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Is Nigel really that good??

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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:54 am

broomo wrote:
S7AGS wrote:One signing would calm everyone down, a proven finisher to play with Oates (hard to come by hence why we haven’t signed one yet)… it’s not my cash but it’s the sort of make or break signing we need so on paper warrants us pushing the boat out a bit… the first 3 games as well as cup game we have dominated attacks, chances and corners but never really look like actually scoring… we really could/should be top after 3 games and sat in R2 of carabao based on clear cut chances…
Johnny needs to pull rank here I think if it’s a case of Clough/sharpe not wanting to go over budget… it’ll cost a lot more to do a full rebuild again next summer when we finish mid-table


Do you really think it would be Sharpe and Clough saying no to extra budget and JR needs to push them to ask for more cash?


Not wanting to be controversial here Broomo but just seeking clarity. Are you saying that Nigel has spent all of his available budget?

I know he said none in until someone goes out but he also said they were pursuing a target and there have been some mixed messages. I am also aware that JR has, in the past, been less than truthful with fans when it comes to budget levels and has overstated the amount of funds available to a manager.

I would be very surprised if Nigel has spent up at this point but if true could explain a lot.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby bobbystagsfan » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:55 am

S7AGS wrote:One signing would calm everyone down, a proven finisher to play with Oates (hard to come by hence why we haven’t signed one yet)… it’s not my cash but it’s the sort of make or break signing we need so on paper warrants us pushing the boat out a bit… the first 3 games as well as cup game we have dominated attacks, chances and corners but never really look like actually scoring… we really could/should be top after 3 games and sat in R2 of carabao based on clear cut chances…
Johnny needs to pull rank here I think if it’s a case of Clough/sharpe not wanting to go over budget… it’ll cost a lot more to do a full rebuild again next summer when we finish mid-table



Not if? :roll:
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby broomo » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:13 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
broomo wrote:
S7AGS wrote:One signing would calm everyone down, a proven finisher to play with Oates (hard to come by hence why we haven’t signed one yet)… it’s not my cash but it’s the sort of make or break signing we need so on paper warrants us pushing the boat out a bit… the first 3 games as well as cup game we have dominated attacks, chances and corners but never really look like actually scoring… we really could/should be top after 3 games and sat in R2 of carabao based on clear cut chances…
Johnny needs to pull rank here I think if it’s a case of Clough/sharpe not wanting to go over budget… it’ll cost a lot more to do a full rebuild again next summer when we finish mid-table


Do you really think it would be Sharpe and Clough saying no to extra budget and JR needs to push them to ask for more cash?


Not wanting to be controversial here Broomo but just seeking clarity. Are you saying that Nigel has spent all of his available budget?

I know he said none in until someone goes out but he also said they were pursuing a target and there have been some mixed messages. I am also aware that JR has, in the past, been less than truthful with fans when it comes to budget levels and has overstated the amount of funds available to a manager.

I would be very surprised if Nigel has spent up at this point but if true could explain a lot.


I don't know if he's spent it all and I'd never ask, or expect an answer to that question.

I hope not.

Maybe he was confident (or at least hopeful) that the squad was strong enough to wait until Jan and then revisit it.

Maybe injuries have brought the need forward? I's say much depends on how long Hawkins and Akins are out.

It certainly won't be down to playing style as I think apart from 45 mins at Salford we've looked very good indeed. We're a gnats chuff away from really clicking.

I must stress I'm only guessing but I've gone from expecting no more ins unless someone leaves, to thinking we may be pushing for one more in irrespective.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby tillydog123 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:53 am

Vice President wrote:Nigel is an excellent manager at this level - as was Flitcroft. They both just missed out on promotion in their first full season.
It’s a shame we didn’t stick with Flitcroft at the time. We will learn from that and give Nigel a fair chance.
This is a long term project, and whilst I question some of his decisions - I wouldn’t want to swap him for anyone else right now.


