Should we extend Clough’s contract

[Big yella]

I'm sure I'll feel better in a couple of weeks but right now I'm starting to not care if he renews or not and it's not down to the fact I think he's not up to the job.

I'm not enjoying the experience of coming on here anymore, the constant whiners currently have ammunition to slate him, but they've always done that and too many others turn too quickly.

I'm sure there'll be a lot of responses saying you lot aren't enjoying his management style either, so all in all maybe a fresh face and new manager would be best for fans all round. Proper and temporary.

So, you're saying that you think he's out of his depth?

This is where I repeat my post about me being careful about different posters having different intelligence levels.

Insulting others views and its only your views what count .

The only good point of Clough leaving would be you and bear disappearing over the horizon.

[bigalstag1]

Amen

[Kernow]

Need to stabilise, too many mistakes over the years. Let him finish the job.

[adamstag]

Need to stabilise, too many mistakes over the years. Let him finish the job.

Agreed, as i correctly pointed out the other night all you’ve got to do is to look at the previous 2 managers to realise that chopping and changing wouldn’t work and we’ve got to stick with someone from longer (maybe a bit of a lesson learnt myself also) i can’t see what we’d gain from it.

Maybe there should be a more frank discussion between manager and owners about transfer activity though as it’s been frankly dire under clough.

[MTFCMusings]

Personally think the stability thing is a bit of a myth, but that’s not a reason not to give Clough a new contract. Should purely be based on whether objectives are reached and the reasons surrounding why.

[georgefostersbeard]

Personally think the stability thing is a bit of a myth, but that’s not a reason not to give Clough a new contract. Should purely be based on whether objectives are reached and the reasons surrounding why.

There have been a few studies into it. This one from the early 00s is out of date as football has changed so much https://www.professormarkvanvugt.com/images/files/DoesStabilityFosterTeamPerformance.pdf

But this one from a few years ago looks at the impact of squad stability https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/pdf/mr34en.pdf

I disagree in that i think stability is important but it is because changing managers reduces the stability within a club. Removing a manager and promoting from within can work well by keeping the squad or it can lead to the disastrous experiment with John Dempster. So the point for me is whether the stability is predicated on maintained a largely positive movement. Clough is as frustrating as hell and makes it hard to champion him at times but things are largely moving forwards well particularly when his small squad is fully fit

[MTFCMusings]

I think it can help but not the be all and end all. For example, three of four managers promoted last season were in their first full season with their respective club.

Stability and time should be earned by a manager doing a good job, which to me is meeting objectives and constantly improving.

[Amber Andy]

I think it can help but not the be all and end all. For example, three of four managers promoted last season were in their first full season with their respective club.

Stability and time should be earned by a manager doing a good job, which to me is meeting objectives and constantly improving.

I think that is reasonable. So far NC has met that criteria. Of course history has shown JR has not always followed that principle.

[georgefostersbeard]

I think it can help but not the be all and end all. For example, three of four managers promoted last season were in their first full season with their respective club.

Stability and time should be earned by a manager doing a good job, which to me is meeting objectives and constantly improving.

I suspect that the key is club stability which doesn't necessarily limit itself to managers. Appointing managers with a similar ethos would be one example

[MTFCMusings]

I think it can help but not the be all and end all. For example, three of four managers promoted last season were in their first full season with their respective club.

Stability and time should be earned by a manager doing a good job, which to me is meeting objectives and constantly improving.

I suspect that the key is club stability which doesn't necessarily limit itself to managers. Appointing managers with a similar ethos would be one example

Yes I agree that club stability is important, which is why I would like us to have a proper structure in place at the club and an agreed ethos, rather than a manager that calls all the shots re recruitment etc, but that’s not something that a traditional manager like Clough would agree to.

[adamstag]

I think it can help but not the be all and end all. For example, three of four managers promoted last season were in their first full season with their respective club.

Stability and time should be earned by a manager doing a good job, which to me is meeting objectives and constantly improving.

