season is 46 games and you just need to get more points than most of the other teams. Getting the points has got nothing directly to do with the club’s facilities.

Bear - I don’t disagree with your comments that structure may (over time) affect revenue and budget etc. Just that there’s no rule (and should be no desire) to have to wait for promotion until that’s in place.

I am with you so close last season and still in the mix this one i just feel we are where we are and going in the right direction
Sounds good, but look at the likes of Bury, Stockport and Rochdale. I would rather us go up into to league 1 with firm foundations and have every change of being established there, rather than a season or two there then plummet into non league oblivion.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby bigalstag1 » Fri Mar 31, 2023 8:13 pm

You've been here a couple of years on this board and you're trying to tell somebody who's been watching this club for over 50 years what it's history is and what it should aspire to. Stick to following Mr. Clough around , you should have a new message board to log into,soon, and you can tell them how lucky they are, just to sit still.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby Tawnystag » Fri Mar 31, 2023 8:27 pm

If JR 100% wanted to keep Cloughie then he would’ve offered him a new contract by now. The fact that he hasn’t, with 9 games remaining, is telling. If we don’t at least get into the playoffs then he will be gone.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:04 pm

Tawnystag wrote:If JR 100% wanted to keep Cloughie then he would’ve offered him a new contract by now. The fact that he hasn’t, with 9 games remaining, is telling. If we don’t at least get into the playoffs then he will be gone.


reminder of the fans forum, Tues 28 Feb 2023
https://stagsnet.net/news/newsdetails.php?newsid=10616
Q to Nigel: When are you getting a new contract?
Nigel: There's no rush. No great hassle. What we don't want is anything to distract the next 3 months' work that we've got to do.
If we are as bad as we were on Saturday, you might not want to be asking that question.
David: The appetite is for Nigel to stay. He's done an outstanding job since he's been here. Having stability shows you what you can do.
If it's not to be this season that we're to be promoted, then possibly it's next season. So far we're making progress on and off the pitch.
It comes down to the owners and the board - they're big fans of Nigel.
We don't want any distractions, it's right for the summer.
"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby bellwhiff » Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:49 am

bigalstag1 wrote:You've been here a couple of years on this board and you're trying to tell somebody who's been watching this club for over 50 years what it's history is and what it should aspire to. Stick to following Mr. Clough around , you should have a new message board to log into,soon, and you can tell them how lucky they are, just to sit still.

This. The patronising pats on the head are tiresome.
Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier...

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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:04 am

bigalstag1 wrote:You've been here a couple of years on this board and you're trying to tell somebody who's been watching this club for over 50 years what it's history is and what it should aspire to. Stick to following Mr. Clough around , you should have a new message board to log into,soon, and you can tell them how lucky they are, just to sit still.
Sometimes it's good to listen to other fresher points of view. I have been attending Field Mill for 60 years and and don't feel newcomers are preaching to me. I tend to agree, under NC, that we are going in the right direction.
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Re: Ifs, buts and maybes

Postby bear 73 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:38 am

bellwhiff wrote:
bigalstag1 wrote:You've been here a couple of years on this board and you're trying to tell somebody who's been watching this club for over 50 years what it's history is and what it should aspire to. Stick to following Mr. Clough around , you should have a new message board to log into,soon, and you can tell them how lucky they are, just to sit still.

This. The patronising pats on the head are tiresome.

I am not telling you anything just forming a opinion i have friends who watch Ilkeston they love to meet up have a few beers and watch the local club.
Travelling and being in big crowds not for them quite happy watching non -league but having played it. i like to watch League football.
So its about Choices they are no more or less football fans than any body watching Derby or Forest their local teams,
i have more faith in Mansfield than many who have enjoyed the last 50 years.and boy does it annoy some.
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