Good post and probably the most accurate. My marker would be that you would have expected a more positive start than we have had as last seasons start was a learning curve already

Problem is its a very long wait for those like me who have following and watching Stags for year and years when they played Reading in the lower league and that awful ground Elm Park !!
Still waiting and looks like being a long wait and even longer than Forest back in the Premiership esp when we are still travelling to grounds like Sutton Utd and Harrogate!!

Hope I can live long enough along with JR lol !!
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby pemill » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:05 pm

The football we have played against Derby and Orient has been worthy of a win, you can't legislate for hitting the bar and the opposing GK having a blinder of a game. The game I was most disappointed with was Salford but first game of the season at home is always an advantage.

Two consecutive home games now, lets get right behind NC and the team.

Any talk about getting rid of NC is utter nonsense at this stage and shows the mentality of football in general these days, promotion isn't achieved in the first 3 games of the season, even if we weren't playing teams off the park I would still be patient at this stage.

I do question some of NC's ideas at times but he has got a decent track record.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby Old timer » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:21 pm

We have played well in the majority of the 4 games but not got the rub of the green. If we had played badly in 4 games I would be worried but we haven't so I'm still hopeful.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:44 pm

pemill wrote:The football we have played against Derby and Orient has been worthy of a win, you can't legislate for hitting the bar and the opposing GK having a blinder of a game. The game I was most disappointed with was Salford but first game of the season at home is always an advantage.

Two consecutive home games now, lets get right behind NC and the team.

Any talk about getting rid of NC is utter nonsense at this stage and shows the mentality of football in general these days, promotion isn't achieved in the first 3 games of the season, even if we weren't playing teams off the park I would still be patient at this stage.

I do question some of NC's ideas at times but he has got a decent track record.


Can we please stop this suggestion that fans are calling for Nigel to be sacked.

In all of these discussions on various threads I haven’t seen anyone call for his head and most have been very adamant that he shouldn’t be.

Being disappointed with the squad doesn’t mean we want the manager sacked. It’s a discussion forum.

I’m sorry for quoting you Pemill but yours is the latest in a long line of similar posts and the accusations are just wrong.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby bobbystagsfan » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:46 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
pemill wrote:The football we have played against Derby and Orient has been worthy of a win, you can't legislate for hitting the bar and the opposing GK having a blinder of a game. The game I was most disappointed with was Salford but first game of the season at home is always an advantage.

Two consecutive home games now, lets get right behind NC and the team.

Any talk about getting rid of NC is utter nonsense at this stage and shows the mentality of football in general these days, promotion isn't achieved in the first 3 games of the season, even if we weren't playing teams off the park I would still be patient at this stage.

I do question some of NC's ideas at times but he has got a decent track record.


Can we please stop this suggestion that fans are calling for Nigel to be sacked.

In all of these discussions on various threads I haven’t seen anyone call for his head and most have been very adamant that he shouldn’t be.

Being disappointed with the squad doesn’t mean we want the manager sacked. It’s a discussion forum.

I’m sorry for quoting you Pemill but yours is the latest in a long line of similar posts and the accusations are just wrong.



When threads like these pop up, it usually isn't long before things like that are said though.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby stagmanrob » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:10 pm

If Macca buried from twelve yards on Saturday, and Oates tucked either of his chances away, this thread wouldn't exist.

Goalscorers for us in the past tended to miss a fair few opportunities, and go on a barren run.

Ones that immediately come to mind are Micky Boulding and Iyseden Christie, they could fluff a few easy looking chances when their confidence was a bit shot.

I personally believe Oates is more than capable of goals, he just could do with one going in any which way to get that monkey off his back. The longer this goes on, the more pressure he's putting himself under, as well as us lot piling it on him too.

But I've always said Stags fans have severe short memories. When we had Coughlan we were abysmal, same with Dempster. They weren't amending anything though to try and change the terrible results.

With Cloughie, we haven't had a great start, but the football has been fantastic to watch. Who honestly thought we'd go to Orient and outplay them? I know I didn't.

The only issue I do forsee is that for all my confidence that Oates is capable and will get goals, he is the only one.
He doesn't seem 100% to me right now, and if he gets injured for any length of time, we're in a mess in terms of being a goal threat.

