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Where are the leaders

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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby Weststandupper stag » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:34 pm

Cleveland_Stag wrote:
Weststandupper stag wrote:What else would you do at the minute? Who would you replace nigel with Al?


I think the first point to make is that if Clough did leave now we would be in a better position than were we were when he came in. Is it enough? No. But I don't think anybody can doubt that progress has been made.
I just think the concept of changing managers again and again is a flawed strategy. I have nothing against Robinson but he had several years at Oxford, would he be given the same time here? Possibly not although I would argue that one of the reasons why people are becoming increasingly annoyed with Clough is the style of football is deteriorating, although at the minute I think this is the result of all our footballing midfielders ( Maris, Reed, Quinn) being unavailable. If we got into the playoffs I would definitely give him a new deal, if not then I think you would have to consider long term strategy of the club with or without Clough. As part of that you should discuss style of football and identity. Apologies for the long post.
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby Cleveland_Stag » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:04 pm

You mention the concept of ‘changing the managers again and again is a flawed strategy’.

Ritchie Wellens has Leyton Orient top of the league in his first full season in charge.

Steve Evans has Stevenage 3rd in his first full season in charge.

Paul Simpson has Carlisle 4th in his first full season in charge.

Neil Wood has Salford 6th in his first season in charge (and playing a brand of football that’s 10x better than ours).

Rob Edwards won the league with Forest Green last season in his first season with the club.

Joey Barton got promoted with Bristol Rovers last season in his first full season in charge.

Jon Brady finished 4th with Northampton last season in his first season in charge (and would have got them promoted at the first time of asking if Bristol Rovers hadn’t put 7 past Scunthorpe on the last day).

Darrell Clarke got Port Vale promoted last season in his first full season in charge.

Ian Evatt got Bolton promoted in his first season in charge.

Mark Bonner got Cambridge promoted in his first full season in charge.

Derek Adam’s got Morecambe (Morecambe!!!) promoted in his first full season in charge.

All of the above is just this season and the two seasons before. That’s a LOT of success for new managers. The proof is there that it’s a complete fallacy that it automatically becomes more difficult/takes longer to get promoted because you’ve brought in a new manager.

There will be plenty of managers out there, with or without big resumes, who will be better league two managers than Clough and who will have a much clearer vision of how he wants us to play football (whereas Clough decided he wants us to play with wing backs this season despite not having nearly enough depth or quality at the centre back and wing back positions to make the formation work properly).
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:13 pm

PEAR CIDER wrote:Johnson chased down every lost cause today.

Guess how much service he got? Zero...

People watch different games


I felt he trotted around and out himself about for bit of the time. He did hound their defence a bit but not as much as Gale who did chase every lost cause.
Johnson had two perfect set ups (one in each half) and he fluffed them both.

To my mind, he looked a waste of a shirt for most of the time and cannot conceive how he has scored what he did for Walsall from what I have seen.
But the bloke behind me booed him being pulled whilst another near me would have subbed him at half time
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby PEAR CIDER » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:22 pm

Plenty of occasions he hassled their defenders. One notable one where he's cleared the ball in our box and sprinted 3/4 pitch to chase it down.

He needs consistent run in the team and service
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:47 pm

What did you make of him as a striker?
I made it that he had two gilt edged passes, one of which he fluffed and the other he had a chance on goal but, again, fluffed it
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:59 pm

PEAR CIDER wrote:Plenty of occasions he hassled their defenders. One notable one where he's cleared the ball in our box and sprinted 3/4 pitch to chase it down.

He needs consistent run in the team and service
He did put some effort in today, but compared to Gale it was minimal.
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:37 pm

Cleveland_Stag wrote:You mention the concept of ‘changing the managers again and again is a flawed strategy’.

Ritchie Wellens has Leyton Orient top of the league in his first full season in charge.

Steve Evans has Stevenage 3rd in his first full season in charge.

Paul Simpson has Carlisle 4th in his first full season in charge.

Neil Wood has Salford 6th in his first season in charge (and playing a brand of football that’s 10x better than ours).

Rob Edwards won the league with Forest Green last season in his first season with the club.

Joey Barton got promoted with Bristol Rovers last season in his first full season in charge.

