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Stagsnet report - Derby League Cup

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Stagsnet report - Derby League Cup

Postby Martin Shaw » Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:59 pm

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Old timer » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:41 pm

Martin, I take your point about our disallowed goal and some others have alluded to the fact that we might not all be as clued up as we think we are about the rules in those situations but we have all seen them given. If she did get it right what rankles is that its probably one of the few times she did make the correct decision so it's sods law that its when we score! Anyway, can't complain about our lad's efforts and it was a memorable game, time to move on.

We will have to get revenge in the pizza cup and hopefully we get a better set of officials.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Rob » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:08 pm

The confusion over this is due to a law interpretation when in a Man City v Villa game a defender tried to control a long ball, a clearly offside striker won the ball from him, scored and VAR allowed the goal. If Swan was in an offside position when the shot was made, regardless of the deflection, he is offside and then is rightly penalised when the ball falls to him in the same passage of play. In other words, the Assistant was correct, as she probably was with Derbys goal.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55814673
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:38 pm

my detailed report now on
https://stagsnet.net/match/reports/view ... tchid=1170

If you read the original report, you only need to read down from "DETAILED REPORT:"
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Bradders » Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:27 pm

It's probably better to use the term "assistant referee" rather than "lineswoman". I think that the linesman/lineswoman name went out of use in 1996. Obviously, supporters can use whatever version they like, but in a match report the outdated term looks a bit clunky.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Rob » Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:57 pm

Bradders wrote:It's probably better to use the term "assistant referee" rather than "lineswoman". I think that the linesman/lineswoman name went out of use in 1996. Obviously, supporters can use whatever version they like, but in a match report the outdated term looks a bit clunky.


I agree, they are Assistant Referee's or AR's and it makes no difference whether they are male of female. It changed a long time ago. I will again add that the AR got the two major decisions absolutely right, I've not seen replays of the other decisions, but it is fair to say that the AR was right and the fans were wrong. Of course, not one of them will admit it.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby gazza1988 » Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:51 am

I usually use lino. May also be a bit informal for a report though :D
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:12 am

I've changed it on this occasion. I've got no intention of routinely removing any reference to "linesman" in future though as it is a well-used phrase and I will continue to use a mixture.

By the way, while you can argue the assistant referee got the decision right on the Swan offside, I don't think she did. When Swan got the ball, she clearly kept her flag down, I was looking to see. When Hawkins got the ball, she raised her flag. Hawkins was not offside. Swan had been. It may be that the referee said into her earpiece that Swan was offside and she then raised her flag late.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Bradders » Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:20 am

Martin Shaw wrote:I've changed it on this occasion. I've got no intention of routinely removing any reference to "linesman" in future though as it is a well-used phrase and I will continue to use a mixture.

By the way, while you can argue the assistant referee got the decision right on the Swan offside, I don't think she did. When Swan got the ball, she clearly kept her flag down, I was looking to see. When Hawkins got the ball, she raised her flag. Hawkins was not offside. Swan had been. It may be that the referee said into her earpiece that Swan was offside and she then raised her flag late.

From your report it sounds like Swan should indeed have been deemed offside. The point is that deflections, rebounds and saves from the defending players don't count as a pass. So if Swan was in an offside position, the deflection and save doesn't give him immunity from being offside. If the goalkeeper had saved the shot and then intentionally cleared the ball, then it would have been different matter.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... 20opponent
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:56 am

Bradders wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:I've changed it on this occasion. I've got no intention of routinely removing any reference to "linesman" in future though as it is a well-used phrase and I will continue to use a mixture.

By the way, while you can argue the assistant referee got the decision right on the Swan offside, I don't think she did. When Swan got the ball, she clearly kept her flag down, I was looking to see. When Hawkins got the ball, she raised her flag. Hawkins was not offside. Swan had been. It may be that the referee said into her earpiece that Swan was offside and she then raised her flag late.

From your report it sounds like Swan should indeed have been deemed offside. The point is that deflections, rebounds and saves from the defending players don't count as a pass. So if Swan was in an offside position, the deflection and save doesn't give him immunity from being offside. If the goalkeeper had saved the shot and then intentionally cleared the ball, then it would have been different matter.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... 20opponent


in my post here, I am talking about when Hawkins was flagged offside on 62 minutes (when Swan should have been).

I think you are replying about when Swan was flagged offside after 46 minutes.

Slightly confusing.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Bradders » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:13 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
Bradders wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:I've changed it on this occasion. I've got no intention of routinely removing any reference to "linesman" in future though as it is a well-used phrase and I will continue to use a mixture.