Please, if you're questioning whether Clough is any good though.....

Just compare the football to Coughlan.

Chalk and cheese.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby stag324 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:19 am

To answer the original question -Yes he is

Most fans are getting frustrated because we haven’t signed the talisman striker or solid defender that we have needed throughout Cloughs reign.

Why, only Clough knows and until a journalist asks him we will never know.

I truly believe if we had those two players we would go up as champions, as we are we should just scrape the play offs again
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby yorkshire stag » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:25 am

stag324 wrote:To answer the original question -Yes he is

Most fans are getting frustrated because we haven’t signed the talisman striker or solid defender that we have needed throughout Cloughs reign.

Why, only Clough knows and until a journalist asks him we will never know.

I truly believe if we had those two players we would go up as champions, as we are we should just scrape the play offs again


couldn’t have put it better myself!

why doesn’t one ask him ?
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby MTFCMusings » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:42 am

Attacking wise I think it’s a bit early to be getting worried. I’d be more worried if we weren’t creating plenty of chances.

The defence seems to be more of a problem, but on the flip side we’ve not been able to start with the same back three/two so far. Hopefully the defence will improve with a little more consistency in the line up.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby ST4GS » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:23 am

MTFCMusings wrote:Attacking wise I think it’s a bit early to be getting worried. I’d be more worried if we weren’t creating plenty of chances.

The defence seems to be more of a problem, but on the flip side we’ve not been able to start with the same back three/two so far. Hopefully the defence will improve with a little more consistency in the line up.
The defence is conceding on average one goal per game in league games. If extrapolated through the season would be only 46 goals conceeded which would be brilliant. We are dominating good teams but one aspect only is failing. Start taking chances created and we will find ourselves in the top three in no time at all.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby Martin Shaw » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:28 am

yorkshire stag wrote:
stag324 wrote:To answer the original question -Yes he is

Most fans are getting frustrated because we haven’t signed the talisman striker or solid defender that we have needed throughout Cloughs reign.

Why, only Clough knows and until a journalist asks him we will never know.

I truly believe if we had those two players we would go up as champions, as we are we should just scrape the play offs again


couldn’t have put it better myself!

why doesn’t one ask him ?

I wrote this in my Tranmere report:
A word on the signing of Hartigan, a midfielder from AFC Wimbledon. Some fans have questioned why the signing of a midfielder and not a forward. Nigel Clough clarified in midweek when asked about signings: "Ideally we'd like another forward player. The owners put in a couple of substantial bids for strikers. We weren't successful."
So having been unsuccessful bringing in a quality striker, but with a quality midfielder being available in Hartigan, the choice between signing a striker for the sake of it or bringing in a player in a different position, but who is a high quality and will add to the quality of the squad, I think became one that clearly came down on the side of signing Hartigan.

Clough then said again yesterday on areas for possible transfers: "We've got our eye on one or two forward players. It's the forward area we are short."

In other words, he hasn't been able to sign a striker who he thinks is good enough to improve the squad. The strikers he wants who he put in bids for, the other clubs have turned down "substantial bids".

I put in my Leyton Orient report:
The Stags were missing Hawkins, Akins and Bowery today through injury and suspension. Nevertheless, scoring just one goal in 3 league games having created a lot of chances does I think highlight that the Stags could do with another quality striker in the squad. Nigel Clough clarified just over a week ago when asked about signings: "Ideally we'd like another forward player. The owners put in a couple of substantial bids for strikers. We weren't successful."
Clough then added on Tuesday that “ideally we are trying to get one player in” (without specifying the position). I do think the Stags could benefit enormously over the course of the season from a quality striker coming in. However it’s another matter finding a striker of sufficient quality. The transfer window closes at the end of August.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby broomo » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:07 am

yorkshire stag wrote:
stag324 wrote:To answer the original question -Yes he is

Most fans are getting frustrated because we haven’t signed the talisman striker or solid defender that we have needed throughout Cloughs reign.

Why, only Clough knows and until a journalist asks him we will never know.