I suspect that the key is club stability which doesn't necessarily limit itself to managers. Appointing managers with a similar ethos would be one example

you’d think that’s the role of a director of football - and we have one. Transfer dealings are without doubts cloughs biggest achilles heel

[SeanieStag]

He’s had 2 years and we’re still L2 mid-table mediocrity. Maybe that’s where we belong. We’ve had managers who are “the next big thing” and those who are “experienced and covered in glory”. We’ve even promoted our own and still here we are, mainly mid-table with the odd flirtation with promotion and relegation. Maybe we just need to suck it up and accept it……..or maybe the grass really is greener and the next one will finally do it. It’s a battle between safe, steady stability and ut-throat chaos. Almost like a fight between Batman and Joker. In the end, although we all love Batman and believe in what he stands for, we all want to watch the Joker because he’s entertaining. Do us fans want to see Stags safe and steady in L2 for another 20 years, treading water? Or do they want to deal the cards, see their hand, go all in and gamble the lot? All or nothing?

[Amber Andy]

He’s had 2 years and we’re still L2 mid-table mediocrity. Maybe that’s where we belong. We’ve had managers who are “the next big thing” and those who are “experienced and covered in glory”. We’ve even promoted our own and still here we are, mainly mid-table with the odd flirtation with promotion and relegation. Maybe we just need to suck it up and accept it……..or maybe the grass really is greener and the next one will finally do it. It’s a battle between safe, steady stability and ut-throat chaos. Almost like a fight between Batman and Joker. In the end, although we all love Batman and believe in what he stands for, we all want to watch the Joker because he’s entertaining. Do us fans want to see Stags safe and steady in L2 for another 20 years, treading water? Or do they want to deal the cards, see their hand, go all in and gamble the lot? All or nothing?

Still L2 mid-table mediocrity......... really ?

Who would you trust with a gamble ?

[MTFCMusings]

I think it can help but not the be all and end all. For example, three of four managers promoted last season were in their first full season with their respective club.

Stability and time should be earned by a manager doing a good job, which to me is meeting objectives and constantly improving.

I suspect that the key is club stability which doesn't necessarily limit itself to managers. Appointing managers with a similar ethos would be one example

you’d think that’s the role of a director of football - and we have one. Transfer dealings are without doubts cloughs biggest achilles heel

Technically we don’t have a director of football, David Sharpe is Chief Exec.

[bobbystagsfan]

He’s had 2 years and we’re still L2 mid-table mediocrity. Maybe that’s where we belong. We’ve had managers who are “the next big thing” and those who are “experienced and covered in glory”. We’ve even promoted our own and still here we are, mainly mid-table with the odd flirtation with promotion and relegation. Maybe we just need to suck it up and accept it……..or maybe the grass really is greener and the next one will finally do it. It’s a battle between safe, steady stability and ut-throat chaos. Almost like a fight between Batman and Joker. In the end, although we all love Batman and believe in what he stands for, we all want to watch the Joker because he’s entertaining. Do us fans want to see Stags safe and steady in L2 for another 20 years, treading water? Or do they want to deal the cards, see their hand, go all in and gamble the lot? All or nothing?

I mean, it is really.

I've been a supporter for nearly 25 years, I've seen us play in league one once, non league five years and the rest in league two. We have pretty much always been a mid table league two side.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

He’s had 2 years and we’re still L2 mid-table mediocrity. Maybe that’s where we belong. We’ve had managers who are “the next big thing” and those who are “experienced and covered in glory”. We’ve even promoted our own and still here we are, mainly mid-table with the odd flirtation with promotion and relegation. Maybe we just need to suck it up and accept it……..or maybe the grass really is greener and the next one will finally do it. It’s a battle between safe, steady stability and ut-throat chaos. Almost like a fight between Batman and Joker. In the end, although we all love Batman and believe in what he stands for, we all want to watch the Joker because he’s entertaining. Do us fans want to see Stags safe and steady in L2 for another 20 years, treading water? Or do they want to deal the cards, see their hand, go all in and gamble the lot? All or nothing?