Jon Brady finished 4th with Northampton last season in his first season in charge (and would have got them promoted at the first time of asking if Bristol Rovers hadn’t put 7 past Scunthorpe on the last day).

Darrell Clarke got Port Vale promoted last season in his first full season in charge.

Ian Evatt got Bolton promoted in his first season in charge.

Mark Bonner got Cambridge promoted in his first full season in charge.

Derek Adam’s got Morecambe (Morecambe!!!) promoted in his first full season in charge.

All of the above is just this season and the two seasons before. That’s a LOT of success for new managers. The proof is there that it’s a complete fallacy that it automatically becomes more difficult/takes longer to get promoted because you’ve brought in a new manager.

There will be plenty of managers out there, with or without big resumes, who will be better league two managers than Clough and who will have a much clearer vision of how he wants us to play football (whereas Clough decided he wants us to play with wing backs this season despite not having nearly enough depth or quality at the centre back and wing back positions to make the formation work properly).


I think the club will stick by Clough because they SHOULD have stuck by flitcroft. But I like the point, in management longevity shouldn't be a yardstick of success. It's a byproduct.

In the words of Roxette, "it must have been love, but it's over now".

If Radford is thinking of replacing Clough, which I doubt he is, Id be having conversations with Karl Robinson.
Last edited by arsene wengers coat on Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby PEAR CIDER » Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:45 pm

georgefostersbeard wrote:What did you make of him as a striker?
I made it that he had two gilt edged passes, one of which he fluffed and the other he had a chance on goal but, again, fluffed it


Comes down to lack of minutes, but granted he could be better

But saying that the whole team could. The service for the strikers is woeful. Hence why we are not scoring goals and getting much on target
Last edited by PEAR CIDER on Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby PEAR CIDER » Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:47 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:Plenty of occasions he hassled their defenders. One notable one where he's cleared the ball in our box and sprinted 3/4 pitch to chase it down.

He needs consistent run in the team and service
He did put some effort in today, but compared to Gale it was minimal.

It was gales first league start, he was bound to run around like a loony. He's younger and eager to impress.

Danny's game isnt pressing and running the channels, it's getting I the box.

I'm glad you've noted his effort was improved on subsequent features. I feel he's being hard done by here. Haaland woudlnt score with our service
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby MTFCMusings » Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:29 pm

Where was he for Bowery’s ball across the six yard box?
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby MTFC Man » Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:30 pm

Quinn missing has clearly been a problem, adding that to McLaughlin, Maris, Johnson and Reed being out we’ve clearly struggled to create chances. I’m sure with Quinn returning next game and then the others slowly coming back we will improve dramatically.
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:34 pm

PEAR CIDER wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:Plenty of occasions he hassled their defenders. One notable one where he's cleared the ball in our box and sprinted 3/4 pitch to chase it down.

He needs consistent run in the team and service
He did put some effort in today, but compared to Gale it was minimal.

It was gales first league start, he was bound to run around like a loony. He's younger and eager to impress.

Danny's game isnt pressing and running the channels, it's getting I the box.

I'm glad you've noted his effort was improved on subsequent features. I feel he's being hard done by here. Haaland woudlnt score with our service

His heart isn't at MTFC, it's so plain to see. Don't forget DJ has had few starts for us. He didn't appear someone who wanted to prove he should be starting for the rest of games this season.
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby JessicasCat » Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:13 am

Where's George Foster when you need him....
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby St Hilary Stag » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:02 am

I think Alfie Kilgour gives his all every match , followed closely by Elliott Hewitt .
Ollie Clarke also does a good job for us ... anyone of these 3 is a born leader !!!!!
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby Costastag » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:30 am

Eastern Green Stag wrote:I think Alfie Kilgour gives his all every match , followed closely by Elliott Hewitt .
Ollie Clarke also does a good job for us ... anyone of these 3 is a born leader !!!!!

Yes after cooling down after watching that debacle yesterday mainly caused by the tactics used by sutton i agree that the likes of kilgour and hewitt are fully committed to the cause ,but like someone else has already stated the drive usually comes from the midfield we just have to get our injured players back and give it our best shot
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby victor A block » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:50 am

Where are the leaders?

Well, living in Portugal. Is it unfair to sense a draining of enthusiasm from over on the Algarve after 10 years of trying to get out of this league.?

