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Clough interview post Harrogate

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Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Martin Shaw » Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:12 pm

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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Martin Shaw » Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:21 pm

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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby bigalstag1 » Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:35 pm

He can go on all night about injuries, playing players out of position, bad luck , etc. That this situation is down to him, his decisions on squad size, formations and playing aged players, he takes no responsibility for. To say there was any merit in that performance ,today, is an insult to anybody that was there and watching. Ninety nine percent of the game we were second best, and in some parts third best, against a team that had collected one win from the last fourteen games
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby broomo » Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:49 pm

bigalstag1 wrote:He can go on all night about injuries, playing players out of position, bad luck , etc. That this situation is down to him, his decisions on squad size, formations and playing aged players, he takes no responsibility for. To say there was any merit in that performance ,today, is an insult to anybody that was there and watching. Ninety nine percent of the game we were second best, and in some parts third best, against a team that had collected one win from the last fourteen games
.


Do you think any of Hawkins, Quinn, Swan or Akins could/should have scored and that's not taking into account the saves from Hartigan and Akins x 2.

I don't care how much stick I take, I'm glad I see things the same as a manager who has a better than 40% win rate over more than 1,000 games rather than a few forum posters. The only thing I saw differently was I didn't think George Maris played that well but I set him very high standards.

Nigel took responsibility for picking the wrong side so folk have to find a different stick than the usual "he never takes responsibility"

Again the reaction on here is laughable. We lost 3-0 so it must have been the worst performance ever?
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:58 pm

bigalstag1 wrote:He can go on all night about injuries, playing players out of position, bad luck , etc. That this situation is down to him, his decisions on squad size, formations and playing aged players, he takes no responsibility for. To say there was any merit in that performance ,today, is an insult to anybody that was there and watching. Ninety nine percent of the game we were second best, and in some parts third best, against a team that had collected one win from the last fourteen games
.

Third best ! I know we were terrible but third best ? How can that be ?
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:03 pm

bigalstag1 wrote:Ninety nine percent of the game we were second best.


You must have been watching a completely different game. Our defending was poor but we had 59% possession, 16 attempts on goal compared to Harrogate's 10, won 9 corners compared to Harrogate's 4 and a passing accuracy of 79% compared to Harrogate's 72%.

The Harrogate keeper made 2 great saves in the 1st half from Anthony Hartigan and Lucas Akins, Oli Hawkins missed an open goal from Anthony Hartigan's free kick in the 1st half, Stephen Quinn blasted over an open goal in the 2nd half, Lucas Akins' back heel hit a Harrogate player on the line and Will Swan hit the bar with the header when perhaps he should have scored.
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby AJStag » Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:13 pm

Well said Tippy. Too many on here out with their criticism.
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby AJStag » Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:13 pm

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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby wayno cordiniho » Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:15 pm

We’re not good enough in both boxes and I can’t see us improving short term. Need to get to Jan, sign a mobile CB
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:20 pm

He said he picked the wrong team and the defending was poor. What more do you want him to say ?
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby 1970Stag » Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:22 pm

We were abysmal defensively, but we were creative going forward. I've seen us play poorly and create nothing, this was not one of those games, all the chances have already been mentioned, and I was in the home end, and their fans were very worried if one went in, that more might! They also thought their gk was MOM not Armstrong. So it's a terrible defensive display, for which the blame lies at Clough's door, because this defence needed an update and he brought in harbottle, who isn't good enough, but to say we were 3rd best is quite clearly deluded.
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby bigalstag1 » Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:22 pm

Got to admit, that last sentence has put a smile on my face.
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:32 pm

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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:35 pm

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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Stagspur » Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:27 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
bigalstag1 wrote:Ninety nine percent of the game we were second best.


You must have been watching a completely different game. Our defending was poor but we had 59% possession, 16 attempts on goal compared to Harrogate's 10, won 9 corners compared to Harrogate's 4 and a passing accuracy of 79% compared to Harrogate's 72%.

The Harrogate keeper made 2 great saves in the 1st half from Anthony Hartigan and Lucas Akins, Oli Hawkins missed an open goal from Anthony Hartigan's free kick in the 1st half, Stephen Quinn blasted over an open goal in the 2nd half, Lucas Akins' back heel hit a Harrogate player on the line and Will Swan hit the bar with the header when perhaps he should have scored.


That I'd No more than expected, when you are 2-0 and 3-0 down , they managed to keep a clean sheet , I am sure that's what there manager would of asked for at H/T
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby oldweststander » Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:34 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
bigalstag1 wrote:Ninety nine percent of the game we were second best.


You must have been watching a completely different game. Our defending was poor but we had 59% possession, 16 attempts on goal compared to Harrogate's 10, won 9 corners compared to Harrogate's 4 and a passing accuracy of 79% compared to Harrogate's 72%.

The Harrogate keeper made 2 great saves in the 1st half from Anthony Hartigan and Lucas Akins, Oli Hawkins missed an open goal from Anthony Hartigan's free kick in the 1st half, Stephen Quinn blasted over an open goal in the 2nd half, Lucas Akins' back heel hit a Harrogate player on the line and Will Swan hit the bar with the header when perhaps he should have scored.


Stats being unwisely pushed again.

You say 16 attempts on goal, ok, how many goals?

59% of possession, super, how many goals?

Harrogate, 41% possession 3 goals.
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:38 am

oldweststander wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
bigalstag1 wrote:Ninety nine percent of the game we were second best.


You must have been watching a completely different game. Our defending was poor but we had 59% possession, 16 attempts on goal compared to Harrogate's 10, won 9 corners compared to Harrogate's 4 and a passing accuracy of 79% compared to Harrogate's 72%.