I truly believe if we had those two players we would go up as champions, as we are we should just scrape the play offs again


couldn’t have put it better myself!

why doesn’t one ask him ?


Every single interview he's asked about transfer targets and every single interview he either states his target positions or explains his thinking behind not bringing anyone in.

Yesterdays interview he explained that he thinks the midfield is strong, the defence has enough cover now Perch and Wallace are back and the only area he feels we are slightly light is up top.

He is asked and he does answer, you and others just don't like his answers, which you're entitled to do.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby yorkshire stag » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:39 am

broomo wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:
stag324 wrote:To answer the original question -Yes he is

Most fans are getting frustrated because we haven’t signed the talisman striker or solid defender that we have needed throughout Cloughs reign.

Why, only Clough knows and until a journalist asks him we will never know.

I truly believe if we had those two players we would go up as champions, as we are we should just scrape the play offs again


couldn’t have put it better myself!

why doesn’t one ask him ?


Every single interview he's asked about transfer targets and every single interview he either states his target positions or explains his thinking behind not bringing anyone in.

Yesterdays interview he explained that he thinks the midfield is strong, the defence has enough cover now Perch and Wallace are back and the only area he feels we are slightly light is up top.

He is asked and he does answer, you and others just don't like his answers, which you're entitled to do.


we can see with our own eyes that we are a quality CB short, yes we have “cover” but cover isn’t good enough for promotion, we came so close last season & neither the CB or striker positions have been strengthened / improved enough to push on !

In a nut shell that’s why we are frustrated, cover is all well & good however improvement is what’s needed, & frustratingly by keep buying midfield players good/better or whatever isn’t strengthening those two key areas, it’s the hope that kills us.

Our fans are so desperate for promotion & last season we came so so close, that’s why we find it so frustrating that they are not being addressed with “improved”
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby stag324 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:57 am

broomo wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:
stag324 wrote:To answer the original question -Yes he is

Most fans are getting frustrated because we haven’t signed the talisman striker or solid defender that we have needed throughout Cloughs reign.

Why, only Clough knows and until a journalist asks him we will never know.

I truly believe if we had those two players we would go up as champions, as we are we should just scrape the play offs again


couldn’t have put it better myself!

why doesn’t one ask him ?


Every single interview he's asked about transfer targets and every single interview he either states his target positions or explains his thinking
behind not bringing anyone in.

Yesterdays interview he explained that he thinks the midfield is strong, the defence has enough cover now Perch and Wallace are back and the only area he feels we are slightly light is up top.

He is asked and he does answer, you and others just don't like his answers, which you're entitled to do.



He is never asked challenging questions though is he?

i.e. Every week you bemoan players for making mistakes, do you think we need a player to come into the back line who can take control of the players and stop the mistakes?

Oates does not look fully fit, is he?

What happens if Oates gets injured?

What has been the stumbling block for bringing in a centre forward?

Our interviewees are powder puff at best
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby MTFCMusings » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:33 am

We already know Oates is carrying a knock from the opening game at Salford.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby bobbystagsfan » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:38 am

stag324 wrote:
broomo wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:
stag324 wrote:To answer the original question -Yes he is

Most fans are getting frustrated because we haven’t signed the talisman striker or solid defender that we have needed throughout Cloughs reign.

Why, only Clough knows and until a journalist asks him we will never know.

I truly believe if we had those two players we would go up as champions, as we are we should just scrape the play offs again


couldn’t have put it better myself!

why doesn’t one ask him ?


Every single interview he's asked about transfer targets and every single interview he either states his target positions or explains his thinking
behind not bringing anyone in.

Yesterdays interview he explained that he thinks the midfield is strong, the defence has enough cover now Perch and Wallace are back and the only area he feels we are slightly light is up top.

He is asked and he does answer, you and others just don't like his answers, which you're entitled to do.



He is never asked challenging questions though is he?

i.e. Every week you bemoan players for making mistakes, do you think we need a player to come into the back line who can take control of the players and stop the mistakes?

Oates does not look fully fit, is he?

What happens if Oates gets injured?

