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Re: New ticket system

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:12 pm

Pre sales? Does that mean a few thousand paid on the day?
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Re: New ticket system

Postby adamstag » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:14 pm

So what happens if there was (god forbid) a fire.

Several thousand folk may or may not have been evacuated from the ground!? :lol:

So the attendance was 5,300 but we’re basically lying and saying it was 7,100.
Last edited by adamstag on Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Marky Mark » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:16 pm

Rob wrote:So Martin, given the club have not previously included non-attending fans in an attendance it makes a bit if a mockery of our attendance comparisons. I know for absolute certain that the announced crowd has been previously based on "clicks", I assume that has now changed? Doesn't seem right to me, it is called "attendance" for a reason :lol:


If the split from Saturday is typical, then to get attendees rather than payees reduce the club figure by 25%
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Rob » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:20 pm

Marky Mark wrote:
Rob wrote:So Martin, given the club have not previously included non-attending fans in an attendance it makes a bit if a mockery of our attendance comparisons. I know for absolute certain that the announced crowd has been previously based on "clicks", I assume that has now changed? Doesn't seem right to me, it is called "attendance" for a reason :lol:


If the split from Saturday is typical, then to get attendees rather than payees reduce the club figure by 25%


It won't be, it will be much bigger in August and reduce thereafter. I'd have thought Martin will be on the case, if not, we'll have attendance records pre-2021/22 and ticket sales records from this season. On the Spireite thread many were critical of Chesterfield for doing the same thing last season.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby adamstag » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:26 pm

Rob wrote:
Marky Mark wrote:
Rob wrote:So Martin, given the club have not previously included non-attending fans in an attendance it makes a bit if a mockery of our attendance comparisons. I know for absolute certain that the announced crowd has been previously based on "clicks", I assume that has now changed? Doesn't seem right to me, it is called "attendance" for a reason :lol:


If the split from Saturday is typical, then to get attendees rather than payees reduce the club figure by 25%


It won't be, it will be much bigger in August and reduce thereafter. I'd have thought Martin will be on the case, if not, we'll have attendance records pre-2021/22 and ticket sales records from this season. On the Spireite thread many were critical of Chesterfield for doing the same thing last season.


And they were right to be, it’s wrong

The crowd will clearly need to know how many are actually there for fire hazards etc, so why not just announce that?

Or like the actual attendance and the fake attendance?
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Re: New ticket system

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:36 pm

adamstag wrote:
Rob wrote:
Marky Mark wrote:
Rob wrote:So Martin, given the club have not previously included non-attending fans in an attendance it makes a bit if a mockery of our attendance comparisons. I know for absolute certain that the announced crowd has been previously based on "clicks", I assume that has now changed? Doesn't seem right to me, it is called "attendance" for a reason :lol:


If the split from Saturday is typical, then to get attendees rather than payees reduce the club figure by 25%


It won't be, it will be much bigger in August and reduce thereafter. I'd have thought Martin will be on the case, if not, we'll have attendance records pre-2021/22 and ticket sales records from this season. On the Spireite thread many were critical of Chesterfield for doing the same thing last season.


And they were right to be, it’s wrong

The crowd will clearly need to know how many are actually there for fire hazards etc, so why not just announce that?

Or like the actual attendance and the fake attendance?


Can't do both, it would just sound like "we sold 7000 tickets for this game, but only 5000 bothered to show up."
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Stag95 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:40 pm

adamstag wrote:
Rob wrote:
Marky Mark wrote:
Rob wrote:So Martin, given the club have not previously included non-attending fans in an attendance it makes a bit if a mockery of our attendance comparisons. I know for absolute certain that the announced crowd has been previously based on "clicks", I assume that has now changed? Doesn't seem right to me, it is called "attendance" for a reason :lol:


If the split from Saturday is typical, then to get attendees rather than payees reduce the club figure by 25%


It won't be, it will be much bigger in August and reduce thereafter. I'd have thought Martin will be on the case, if not, we'll have attendance records pre-2021/22 and ticket sales records from this season. On the Spireite thread many were critical of Chesterfield for doing the same thing last season.


And they were right to be, it’s wrong

The crowd will clearly need to know how many are actually there for fire hazards etc, so why not just announce that?

Or like the actual attendance and the fake attendance?

It’s standard practice by most clubs now. For the fire hazards they’re not gonna have everyone stand in a line and do a headcount anyway like we’re in primary school.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:46 pm

I think it would be very easy to check if someone has stayed behind. You'd kind of notice them in the stands or on the concourse.