I mean, it is really.

I've been a supporter for nearly 25 years, I've seen us play in league one once, non league five years and the rest in league two. We have pretty much always been a mid table league two side.

Only during your time as a supporter. Us old gits simply can’t accept that’s our level as we’ve seen much better. Maybe that’s why we are so critical of the situation we find ourselves in and are impatient for better.

[bobbystagsfan]

He’s had 2 years and we’re still L2 mid-table mediocrity. Maybe that’s where we belong. We’ve had managers who are “the next big thing” and those who are “experienced and covered in glory”. We’ve even promoted our own and still here we are, mainly mid-table with the odd flirtation with promotion and relegation. Maybe we just need to suck it up and accept it……..or maybe the grass really is greener and the next one will finally do it. It’s a battle between safe, steady stability and ut-throat chaos. Almost like a fight between Batman and Joker. In the end, although we all love Batman and believe in what he stands for, we all want to watch the Joker because he’s entertaining. Do us fans want to see Stags safe and steady in L2 for another 20 years, treading water? Or do they want to deal the cards, see their hand, go all in and gamble the lot? All or nothing?

I mean, it is really.

I've been a supporter for nearly 25 years, I've seen us play in league one once, non league five years and the rest in league two. We have pretty much always been a mid table league two side.

Only during your time as a supporter. Us old gits simply can’t accept that’s our level as we’ve seen much better. Maybe that’s why we are so critical of the situation we find ourselves in and are impatient for better.

Maybe we should.

So would you say we're a league one team? I'm not trying to be arsey or start an argument. It is frustrating being stuck in L2 when we've seen teams jump from conference to league one in two seasons and it feels like we can't get out of this league no matter what we do.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

He’s had 2 years and we’re still L2 mid-table mediocrity. Maybe that’s where we belong. We’ve had managers who are “the next big thing” and those who are “experienced and covered in glory”. We’ve even promoted our own and still here we are, mainly mid-table with the odd flirtation with promotion and relegation. Maybe we just need to suck it up and accept it……..or maybe the grass really is greener and the next one will finally do it. It’s a battle between safe, steady stability and ut-throat chaos. Almost like a fight between Batman and Joker. In the end, although we all love Batman and believe in what he stands for, we all want to watch the Joker because he’s entertaining. Do us fans want to see Stags safe and steady in L2 for another 20 years, treading water? Or do they want to deal the cards, see their hand, go all in and gamble the lot? All or nothing?

I mean, it is really.

I've been a supporter for nearly 25 years, I've seen us play in league one once, non league five years and the rest in league two. We have pretty much always been a mid table league two side.

Only during your time as a supporter. Us old gits simply can’t accept that’s our level as we’ve seen much better. Maybe that’s why we are so critical of the situation we find ourselves in and are impatient for better.

Maybe we should.

So would you say we're a league one team? I'm not trying to be arsey or start an argument. It is frustrating being stuck in L2 when we've seen teams jump from conference to league one in two seasons and it feels like we can't get out of this league no matter what we do.

At the moment we are a league 2 team only on the pitch. That’s not for the want of trying or investment in the team. We also have some of the best supporters in the lower league and the ethos of investment in youth probably also deserves better. Our facilities are league 1.

We have some of the best players in the league as individuals but unfortunately the team isn’t balanced which is why we are where we are. So yes our current team is league two standard but with only minor additions could hold it’s own in league 1 meaning we shouldn’t give up and accept mediocrity.

