What is Clough thinking?

[victor A block]

See the season out and get Clarke from Vale.

[bobbystagsfan]

See the season out and get Clarke from Vale.

Be an expensive acquisition with the contract he signed in the summer.

[Richard Cranium]

Clarke is adored at Vale, why would he leave that to come here and be hounded out in November for being 8th 1 point outside the play offs.

[part time pete]

We still have got seven more points than this time last season.

Do you think we'll win the next 7 games to maintain that gap Pete?

To be in the same place as last season after the eight game winning run (26 games and 44points), we need to win 4, draw two and lose one of the next seven games.

Following that run last year we only got six points from the following four games.

So we need 20 points from next 11 games to be on par where we where at the end of February last year.

With Oates back, I don’t think it is unreasonable.

[Steve North]

See the season out and get Clarke from Vale.

And why would Darrell Clarke leave a L1 team who he has just got promoted to go back to managing a L2 team ?

[bobbystagsfan]

See the season out and get Clarke from Vale.

And why would Darrell Clarke leave a L1 team who he has just got promoted to go back to managing a L2 team ?

It's not that outrageous I don't think. Many managers drop levels in their careers, plus it's his hometown club. I feel he will manage us at some point.

[yorkstag]

This is a massive over reaction from the usual suspects and those that only come out to play when things are going wrong. I don’t disagree with many of the comments but to sack NC would be madness and costly.
Clarke signed a 5 year deal in the summer so that won’t happen.
Just chill and all will be fine in the end

[arsene wengers coat]

By what yardstick will it be fine. As in just another horseshit season in L2.

There's nothing about us that's good at the moment.

If he's here in Jan, which I fully expect he will be, he has to get some.under 25s in, maybe 3 or 4 in key positions, I'd say CD, CF and winger /wingback

[scotsstag]

This is a massive over reaction from the usual suspects and those that only come out to play when things are going wrong. I don’t disagree with many of the comments but to sack NC would be madness and costly.
Clarke signed a 5 year deal in the summer so that won’t happen.
Just chill and all will be fine in the end

What's your definition of fine?
Also when is the end?

[JDW]

This is a massive over reaction from the usual suspects and those that only come out to play when things are going wrong. I don’t disagree with many of the comments but to sack NC would be madness and costly.
Clarke signed a 5 year deal in the summer so that won’t happen.
Just chill and all will be fine in the end

Overreaction? I get wanting to get behind the team and manager, honestly I get it.

Now is not one of those times and if you can’t recognise he is losing the absolute plot and has been since play off final, you’re beyond help.

That game was the biggest warning sign that you can’t win anything without width or pace. Vale had both and absolutely pumped us. Also a warning that you need to play players in their positions with Hawkins getting sent off. Didn’t learn from it, in fact his stubborn mindset took him the other way and now every week we are playing a bunch of misfits. Didn’t have a single defender on the pitch at Harrogate.

Recruitment has been a massive issue. Even more puzzling letting DJ, knowing Oates has had injury issues throughout his time her, go out on loan leaving us with no strikers whatsoever as he’s intent on playing Bowery at RB and Hawkins at CB. We have to work for every single goal, got nobody with pace to run behind or carry us up the pitch. Any team that sits in has a cigar on watching us pass side to side.

Wake up. Clough brought stability and he won’t bring much more.

[arsene wengers coat]

This is a massive over reaction from the usual suspects and those that only come out to play when things are going wrong. I don’t disagree with many of the comments but to sack NC would be madness and costly.
Clarke signed a 5 year deal in the summer so that won’t happen.
Just chill and all will be fine in the end

Overreaction? I get wanting to get behind the team and manager, honestly I get it.

Now is not one of those times and if you can’t recognise he is losing the absolute plot and has been since play off final, you’re beyond help.

That game was the biggest warning sign that you can’t win anything without width or pace. Vale had both and absolutely pumped us. Also a warning that you need to play players in their positions with Hawkins getting sent off. Didn’t learn from it, in fact his stubborn mindset took him the other way and now every week we are playing a bunch of misfits. Didn’t have a single defender on the pitch at Harrogate.