Do they want another season of investment with a manager who isn't delivering or risk spending even more with a new guy who comes with a big shopping list? The ground is also gradually falling apart and there is no sign of investment there. And no, I'm not blaming them.

& on the pitch..... the leaders and players that give 100% every game are the captain, Hewitt and Kilgour.(and Oates when fully fit and Quinn when not suspended)
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:49 am

Yes it is unfair
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby Ethers1979 » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:55 am

Lots of in the heat of the moment comments here I hope. Not going to get better than Nigel. Keep labelling him negative and people will believe it, but it’s clearly not true. Ben Bradley sat in the directors box yesterday was extremely embarrassing though. Voted in by some, Turkey’s and Christmas and all that.
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby PEAR CIDER » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:21 am

MTFCMusings wrote:Where was he for Bowery’s ball across the six yard box?


Let's gets Martins view on it in report. Fail to mention what happens in and around the build up the cross.

The arrogance in your post never ceases to amaze me
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby Dave Wayne » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:43 am

victor A block wrote:Where are the leaders?

Well, living in Portugal. Is it unfair to sense a draining of enthusiasm from over on the Algarve after 10 years of trying to get out of this league.?

Do they want another season of investment with a manager who isn't delivering or risk spending even more with a new guy who comes with a big shopping list? The ground is also gradually falling apart and there is no sign of investment there. And no, I'm not blaming them.

& on the pitch..... the leaders and players that give 100% every game are the captain, Hewitt and Kilgour.(and Oates when fully fit and Quinn when not suspended)

Seems to me that you are the one losing enthusiasm, not our owners.
They always said they weren't going to bankroll the club forever and wanted to make it self sustainable, and each year the accounts show that we are moving towards this.
A CEO was brought in to oversee the club, ensuring a constant presence at the helm, rather than them trying to run it from a long distance due to 'tax issues'.
I am sure when investment is needed it will be there.
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby Dave Wayne » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:46 am

PEAR CIDER wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:Where was he for Bowery’s ball across the six yard box?


Let's gets Martins view on it in report. Fail to mention what happens in and around the build up the cross.

The arrogance in your post never ceases to amaze me

Don't forget he has a blog and a podcast and is the self proclaimed guru of tactics and statistics. We should all bow down to his superior knowledge. ;)
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:50 am

PEAR CIDER wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:Where was he for Bowery’s ball across the six yard box?


Let's gets Martins view on it in report. Fail to mention what happens in and around the build up the cross.

The arrogance in your post never ceases to amaze me


Your blind love of DJ prompts the same reaction.

Where is the arrogance in that post, and why isn’t everyone else who asked a question arrogant?
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:51 am

Dave Wayne wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:Where was he for Bowery’s ball across the six yard box?


Let's gets Martins view on it in report. Fail to mention what happens in and around the build up the cross.

The arrogance in your post never ceases to amaze me

Don't forget he has a blog and a podcast and is the self proclaimed guru of tactics and statistics. We should all bow down to his superior knowledge. ;)


It seems like you’re the guru of misinformation.
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby PEAR CIDER » Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:07 am

MTFCMusings wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:Where was he for Bowery’s ball across the six yard box?


Let's gets Martins view on it in report. Fail to mention what happens in and around the build up the cross.

The arrogance in your post never ceases to amaze me


Your blind love of DJ prompts the same reaction.

Where is the arrogance in that post, and why isn’t everyone else who asked a question arrogant?


I don't have a blind love, just believe it's total over reaction from everyone because he isn't scoring.

If you cannot see how your post comes accross then there is no helping
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Re: Where are the leaders

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:11 am

PEAR CIDER wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:Where was he for Bowery’s ball across the six yard box?


Let's gets Martins view on it in report. Fail to mention what happens in and around the build up the cross.

The arrogance in your post never ceases to amaze me


Your blind love of DJ prompts the same reaction.

Where is the arrogance in that post, and why isn’t everyone else who asked a question arrogant?


I don't have a blind love, just believe it's total over reaction from everyone because he isn't scoring.

If you cannot see how your post comes accross then there is no helping


They are words written on a screen, written no differently to anyone else’s. How you interpret them is up to you.

Happy to have a chat with anyone in person at a game or elsewhere and you would hopefully see that I am not an arrogant person.
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