[SeanieStag]

He’s had 2 years and we’re still L2 mid-table mediocrity. Maybe that’s where we belong. We’ve had managers who are “the next big thing” and those who are “experienced and covered in glory”. We’ve even promoted our own and still here we are, mainly mid-table with the odd flirtation with promotion and relegation. Maybe we just need to suck it up and accept it……..or maybe the grass really is greener and the next one will finally do it. It’s a battle between safe, steady stability and ut-throat chaos. Almost like a fight between Batman and Joker. In the end, although we all love Batman and believe in what he stands for, we all want to watch the Joker because he’s entertaining. Do us fans want to see Stags safe and steady in L2 for another 20 years, treading water? Or do they want to deal the cards, see their hand, go all in and gamble the lot? All or nothing?

I mean, it is really.

I've been a supporter for nearly 25 years, I've seen us play in league one once, non league five years and the rest in league two. We have pretty much always been a mid table league two side.

Only during your time as a supporter. Us old gits simply can’t accept that’s our level as we’ve seen much better. Maybe that’s why we are so critical of the situation we find ourselves in and are impatient for better.

Maybe we should.

So would you say we're a league one team? I'm not trying to be arsey or start an argument. It is frustrating being stuck in L2 when we've seen teams jump from conference to league one in two seasons and it feels like we can't get out of this league no matter what we do.

At the moment we are a league 2 team only on the pitch. That’s not for the want of trying or investment in the team. We also have some of the best supporters in the lower league and the ethos of investment in youth probably also deserves better. Our facilities are league 1.

We have some of the best players in the league as individuals but unfortunately the team isn’t balanced which is why we are where we are. So yes our current team is league two standard but with only minor additions could hold it’s own in league 1 meaning we shouldn’t give up and accept mediocrity.

That’s the thing though, it’s all ifs and buts. We’ve always got a piece of the jigsaw missing.

[PaulG]

We may have some of the best supporters in the lower leagues, as borne out by our fantastic away support, but we don't have enough of them. I went to my first match at Field Mill in the spring of 1963, just as we were promoted to the old Third Division. I was ten. So, subconsciously, I think of us as a Third Division (or Division 1) club, but have a look at Division 1 today. The top nine clubs are all so much bigger than us in terms of support and therefore in terms of income. Not far behind them in terms of support, there's Lincoln, Oxford United and Bristol Rovers. In budgetary terms, therefore, we would be bottom half which, unless we were heavily subsidised and brilliantly managed, would mean perpetual struggle. That's a situation I'd be happy to go along with, because you never know; we might get lucky. The question is, would our support in general go along with it, or would the season ticket sales fall off a cliff within a couple of seasons?

[Amber Andy]

I suspect whatever league we were in we would have the same doom merchants.

[cassellswasmagic]

We may have some of the best supporters in the lower leagues, as borne out by our fantastic away support, but we don't have enough of them. I went to my first match at Field Mill in the spring of 1963, just as we were promoted to the old Third Division. I was ten. So, subconsciously, I think of us as a Third Division (or Division 1) club, but have a look at Division 1 today. The top nine clubs are all so much bigger than us in terms of support and therefore in terms of income. Not far behind them in terms of support, there's Lincoln, Oxford United and Bristol Rovers. In budgetary terms, therefore, we would be bottom half which, unless we were heavily subsidised and brilliantly managed, would mean perpetual struggle. That's a situation I'd be happy to go along with, because you never know; we might get lucky. The question is, would our support in general go along with it, or would the season ticket sales fall off a cliff within a couple of seasons?

I’ve never thought of us as anything other than completely rubbish. Anything better is a bonus. I’d support my team in whatever league…it’s my hometown club and beats watching the tv, supporting a team I’d never watch in the flesh!!!

[Suttonian]

We may have some of the best supporters in the lower leagues, as borne out by our fantastic away support, but we don't have enough of them. I went to my first match at Field Mill in the spring of 1963, just as we were promoted to the old Third Division. I was ten. So, subconsciously, I think of us as a Third Division (or Division 1) club, but have a look at Division 1 today. The top nine clubs are all so much bigger than us in terms of support and therefore in terms of income. Not far behind them in terms of support, there's Lincoln, Oxford United and Bristol Rovers. In budgetary terms, therefore, we would be bottom half which, unless we were heavily subsidised and brilliantly managed, would mean perpetual struggle. That's a situation I'd be happy to go along with, because you never know; we might get lucky. The question is, would our support in general go along with it, or would the season ticket sales fall off a cliff within a couple of seasons?