Recruitment has been a massive issue. Even more puzzling letting DJ, knowing Oates has had injury issues throughout his time her, go out on loan leaving us with no strikers whatsoever as he’s intent on playing Bowery at RB and Hawkins at CB. We have to work for every single goal, got nobody with pace to run behind or carry us up the pitch. Any team that sits in has a cigar on watching us pass side to side.

Wake up. Clough brought stability and he won’t bring much more.

Yyeeeeeaahh, it'll be fiiiiiiine. Just fine.

[StagInHucknall]

How come Clough never gives the kids a chance?
Isn’t the whole point of an academy that you utilise the talent coming through rather than playing lots of older players in unnatural positions.

[Steve North]

I don’t disagree with many of the things which are being talked about here. We are in a slump. A run of bad form. We don’t look great.

That said, I don’t agree with firing managers because of a run of poor form. Fans are entitled to their say, of course. However, since 2011, Clough is the 9th Manager at Mansfield Town. There’s this saying about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So we fire Clough, bring in someone new and they assemble their own squad of players and in 18 months we hit a run of bad results and we start the whole cycle again. History repeating itself. Hope reconfigured into despair and desperation.

But here’s my theory. Football fans have cultivated this mentality that demands so much in such little time. It is instant gratification mentality. Our minds have been hard wired into the concept of getting everything instantly whether that’s ordering food via Uber, credit to finance your car, or on demand television and streaming. Our minds are hard wired into this mentality. Which is all fine, but football doesn’t play by those rules.

In football, success is supposed to happen instantly. But this is a paradox of the mind. We all want Mansfield to be successful - but we should recognise that success is a journey, not a gift or destination. Where in the thick of all this desperation for success did fans stop thinking about the need to build something. Success is built through strong foundations, a decent plan and fans and owners who are capable of buying into that philosophy.

Successful football managers require time to plan and build things, to take advantage of marginal gains, to accept that there will be slumps in results (due to a whole raft of factors), and incrementally journey their teams to success.

The very nature of the business football has become has made this more difficult for teams and managers to establish success if every 18 months managers are being fired for a run of bad results.

Clough is in the midst of a bad run right now, but is the solution to this problem to revert to a strategy which has failed us for the past 10 years.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

When Darrell Clarke went on bereavement leave Port Vale were 9th in League 2 on 44 points. 5 points behind Mansfield Town with a game in hand. Their results improved when Assistant Manager, Andy Crosby, took over assisted by our own Adam Murray.

His win rate at Walsall was only 32.9%

[victor A block]

David Sharpe doesn't escape criticism here. Our recruitment has been horrendously unbalanced. Clough's 18 man squad approach should have been challenged from day 1. Every single club gets injuries every month and his just hasn't been factored in.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

Steve

MTFC are the longest continuous members of league 2 at the current point in time. We are not chasing instant success in fact quite the opposite and success is long overdue.

Mr Clough has received long and continued support from some passionate and dedicated fans who have followed him faithfully for two years. There is no denying that he has improved the club from the position it was in when he was first appointed but an improvement is sometimes not enough if it falls short of the stated aims. Last season most of us could see the problems he had inherited and how they were holding the club back. He was given both time and resources but ultimately the club came up short for obvious reasons which needed addressing. Not only haven’t they not been addressed but their appears to be no appetite to solve them meaning that we find ourselves going backwards and not much better off than at the starting point. Yes, I concede we have more points but the balance and performance of the team have dropped below acceptable standards and I feel that a top half finish is currently beyond us.

Many feel the reasons for this lie squarely on Nigel’s shoulders due to his recruitment policy and record.

Whilst being willing to give him another window, I don’t feel it unfair to question his tenure if things don’t improve. Whilst changing manager is not ideal, it is also futile to simply accept failure as an alternative to that change.