By the way, while you can argue the assistant referee got the decision right on the Swan offside, I don't think she did. When Swan got the ball, she clearly kept her flag down, I was looking to see. When Hawkins got the ball, she raised her flag. Hawkins was not offside. Swan had been. It may be that the referee said into her earpiece that Swan was offside and she then raised her flag late.

From your report it sounds like Swan should indeed have been deemed offside. The point is that deflections, rebounds and saves from the defending players don't count as a pass. So if Swan was in an offside position, the deflection and save doesn't give him immunity from being offside. If the goalkeeper had saved the shot and then intentionally cleared the ball, then it would have been different matter.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... 20opponent


in my post here, I am talking about when Hawkins was flagged offside on 62 minutes (when Swan should have been).

I think you are replying about when Swan was flagged offside after 46 minutes.

Slightly confusing.

Sorry yes, I should have made more clear that it was meant to help with the section in the match report where you are unsure about the offside decision in the case of a shot that is deflected and saved and then picked up by an offside player.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:36 pm

well... I don't think it is straightforward. Odurah deliberately stretched to block the ball ...

a reminder of this incident:

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:14 pm

better late than never ... my player ratings from Mansfield's game against Derby County on Tuesday

https://stagsnet.net/match/reports/view ... tchid=1170
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby The One » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:37 pm

Who was MOM
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:42 pm

The One wrote:Who was MOM

it's in the report, just above running tally of various stats
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Bradders » Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:35 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:well... I don't think it is straightforward. Odurah deliberately stretched to block the ball ...

I haven't seen the incident. I was going on your match report, which differs from that:
His shot deflected off defender Kwaku Oduroh and the keeper parried it away. It came to Swan who tucked the rebound into the net

If it was a deflection then save, clearly Swan would be offside. If it was a block (of a shot off target), then Swan wouldn't be offside. Only trying to help, you did say that you didn't understand the new offside details.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:44 pm

It was both: Oduroh stretched to try to block the shot, it deflected off him, the keeper parried, Swan knocked in the rebound.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:50 pm

I think, based on the Dermot Gallagher analysis, it should be onside, as the defender tried to clear the ball. However, it is clearly a very murky area.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Rob » Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:01 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:I think, based on the Dermot Gallagher analysis, it should be onside, as the defender tried to clear the ball. However, it is clearly a very murky area.


I would say 95% of referee assistants would flag that offside, the other 5% would have missed it. The law was changed last year to prevent the Man City v Villa scenario, whilst slightly different this falls into the same category - ie he is quite clearly offside. Gallagher is just earning a few quid, some of his stuff on Sky is embarrassing for someone who was once a very good referee.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:50 am

there was a similar incident for Tranmere's second goal against us last season, when Perch stretched to block the pass forward and didn't get enough on it to stop it. The officials deemed that Nevitt was therefore onside and allowed the goal to stand. I changed my opinion during the discussion on Stagsnet and eventually concluded in my report that the officials got it right on that occasion. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39835&p=940495&hilit=Nevitt#p940495
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Rob » Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:24 am

Martin Shaw wrote:there was a similar incident for Tranmere's second goal against us last season, when Perch stretched to block the pass forward and didn't get enough on it to stop it. The officials deemed that Nevitt was therefore onside and allowed the goal to stand. I changed my opinion during the discussion on Stagsnet and eventually concluded in my report that the officials got it right on that occasion. https://stagsnet.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.p ... tt#p940495


Yes, the FA sent out guidance after the amendment to the law, this said:

Where a player in an offside position immediately impacts on an opponent who has deliberately played the ball, the match officials should prioritise challenging an opponent for the ball, and thus the offside offence of 'interfering with an opponent by impacting on the opponent's ability to play the ball' should be penalised


It could be argued that a player in an offside position did impact Perch, he probably knew the player was there hence his attempt to intercept the ball. It didn't however, impact his ability to play the ball, it just made him do it. I think this law is an ass and is pretty much ignored by most officials. On occasions when it is not given offside it will almost certainly be because the Assistant missed it, as was undoubtedly the case at Tranmere. Post match officials can then point to the law to say they knew it was offside all along :lol:

99% of instances like Tranmere will continue to be flagged.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby scotsstag » Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:26 am

Martin Shaw wrote:It was both: Oduroh stretched to try to block the shot, it deflected off him, the keeper parried, Swan knocked in the rebound.

Martin would it not be fair to say that if he stretched to try and block a shot and it deflected off him then he did as a matter of fact actually block it. Albeit only slightly?
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