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Do we actually need another centre back

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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Dan » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:22 am

No worries mate I wasn’t expecting you to.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby yorkshire stag » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:59 am

Richard Cranium wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:our defence isn’t good enough quality wise, this will come back to bite us


Well that's that then. Season ticket for sale £200. Paid £325


You think it is, please discuss?
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Spiritater » Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:22 am

Richard Cranium wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:our defence isn’t good enough quality wise, this will come back to bite us


Well that's that then. Season ticket for sale £200. Paid £325


I'll tek it off your hands for a couple of pints in t'Patey later on. But with our defence lacking a proper CB we'll lose every game this season so 200 notes is far too much.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Billy the fish » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:00 am

Spiritater wrote:
Richard Cranium wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:our defence isn’t good enough quality wise, this will come back to bite us


Well that's that then. Season ticket for sale £200. Paid £325


I'll tek it off your hands for a couple of pints in t'Patey later on. But with our defence lacking a proper CB we'll lose every game this season so 200 notes is far too much.


Buy it for NC tater he can then sit in the stands and see what we all can see a quality CB and Forward needed asap .
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:47 am

broomo wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Firstly I don’t think Harbottle is here as backup.

I wouldn’t count Hewitt as he would be my first choice right back/wing back. I think Nigel is also not sure about Gordon certainly at right back. That really only leaves you one absentee if you are playing with 3 centre backs which is the position most likely to pick up suspensions. If Macca is injured you could well need Hewitt on that side of the pitch.

A good solid centre half would plug any gaps and should add much needed pace if Harbottle isn’t on the pitch. Hawkins would be my back up and could also cover if Oates is injured. So get the right centre half and a number of potential problems have a solution.


We already have the solutions to a number of potential problems.

Look, I was as angry and disappointed as anyone else at Hawkins after the PO final but to suggest he's anything other than a key player for us is ludicrous, we seem to be forgetting he was an integral part of the team that went on to show not only promotion but title winning form from Tranmere onwards.

For all the talk of him struggling with pace, how often did we get beaten by a team who tore us apart through the middle? Add to that he weighed in with the odd goal here and there and I just don't get the disrespect he's been shown.

I'd have him in my team alongside O'Toole whichever formation we played.


Broomo, I don’t know how many times I have to say this but my dislike for Hawkins at centre back has absolutely nothing to do with the display at Wembley. I have been critical of the player months before then but also acknowledge if he has a good game. I openly concede that he is our best defender when balls are launched into the box and someone has to get a head on it. Unfortunately it’s the rest of his game that make him unsuitable as a TOP centre half. He is not just slow but is yards behind players who run past him and this often results in free kicks in dangerous areas if he’s even close enough to foul the player in the first place. He loses concentration and is often too far from his man should a ball come through.

Todays game is being played increasingly on the floor and I’m sure we will see far fewer hoof teams at our level this season. That is why we need a king pin centre half who is not only reasonable but excels in those situations.

I don’t think I am being disrespectful to a player merely by discussing his plus and minus points on a fan’s forum as we do it with every player we watch including opponents. I haven’t called Hawkins names nor would I do so.

I concede that Nigel has faith in Hawkins and has changed his preferred formation to allow for the shortfalls I highlighted and if it works I will be the first to congratulate them. I would rather sign a central defender to fit the preferred formation instead of disrupting what was a proven winning formula.

As I said earlier 45 more games will give us the answer.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby oldweststander » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:10 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
broomo wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Firstly I don’t think Harbottle is here as backup.

I wouldn’t count Hewitt as he would be my first choice right back/wing back. I think Nigel is also not sure about Gordon certainly at right back. That really only leaves you one absentee if you are playing with 3 centre backs which is the position most likely to pick up suspensions. If Macca is injured you could well need Hewitt on that side of the pitch.

A good solid centre half would plug any gaps and should add much needed pace if Harbottle isn’t on the pitch. Hawkins would be my back up and could also cover if Oates is injured. So get the right centre half and a number of potential problems have a solution.


We already have the solutions to a number of potential problems.

Look, I was as angry and disappointed as anyone else at Hawkins after the PO final but to suggest he's anything other than a key player for us is ludicrous, we seem to be forgetting he was an integral part of the team that went on to show not only promotion but title winning form from Tranmere onwards.

For all the talk of him struggling with pace, how often did we get beaten by a team who tore us apart through the middle? Add to that he weighed in with the odd goal here and there and I just don't get the disrespect he's been shown.

I'd have him in my team alongside O'Toole whichever formation we played.