[Steve North]

Steve

MTFC are the longest continuous members of league 2 at the current point in time. We are not chasing instant success in fact quite the opposite and success is long overdue.

Mr Clough has received long and continued support from some passionate and dedicated fans who have followed him faithfully for two years. There is no denying that he has improved the club from the position it was in when he was first appointed but an improvement is sometimes not enough if it falls short of the stated aims. Last season most of us could see the problems he had inherited and how they were holding the club back. He was given both time and resources but ultimately the club came up short for obvious reasons which needed addressing. Not only haven’t they not been addressed but their appears to be no appetite to solve them meaning that we find ourselves going backwards and not much better off than at the starting point. Yes, I concede we have more points but the balance and performance of the team have dropped below acceptable standards and I feel that a top half finish is currently beyond us.

Many feel the reasons for this lie squarely on Nigel’s shoulders due to his recruitment policy and record.

Whilst being willing to give him another window, I don’t feel it unfair to question his tenure if things don’t improve. Whilst changing manager is not ideal, it is also futile to simply accept failure as an alternative to that change.

Completely understand mate. I am equally frustrated.

I think what I am trying to say is that one of the reasons we are one of the longest standing clubs in L2 is that we have generally followed a strategy of firing managers every 18 months or so, in the flawed belief that a new manager will deliver success. That strategy has not worked. We are resetting the clock every 18 months without rebuilding.

I think questions should be asked of Clough - absolutely. And Clough and his team should be accountable. The issues we all saw last season need to be addressed.

But I can’t see how changing the manager will result in something different. It hasn’t in the past 10 years. What will be different this time. Maybe we will ‘get lucky’ at some point with this strategy during the next 20 years or so and we will get a promotion. That will be an expensive promotion.

Whilst we are starting from scratch every 18 months, the concept of ‘building’ success through a journey is a lost opportunity.

[YellaFella 75]

Same old same old, have a bad run of form so sack the manager, whilst I don't agree with some of his formations/tactics at times is sacking him the solution? Get someone else in and six months down the line after a bad run of form it'll be same again and people will be saying we were better off under Cloughie. We are 8th in the league, no more needs saying

[Rob]

I think you are mistaking unhappiness with Clough with wanting him sacked, I don't think many want him sacked and I suspect if we did a poll the vast majority would give him this season. However, if we don't make the play-offs due to a failure by the manager to fix the blindingly obvious squad weaknesses, then I think the majority would not be offering him a new contract when his current one expires in the summer.

Just sign some centre backs fgs!

[yorkshire stag]

Steve

MTFC are the longest continuous members of league 2 at the current point in time. We are not chasing instant success in fact quite the opposite and success is long overdue.

Mr Clough has received long and continued support from some passionate and dedicated fans who have followed him faithfully for two years. There is no denying that he has improved the club from the position it was in when he was first appointed but an improvement is sometimes not enough if it falls short of the stated aims. Last season most of us could see the problems he had inherited and how they were holding the club back. He was given both time and resources but ultimately the club came up short for obvious reasons which needed addressing. Not only haven’t they not been addressed but their appears to be no appetite to solve them meaning that we find ourselves going backwards and not much better off than at the starting point. Yes, I concede we have more points but the balance and performance of the team have dropped below acceptable standards and I feel that a top half finish is currently beyond us.

Many feel the reasons for this lie squarely on Nigel’s shoulders due to his recruitment policy and record.

Whilst being willing to give him another window, I don’t feel it unfair to question his tenure if things don’t improve. Whilst changing manager is not ideal, it is also futile to simply accept failure as an alternative to that change.

i agree, everyone’s makes mistakes it’s learning from them that counts, he isn’t !!

same problems as last season

[MTFCMusings]

Seasons in charge for L2 managers (Last 20) before promotion :