I’ve never thought of us as anything other than completely rubbish. Anything better is a bonus. I’d support my team in whatever league…it’s my hometown club and beats watching the tv, supporting a team I’d never watch in the flesh!!!

This conversation went on for ages this summer
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40481
Overall since 1931 we've been a 3rd division team, for the last 30 years there's only been the odd season here and there where we haven't been mediocre in the 4th division

[cassellswasmagic]

We may have some of the best supporters in the lower leagues, as borne out by our fantastic away support, but we don't have enough of them. I went to my first match at Field Mill in the spring of 1963, just as we were promoted to the old Third Division. I was ten. So, subconsciously, I think of us as a Third Division (or Division 1) club, but have a look at Division 1 today. The top nine clubs are all so much bigger than us in terms of support and therefore in terms of income. Not far behind them in terms of support, there's Lincoln, Oxford United and Bristol Rovers. In budgetary terms, therefore, we would be bottom half which, unless we were heavily subsidised and brilliantly managed, would mean perpetual struggle. That's a situation I'd be happy to go along with, because you never know; we might get lucky. The question is, would our support in general go along with it, or would the season ticket sales fall off a cliff within a couple of seasons?

I’ve never thought of us as anything other than completely rubbish. Anything better is a bonus. I’d support my team in whatever league…it’s my hometown club and beats watching the tv, supporting a team I’d never watch in the flesh!!!

This conversation went on for ages this summer
https://www.stagsnet.net/phpBB3/viewtop ... =8&t=40481
Overall since 1931 we've been a 3rd division team, for the last 30 years there's only been the odd season here and there where we haven't been mediocre in the 4th division

Our all time average is around 80th (half way in division 4 or League two as it is now). Pretty much sums us up really. Top 7 is good imo, looking at that.

[five to three]

He’s had 2 years and we’re still L2 mid-table mediocrity. Maybe that’s where we belong. We’ve had managers who are “the next big thing” and those who are “experienced and covered in glory”. We’ve even promoted our own and still here we are, mainly mid-table with the odd flirtation with promotion and relegation. Maybe we just need to suck it up and accept it……..or maybe the grass really is greener and the next one will finally do it. It’s a battle between safe, steady stability and ut-throat chaos. Almost like a fight between Batman and Joker. In the end, although we all love Batman and believe in what he stands for, we all want to watch the Joker because he’s entertaining. Do us fans want to see Stags safe and steady in L2 for another 20 years, treading water? Or do they want to deal the cards, see their hand, go all in and gamble the lot? All or nothing?

I mean, it is really.

I've been a supporter for nearly 25 years, I've seen us play in league one once, non league five years and the rest in league two. We have pretty much always been a mid table league two side.

Only during your time as a supporter. Us old gits simply can’t accept that’s our level as we’ve seen much better. Maybe that’s why we are so critical of the situation we find ourselves in and are impatient for better.

Maybe we should.

So would you say we're a league one team? I'm not trying to be arsey or start an argument. It is frustrating being stuck in L2 when we've seen teams jump from conference to league one in two seasons and it feels like we can't get out of this league no matter what we do.

At the moment we are a league 2 team only on the pitch. That’s not for the want of trying or investment in the team. We also have some of the best supporters in the lower league and the ethos of investment in youth probably also deserves better. Our facilities are league 1.

We have some of the best players in the league as individuals but unfortunately the team isn’t balanced which is why we are where we are. So yes our current team is league two standard but with only minor additions could hold it’s own in league 1 meaning we shouldn’t give up and accept mediocrity.

Our toilets are non-league standard!