Broomo, I don’t know how many times I have to say this but my dislike for Hawkins at centre back has absolutely nothing to do with the display at Wembley. I have been critical of the player months before then but also acknowledge if he has a good game. I openly concede that he is our best defender when balls are launched into the box and someone has to get a head on it. Unfortunately it’s the rest of his game that make him unsuitable as a TOP centre half. He is not just slow but is yards behind players who run past him and this often results in free kicks in dangerous areas if he’s even close enough to foul the player in the first place. He loses concentration and is often too far from his man should a ball come through.

Todays game is being played increasingly on the floor and I’m sure we will see far fewer hoof teams at our level this season. That is why we need a king pin centre half who is not only reasonable but excels in those situations.

I don’t think I am being disrespectful to a player merely by discussing his plus and minus points on a fan’s forum as we do it with every player we watch including opponents. I haven’t called Hawkins names nor would I do so.

I concede that Nigel has faith in Hawkins and has changed his preferred formation to allow for the shortfalls I highlighted and if it works I will be the first to congratulate them. I would rather sign a central defender to fit the preferred formation instead of disrupting what was a proven winning formula.

As I said earlier 45 more games will give us the answer.



Well summed up although Broomo does have a point about what some posters say.

My view is, if we are going to be serious title contenders we need a new centre back who more pace and concentration. Nigel talks about only signing players who would improve our team, surely there is a centre back available who would do just that?
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby bear 73 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:20 am

yorkshire stag wrote:this would have been my first summer but

Matthew Horsfall exactly what we needed however went to Stockport

Is that the same Stockport that paid £250-000 for Paddy Madden while still a non -league club
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby bear 73 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:24 am

Rob wrote:
bear 73 wrote:
wink68 wrote:A quality centre half was the main reason we didn't go up last season and we still need one. There a difference between having players that can play there and a rock at the back that wins you promotion.

why have we not thought of this before seems so easy ,


Yes indeed :lol:

I know you won't accept a single word of criticism of Clough, but it really is as clear as it can be that we need a top quality CB. If he doesn't sign one and we struggle he will rightly be criticised. I'm amazed Martin thinks we don't need one. In fact, whilst we can list 5 players who "can" play at CB, actually only one of them is one!

Perhaps Martin spends time with Clough and gets the way the club is evolving
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:16 am

Fully agree with Rob. We definitely need another quality centre half to try and make sure we come away with a draw or pinch a win away from home when our midfield/forwards are not on top form like at Salford last Saturday. I'm sure Nigel Clough will agree if we carry on conceding soft goals like we did at Salford. We kept 14 clean sheets last season with 8 being at home and 6 away from home. We need to improve on that particularly away from home.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby bear 73 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:21 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
broomo wrote:I don't have the historical knowledge of Mansfield so can only compare it to a different club.

Nigel was sacked at Derby over a long running difference of opinion over not signing another centre half.

He thought Buxton was good enough. The fans and the CEO didn't.

NC went on record as saying the squad was good enough and for the first time since he took over they would challenge for the play offs.

In fact before sacking him the CEO had agreed to sign Zak Whitbread on loan with a guaranteed "buy" in place once the loan was completed. Paying huge wages for a lad coming back from a long term injury.

Buxton went on to be an ever present and a club legend, Whitbread was injured for pretty much 2 years.

Why am I posting that?

Last season Nigel said he'd got a squad capable of challenging for promotion.

This season he has said he thinks we're good enough to go one better.

He's not a bad judge of the make up of his squad, if a quality centre half or striker becomes available and fits within the budget, I suspect he'd sign them but for now, he's happy to go with what we've got.

If Nigel thinks we've got enough of a squad to challenge, I would trust that he's right.


Nice story Broomo but Buxton was a centre half with plenty of experience and our one time captain. He was also relatively young and able to learn. He had also played for Clough as a centre half at Burton and Nigel had seen him develop and recognised his potential.

Contrast that with our current situation with a 30 year old centre forward with little defensive experience playing at the heart of our defence and expected to be the king pin of a team looking for automatic promotion.

The two situations simply don’t compare especially when you look at what defensive cover we have available.

The only thing that will settle this debate is another 45 league two games and then we will know the answer. Unless of course we sign a recognised centre half before then.


Buxton got relegated with Mansfield then went to non-league Burton, from Non-league Clough took him straight to the Championship and Derby.
, hence fans not happy with his appointment sounds familar yes gave him the title of non-league Nigel because of taking players from non-league to
a big club like Derby, Non League to a club just down from the Premier league , and yes Buxton became a legend there,
The title went with him to Sheff Utd when he brought Che Adams from Ilkeston Town, they sold him for over
£! miilion and he went on to be a scottish international.
If he cannot get better than he has got he will go with that
Catch 22 he buys a defender, and oh we need another striker, Oh who is going to cover Macca.
The fans list goes on and on.
And ifollow at less than a pound a week is to much. I am on Holliday thank goodness for Martin and Deano bringing me the commentary
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby broomo » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:37 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
broomo wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Firstly I don’t think Harbottle is here as backup.