Rob Edwards - 1
Matt Taylor - 4
Joey Barton - 1.5 (1 L2 season)
Darrell Clarke - 1.5
Michael Duff - 3
Mark Bonner - 1.5
Ian Evatt - 1
Derek Adams - 1.5
Richie Wellens - 1.5
Dave Artell - 3.5
Ryan Lowe - 1
Keith Curle - 1.5
Danny Cowley - 3 (2 in L2)
Ryan Lowe - 1.5 (1 in L2)
Paul Tisdale - 1
Mickey Mellon - 2.5 (1 in L2)
John Coleman - 4
Nathan Jones - 2.5
Gareth Ainsworth - 6
Mark Robins - 1.5 (1 in L2)

Total :

Mean : 2
Median : 1.5
Mode : 1.5

In L2 :

Mean : 2
Median : 1.5
Mode : 1

[arsene wengers coat]

I don’t disagree with many of the things which are being talked about here. We are in a slump. A run of bad form. We don’t look great.

That said, I don’t agree with firing managers because of a run of poor form. Fans are entitled to their say, of course. However, since 2011, Clough is the 9th Manager at Mansfield Town. There’s this saying about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So we fire Clough, bring in someone new and they assemble their own squad of players and in 18 months we hit a run of bad results and we start the whole cycle again. History repeating itself. Hope reconfigured into despair and desperation.

But here’s my theory. Football fans have cultivated this mentality that demands so much in such little time. It is instant gratification mentality. Our minds have been hard wired into the concept of getting everything instantly whether that’s ordering food via Uber, credit to finance your car, or on demand television and streaming. Our minds are hard wired into this mentality. Which is all fine, but football doesn’t play by those rules.

In football, success is supposed to happen instantly. But this is a paradox of the mind. We all want Mansfield to be successful - but we should recognise that success is a journey, not a gift or destination. Where in the thick of all this desperation for success did fans stop thinking about the need to build something. Success is built through strong foundations, a decent plan and fans and owners who are capable of buying into that philosophy.

Successful football managers require time to plan and build things, to take advantage of marginal gains, to accept that there will be slumps in results (due to a whole raft of factors), and incrementally journey their teams to success.

The very nature of the business football has become has made this more difficult for teams and managers to establish success if every 18 months managers are being fired for a run of bad results.

Clough is in the midst of a bad run right now, but is the solution to this problem to revert to a strategy which has failed us for the past 10 years.

Urgh this mentality. Good managers get results. Simple. However. Think there's more to this. Love to know how many clubs have been in the conference and in L1 since we we got back into the league.

Looking at the bigger picture it's a really poor. All I'd say it that despite us not getting promoted and several managers being backed financially, is it the sole problem. It's the.choice of manager, lack of identity and maybe.our senior leadership team.

Each manager has been allowed to fail, set up to fail in some cases. Ask Dempster.

So many clubs have done better than us with far less over the last 10 years.

Clough needs to do better, but the club needs to be run better to make cloughs job to succeed easier.

[MTFCMusings]

David Sharpe doesn't escape criticism here. Our recruitment has been horrendously unbalanced. Clough's 18 man squad approach should have been challenged from day 1. Every single club gets injuries every month and his just hasn't been factored in.

Why should Sharpe be criticised? He’s not part of the identifying signings.

When he was part of it, we signed some good players (Maris, Lapslie, McLaughlin, Clarke, O’Keefe)

[Tippy Tappy Football]

Good research Sam

The following stand out:
Gareth Ainsworth - 6
John Coleman - 4
Matt Taylor - 4
Michael Duff - 3
Nathan Jones - 2.5

They are still doing pretty well as a group
Premier League - 1
The Championship - 4
League 1 - 9
League 2 - 3
Out Of Work - 2

[MTFCMusings]

Good research Sam

The following stand out:
Gareth Ainsworth - 6
John Coleman - 4
Matt Taylor - 4
Michael Duff - 3
Nathan Jones - 2.5

They are still doing pretty well as a group
Premier League - 1
The Championship - 4
League 1 - 9
League 2 - 3
Out Of Work - 2

Thanks.

And also 16/20 of the clubs promoted have not been back to L2 since, as it stands (one of the 16 was Bury though)