The Harrogate keeper made 2 great saves in the 1st half from Anthony Hartigan and Lucas Akins, Oli Hawkins missed an open goal from Anthony Hartigan's free kick in the 1st half, Stephen Quinn blasted over an open goal in the 2nd half, Lucas Akins' back heel hit a Harrogate player on the line and Will Swan hit the bar with the header when perhaps he should have scored.


Stats being unwisely pushed again.

You say 16 attempts on goal, ok, how many goals?

59% of possession, super, how many goals?

Harrogate, 41% possession 3 goals.



They aren't being unwisely pushed because he's replying to bigalstags comment about us being second best 99% of the game which isn't true. We weren't battered for 90 minutes, we just defended horribly in that first half. We had chances yesterday but we were obviously not clinical enough
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:57 am

16 attempts on goal. Conveniently omitting the shots on target stat. It was 4. 25% of our shots are on target

Harrogate had 10 shots with 6 on target. 60% of their shots were on target. That's your difference. The other difference is we let teams walz through us.

We actually had a higher xg that Harrogate. Harrogate 1.26 - 1.84 Mansfield. There is the fallacy of the xg stat. It counts every shot. We had nearly double the amount of shots as them but all got rated and added and made it look like we battered them and didn't deserve to lose or even draw.

They battered our defence in the first half. Didn't really have to in the 2nd half. They didn't need to they had a 3 goal lead.
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:15 am

gazza1988 wrote:16 attempts on goal. Conveniently omitting the shots on target stat. It was 4. 25% of our shots are on target

Harrogate had 10 shots with 6 on target. 60% of their shots were on target. That's your difference. The other difference is we let teams walz through us.

We actually had a higher xg that Harrogate. Harrogate 1.26 - 1.84 Mansfield. There is the fallacy of the xg stat. It counts every shot. We had nearly double the amount of shots as them but all got rated and added and made it look like we battered them and didn't deserve to lose or even draw.

They battered our defence in the first half. Didn't really have to in the 2nd half. They didn't need to they had a 3 goal lead.


This is true to an extent. Game state is very important and needs to be taken into account.

When a team is 2-0 down after twenty minutes, they more often than not outshoot the opposition. They will therefore usually have more possession and a higher xG. It would be a damning indictment of a team if they did not dominate the rest of the game when they need at least two goals with 70 mins to play.

With regards to xG counting every shot, why wouldn’t it?
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Rob » Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:23 am

bobbystagsfan wrote:
oldweststander wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
bigalstag1 wrote:Ninety nine percent of the game we were second best.


You must have been watching a completely different game. Our defending was poor but we had 59% possession, 16 attempts on goal compared to Harrogate's 10, won 9 corners compared to Harrogate's 4 and a passing accuracy of 79% compared to Harrogate's 72%.

The Harrogate keeper made 2 great saves in the 1st half from Anthony Hartigan and Lucas Akins, Oli Hawkins missed an open goal from Anthony Hartigan's free kick in the 1st half, Stephen Quinn blasted over an open goal in the 2nd half, Lucas Akins' back heel hit a Harrogate player on the line and Will Swan hit the bar with the header when perhaps he should have scored.


Stats being unwisely pushed again.

You say 16 attempts on goal, ok, how many goals?

59% of possession, super, how many goals?

Harrogate, 41% possession 3 goals.



They aren't being unwisely pushed because he's replying to bigalstags comment about us being second best 99% of the game which isn't true. We weren't battered for 90 minutes, we just defended horribly in that first half. We had chances yesterday but we were obviously not clinical enough


Why did we defend horribly Bobby? Has the penny dropped yet?

I think bizarrely we were the better side overall and with a couple of decent centre backs and a proper striker we'd have won that game comfortably, as we'd have won other games we've lost or drawn this season. It is Cloughs failure in the transfer window that is costing us, a squad too small means players forced to play when injured, players woefully exposed out of position and a few players now clearly past their best. He has the Jan window to correct this, we need 3 more players. If he doesn't take action and we finish 8th or lower then I think JR will have a decision to make in the summer. No way will this current squad win promotion, its far too slow and defensively far too weak.
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby Ralphy » Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:31 am

Yesterday was horrible to watch, defensively all over the place but we still made some good chances. Looking at the side two new centre half’s sorts it out with Hawkins going back up front with Oates and Swan either side in a 4-3-3, below would be ideal for me

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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:36 am

Never a foul on Akins for the second goal.
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:40 am

MTFCMusings wrote:Never a foul on Akins for the second goal.



To say Akins is a big-ish lad he doesn't half get pushed off the ball way too easy. I didn't think it was a foul at the time
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby stagmanrob » Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:49 am

Never a foul, it was just typical Akins being like bambi on ice and doing a terrible job of holding the ball up like he is meant to.
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Re: Clough interview post Harrogate

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:50 am

gazza1988 wrote:16 attempts on goal. Conveniently omitting the shots on target stat. It was 4. 25% of our shots are on target

Harrogate had 10 shots with 6 on target. 60% of their shots were on target. That's your difference. The other difference is we let teams walz through us.

We actually had a higher xg that Harrogate. Harrogate 1.26 - 1.84 Mansfield. There is the fallacy of the xg stat. It counts every shot. We had nearly double the amount of shots as them but all got rated and added and made it look like we battered them and didn't deserve to lose or even draw.

They battered our defence in the first half. Didn't really have to in the 2nd half. They didn't need to they had a 3 goal lead.


Shots on target is also a multi headed beast though. There were shots off target that the management team would have reasonably expected to be on target such as Quinn's and Hawkin's header.
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