I wouldn’t count Hewitt as he would be my first choice right back/wing back. I think Nigel is also not sure about Gordon certainly at right back. That really only leaves you one absentee if you are playing with 3 centre backs which is the position most likely to pick up suspensions. If Macca is injured you could well need Hewitt on that side of the pitch.

A good solid centre half would plug any gaps and should add much needed pace if Harbottle isn’t on the pitch. Hawkins would be my back up and could also cover if Oates is injured. So get the right centre half and a number of potential problems have a solution.


We already have the solutions to a number of potential problems.

Look, I was as angry and disappointed as anyone else at Hawkins after the PO final but to suggest he's anything other than a key player for us is ludicrous, we seem to be forgetting he was an integral part of the team that went on to show not only promotion but title winning form from Tranmere onwards.

For all the talk of him struggling with pace, how often did we get beaten by a team who tore us apart through the middle? Add to that he weighed in with the odd goal here and there and I just don't get the disrespect he's been shown.

I'd have him in my team alongside O'Toole whichever formation we played.


Broomo, I don’t know how many times I have to say this but my dislike for Hawkins at centre back has absolutely nothing to do with the display at Wembley. I have been critical of the player months before then but also acknowledge if he has a good game. I openly concede that he is our best defender when balls are launched into the box and someone has to get a head on it. Unfortunately it’s the rest of his game that make him unsuitable as a TOP centre half. He is not just slow but is yards behind players who run past him and this often results in free kicks in dangerous areas if he’s even close enough to foul the player in the first place. He loses concentration and is often too far from his man should a ball come through.

Todays game is being played increasingly on the floor and I’m sure we will see far fewer hoof teams at our level this season. That is why we need a king pin centre half who is not only reasonable but excels in those situations.

I don’t think I am being disrespectful to a player merely by discussing his plus and minus points on a fan’s forum as we do it with every player we watch including opponents. I haven’t called Hawkins names nor would I do so.

I concede that Nigel has faith in Hawkins and has changed his preferred formation to allow for the shortfalls I highlighted and if it works I will be the first to congratulate them. I would rather sign a central defender to fit the preferred formation instead of disrupting what was a proven winning formula.

As I said earlier 45 more games will give us the answer.


When I talk of disrespect I mean collectively; not just you.

What exactly is a TOP centre half at this level SPB.

We finished in the play offs last season; or do you think that was despite him more than because of him?

He was a big part of that proven winning formula you mention.

Also Nigel has played 3-5-2 quite a lot during his managerial career and had arguably his best achievement in keeping Burton in the Championship playing it.

Maybe that's HIS preferred formation even though I'm certain the formation will be fairly fluid both long term and during games.

He certainly won't have changed it only to cover Oli's shortcomings. The 11 is more important than the one.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby london amber stag » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:44 am

We need a no nonsense Krystian Pearce type of defender, I think he would have excelled in this team. It’s a shame Coughlan transfer listed him and then froze him out.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby yorkshire stag » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:45 am

bear 73 wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:this would have been my first summer but

Matthew Horsfall exactly what we needed however went to Stockport

Is that the same Stockport that paid £250-000 for Paddy Madden while still a non -league club


sometimes you have to invest a little to achieve your dreams, Horsfall was a prime example of the quality we need as a CB.

he didn’t address it last year & imo hasn’t this thus far, you say this was the similar circumstance to him getting the boot at Burton, ala fans & chairman thought they didn’t a CB he didn’t ?
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Showaddywaddy » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:48 am

We have plenty of options at centre back, if we were to sign one more it would have to be an improvement on what we already have, but we know this already.

To bring in someone who walks straight into the side as our best centre half will no doubt cost plenty of dosh. I can’t name many Centre halves that would be a realistic target to improve us that dramatically. Horsfall was on my wish list but I expected him to move higher up the divisions, he was a great signing by Stockport.

It’s the same situation up front, we want either a striker or number 10 that walks straight into the side where the rest of the f the division sit up and say ‘Mansfield are really going for it again’.

We’ve obviously tried to chuck a bit of money at this with bids for Nichols, Broom and maybe others. I would like to see Oates plus one new quality addition as our regular strike pairing, but again who else can we get? Telford would’ve been good, another player I expected to go higher but opted for Crawley, though it could turn out he’s a one season wonder. I’d absolutely love Tyler back, he’d score a shed load but he came on as substitute for Coventry last Sunday. McKirdy’s name has mentioned but I can’t see is making an offer that Swindon would accept. He’s an annoying little player but he had a fabulous season last year and was excellent against us at the Mill.