What has been the stumbling block for bringing in a centre forward?

Our interviewees are powder puff at best


It's funny that no one cares about this sort of stuff if we're doing well but are absolutely frothing over needing their questions answering every week when we aren't winning.
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby stag324 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:26 am

bobbystagsfan wrote:
stag324 wrote:
broomo wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:
stag324 wrote:To answer the original question -Yes he is

Most fans are getting frustrated because we haven’t signed the talisman striker or solid defender that we have needed throughout Cloughs reign.

Why, only Clough knows and until a journalist asks him we will never know.

I truly believe if we had those two players we would go up as champions, as we are we should just scrape the play offs again


couldn’t have put it better myself!

why doesn’t one ask him ?


Every single interview he's asked about transfer targets and every single interview he either states his target positions or explains his thinking
behind not bringing anyone in.

Yesterdays interview he explained that he thinks the midfield is strong, the defence has enough cover now Perch and Wallace are back and the only area he feels we are slightly light is up top.

He is asked and he does answer, you and others just don't like his answers, which you're entitled to do.



He is never asked challenging questions though is he?

i.e. Every week you bemoan players for making mistakes, do you think we need a player to come into the back line who can take control of the players and stop the mistakes?

Oates does not look fully fit, is he?

What happens if Oates gets injured?

What has been the stumbling block for bringing in a centre forward?

Our interviewees are powder puff at best


It's funny that no one cares about this sort of stuff if we're doing well but are absolutely frothing over needing their questions answering every week when we aren't winning.


I am not frothing, I just want someone to challenge Nigel in a constructive way in an interview and ask the questions that need to be asked.

Also, why would you ask these questions if Oates had scored 3, other players had scored a few, mistakes wasn't being made and we had won 4 out 4?

The reality is NC gets a very easy ride from our local and in house media teams
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby bobbystagsfan » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:07 pm

Do other managers get given a hard time by their local press when they aren't doing well? Genuine question
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby stagmanrob » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:36 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:Do other managers get given a hard time by their local press when they aren't doing well? Genuine question

Dave Rhodes used to hammer David Holdsworth.

Don't think we've had anyone local do it like that since really
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby bear 73 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:54 pm

Oh this post bites the biscuit, every negative poster says if Clough does not sign a Forward or some say a defender we will not be promoted.
What do they know about promotion when did their opinions get Mansfield promoted.
Wrong questions wow, the media team know one mistake in their question and a sharpe reply will follow, full of facts.
Look at opinions on here after all the changes and records broken, how many are the same that questioned his ability last season.
So far our home record has been not good, but exeptionally good,
While the negatives moan this man has done evrything asked of him Sharpe said we want to be challenging at the right end of the table.
And it would take 3-4 years for the avademy to produce on a regular basis
which this club needs players from the aceademy to help our resourses.
From Bishop sreet stand to many areas the club must improve, and it all takes money.
Any gift of a million quid would get you that player by the wekend, J-C-Radford have a budget to run to.
I can see a Wembley play off final in his first full season, and his stature of seen it all before, and calmness about him when some are losing their heads.
Clough is really that good,
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby Captain Cunno » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:51 pm

Here he is :lol:
These are my opinions , if you don't like them I have others...
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Re: Is Nigel really that good??

Postby Nutty Stag » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:21 pm

Simple fact for you Bear - if you do not score more goals than the opposition you don't win matches which then means you don't get success. This season we have a record amount of season ticket holders who want to see a side that is winning games and hopefully see a promotion. Yes it's good that most of the football is good to watch but that means nothing if we don't get points on the board.
At this early part of the season it appears that NC is sticking to his guns regarding squad size and this already is having a negative impact - players playing injured, players having to play who are lacking in fitness and match practice. We are already struggling to name a full team and bench, forgive me but did we come unstuck when injuries and suspensions kicked in last season. It's plain to see that we are short of players and this needs addressing to give the club a chance.

I admit that my opinions and management haven't contributed to any promotions but my money and support have for over forty years and I don't want the club to miss out due to a lesson that we should have learned from last season.
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