I would wager that the club will report to the police the amount of "clicks" (as shown by the FOI request).

We basically say how many paid to attend the game.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Rob » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:51 pm

Stag95 wrote:
adamstag wrote:
Rob wrote:
Marky Mark wrote:
Rob wrote:So Martin, given the club have not previously included non-attending fans in an attendance it makes a bit if a mockery of our attendance comparisons. I know for absolute certain that the announced crowd has been previously based on "clicks", I assume that has now changed? Doesn't seem right to me, it is called "attendance" for a reason :lol:


If the split from Saturday is typical, then to get attendees rather than payees reduce the club figure by 25%


It won't be, it will be much bigger in August and reduce thereafter. I'd have thought Martin will be on the case, if not, we'll have attendance records pre-2021/22 and ticket sales records from this season. On the Spireite thread many were critical of Chesterfield for doing the same thing last season.


And they were right to be, it’s wrong

The crowd will clearly need to know how many are actually there for fire hazards etc, so why not just announce that?

Or like the actual attendance and the fake attendance?

It’s standard practice by most clubs now. For the fire hazards they’re not gonna have everyone stand in a line and do a headcount anyway like we’re in primary school.


They have to know how many people are in the ground for safety reasons, this won't change, so there'll always be two figures, the attendance and the ticket sales. Previously we have used the attendance as the attendance. As I said, the only real implication is you will not be able to make a meaningful comparison between attendances this season and those in previous seasons. No big deal I suppose but I'd guess statisticians might be a bit emotional about it :lol:
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Ralphy » Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:52 pm

I’ve often heard the attendance announced and then wondered what I would do in the event of a fire!!
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:05 pm

adamstag wrote:So what happens if there was (god forbid) a fire.

Several thousand folk may or may not have been evacuated from the ground!? :lol:

So the attendance was 5,300 but we’re basically lying and saying it was 7,100.

the safety officer knows exactly how many people are in the stadium
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:07 pm

Rob wrote:
Marky Mark wrote:
Rob wrote:So Martin, given the club have not previously included non-attending fans in an attendance it makes a bit if a mockery of our attendance comparisons. I know for absolute certain that the announced crowd has been previously based on "clicks", I assume that has now changed? Doesn't seem right to me, it is called "attendance" for a reason :lol:


If the split from Saturday is typical, then to get attendees rather than payees reduce the club figure by 25%


It won't be, it will be much bigger in August and reduce thereafter. I'd have thought Martin will be on the case, if not, we'll have attendance records pre-2021/22 and ticket sales records from this season. On the Spireite thread many were critical of Chesterfield for doing the same thing last season.

obviously it creates an issue comparing across seasons, but like all good statisticians I can use footnotes and explanations!
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Re: New ticket system

Postby 88BenM » Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:27 pm

I spoke with Chris Revill in the pub yesterday. He told me that the figure he announced was told to him via a phone call from Alan Lakin.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Bradders » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:12 pm

Rob wrote:So Martin, given the club have not previously included non-attending fans in an attendance it makes a bit if a mockery of our attendance comparisons. I know for absolute certain that the announced crowd has been previously based on "clicks", I assume that has now changed? Doesn't seem right to me, it is called "attendance" for a reason :lol:

Yes, it sounds like the "attendance" now includes people who didn't attend.
If this figure is going to be used all the time, I suggest we give up taking any notice of it. It's nonsense. There can be a "ticket sales" figure, if the club wants some sort of indication, but if the actual attendance is going to be kept secret then ticket sales is no substitute.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Scothie the Stag » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:14 pm

Thought that may have been the case. I did think that there was more than 5,300, but not as many as 7,100.

Personally I think it would be great if we could regularly get both figures. Both show demand in their own ways.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Dan » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:25 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:the safety officer knows exactly how many people are in the stadium


88BenM wrote:I spoke with Chris Revill in the pub yesterday. He told me that the figure he announced was told to him via a phone call from Alan Lakin.


Whoops! :D
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Rob » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:32 pm

Scothie the Stag wrote:Thought that may have been the case. I did think that there was more than 5,300, but not as many as 7,100.

Personally I think it would be great if we could regularly get both figures. Both show demand in their own ways.


I think 5300 was right, indeed your old seat was empty as were a large number of others in our block.

I don't see why the club can't publish both, there will always be lots of ST holders missing in Aug but that number will drop considerably.

As Bradders says, the new "attendance" figure is nonsense and artificially inflates our gates. It also cannot be called "attendance" that would be a blatant lie!
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Re: New ticket system

Postby adamstag » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:16 pm

Rob wrote:
Scothie the Stag wrote:Thought that may have been the case. I did think that there was more than 5,300, but not as many as 7,100.

Personally I think it would be great if we could regularly get both figures. Both show demand in their own ways.


I think 5300 was right, indeed your old seat was empty as were a large number of others in our block.

I don't see why the club can't publish both, there will always be lots of ST holders missing in Aug but that number will drop considerably.

As Bradders says, the new "attendance" figure is nonsense and artificially inflates our gates. It also cannot be called "attendance" that would be a blatant lie!


exactly right, it’s a farce.

How can you actually count folk that aren’t there? it’s ridiculous :lol:

Why lie about attendance figures which aren’t correct.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby part time pete » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:22 pm

Interesting that club are now saying attendance is ticket sale numbers.

It will be interesting how many free child tickets have been ‘sold’. I know of folk ‘buying’ an extra free child season ticket next to their seat knowing the child will not attend so that mates who only come to some games in season can by a ticket anywhere in stand but still sit with their mate.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby stagmanrob » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:24 pm

I might see if I can get away with this at work.

Clock in and clock out, but actually go home inbetween.

It technically says I attended, so......
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Re: New ticket system

Postby adamstag » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:37 pm

stagmanrob wrote:I might see if I can get away with this at work.

Clock in and clock out, but actually go home inbetween.

It technically says I attended, so......


exactly.

sadly there will be instances where someone’s “attended” but sadly is no longer with us. Imagine being counted after you’ve moved upstairs :shock:

I look forward to attending every home match this season

What happens with ifollow for instance, as i’m already at the game when i’m not, do i still need to pay for it?

Does that then get counted twice?

I appreciate i’m probably picking faults for the sake of it but it’s ridiculous, just announce those who are there for Christ's sake
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Rob » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:44 pm

adamstag wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:I might see if I can get away with this at work.

Clock in and clock out, but actually go home inbetween.

It technically says I attended, so......


exactly.

sadly there will be instances where someone’s “attended” but sadly is no longer with us. Imagine being counted after you’ve moved upstairs :shock:

I look forward to attending every home match this season


Yes sadly/happily I'm away next Tues night so my seat will be empty (bar the shiny new reserved sticker), however, I can rest easy knowing that as far as the club are concerned I will actually be there :lol: The fact other clubs do it doesn't make it right.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby adamstag » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:46 pm

Rob wrote:
adamstag wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:I might see if I can get away with this at work.

Clock in and clock out, but actually go home inbetween.

It technically says I attended, so......


exactly.

sadly there will be instances where someone’s “attended” but sadly is no longer with us. Imagine being counted after you’ve moved upstairs :shock:

I look forward to attending every home match this season


Yes sadly/happily I'm away next Tues night so my seat will be empty (bar the shiny new reserved sticker), however, I can rest easy knowing that as far as the club are concerned I will actually be there :lol: The fact other clubs do it doesn't make it right.


Exactly, “my mate jumped over a cliff” so therefore i should, erm….

As you say, i’ll see you there :lol:
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Re: New ticket system

Postby stagmanrob » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:29 pm

part time pete wrote:Interesting that club are now saying attendance is ticket sale numbers.

It will be interesting how many free child tickets have been ‘sold’. I know of folk ‘buying’ an extra free child season ticket next to their seat knowing the child will not attend so that mates who only come to some games in season can by a ticket anywhere in stand but still sit with their mate.

Don't know how true this is, but I heard a murmur that when Chesterfield hand out their free tickets like confetti to school kids (which they do, they regularly try this with my kid's school) these figures are added to their attendance whether they are fully taken up or not.
They then offer adult tickets at a fiver each, which need to be taken up if these kids want to go for free as they need an adult to take them.
These fivers taken from parents are then classed as "donations" to the charitable trust than run them.
They can then claim gift aid on top of this to double the income.

Like I said though, don't know how true this is, just something I've heard.

But us doing what we criticised them doing for years, I don't agree with.
It shouldn't be called "attendance" if we carry on doing so.
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Re: New ticket system

Postby Bros » Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:09 am

This has implications for the prediction league . I wonder if Pete can tell us how many people got close to the quoted "attendance" . We're all going to have to increase our predictions if this practice continues
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