I think we are so desperate for signings because that is football these days, all rumours, speculation and wholesale changes and Mansfield have been no exception.

I’m happy to trust the boss, we couldn’t be in better hands, I think we’ve got our best manager since Ian Greaves.

Here’s hoping for 3 points today, otherwise that’s no win in 3 competitive matches and Clough out!!

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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Ralphy » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:53 am

Great post showaddywaddy, a win today changes the mood again UTS
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Bradders » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:11 am

Martin Shaw wrote:
Billy the fish wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:I don't think Clough is looking for another centre back. Of course if a quality player becomes available, then Clough has said that he always looks to improve the squad if he can, so that might change.

We have Perch, Hewitt, Hawkins, O'Toole, Harbottle competing for three places, if we continue with 3-5-2 formation.


Do you personally think we have enough quality up top Martin or think we are a goal scorer short ??


I'd like to see another striker. But only if he is a very good player, not one just for the sake of signing a striker.

Clough said this week:
"Ideally we'd like another forward player.
"The owners put in a couple of substantial bids for strikers. We weren't successful."

There was a lot hand-wringing about tactics, performances and formations at Salford. But we outplayed the opposition and created a hatful of chances, whereas they were limited to a couple of opportunities. The main problem was that we weren't clinical with finishing. I think that with a better goalscorer last season we'd already be in League One, and suspect that if the poor finishing isn't addressed we'll fall short again.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:31 am

My idea of a top centre half is one who is at least competent in all areas of his game not excellent in one area but mediocre (at best) in the other areas. He would be one who is capable of having a reasonable chance of success against all types of opponents whether they play it high or along the floor and isn’t left yards behind his target in a straight foot race.

I’m not asking for perfection just competence for a side aiming at automatic promotion. Some on here think JJ isn’t the best centre half but I think him more than competent and if we could replace Hawkins with JJ’s twin, I would be more than satisfied.

And to answer your question, yes I think we succeeded last year despite Hawkins. He had some very good games (usually against hoof teams) but he also had some awful games even if we got away with a lot of his mistakes. I want consistency which is necessary in such a vital role if you are serious about the automatics.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Rob » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:36 am

Showaddywaddy wrote:We have plenty of options at centre back, if we were to sign one more it would have to be an improvement on what we already have, but we know this already.

To bring in someone who walks straight into the side as our best centre half will no doubt cost plenty of dosh. I can’t name many Centre halves that would be a realistic target to improve us that dramatically. Horsfall was on my wish list but I expected him to move higher up the divisions, he was a great signing by Stockport.

It’s the same situation up front, we want either a striker or number 10 that walks straight into the side where the rest of the f the division sit up and say ‘Mansfield are really going for it again’.

We’ve obviously tried to chuck a bit of money at this with bids for Nichols, Broom and maybe others. I would like to see Oates plus one new quality addition as our regular strike pairing, but again who else can we get? Telford would’ve been good, another player I expected to go higher but opted for Crawley, though it could turn out he’s a one season wonder. I’d absolutely love Tyler back, he’d score a shed load but he came on as substitute for Coventry last Sunday. McKirdy’s name has mentioned but I can’t see is making an offer that Swindon would accept. He’s an annoying little player but he had a fabulous season last year and was excellent against us at the Mill.

I think we are so desperate for signings because that is football these days, all rumours, speculation and wholesale changes and Mansfield have been no exception.

I’m happy to trust the boss, we couldn’t be in better hands, I think we’ve got our best manager since Ian Greaves.

Here’s hoping for 3 points today, otherwise that’s no win in 3 competitive matches and Clough out!!

Up the Stags.


I don't think we have "plenty" of options at CB, that's why we ended up playing Macca there to the detriment of the team. This will happen again if we don't strengthen. However we really, really have plenty of options in centre midfield, 3 for each position! The squad is unbalanced, as it was last season and it probably cost us top 3. No back up striker, no dominant CB.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:40 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:My idea of a top centre half is one who is at least competent in all areas of his game not excellent in one area but mediocre (at best) in the other areas. He would be one who is capable of having a reasonable chance of success against all types of opponents whether they play it high or along the floor and isn’t left yards behind his target in a straight foot race.

I’m not asking for perfection just competence for a side aiming at automatic promotion. Some on here think JJ isn’t the best centre half but I think him more than competent and if we could replace Hawkins with JJ’s twin, I would be more than satisfied.

And to answer your question, yes I think we succeeded last year despite Hawkins. He had some very good games (usually against hoof teams) but he also had some awful games even if we got away with a lot of his mistakes. I want consistency which is necessary in such a vital role if you are serious about the automatics.


Something that is lacking quite regularly at this level, and not just talking about our team or our players.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby gazza1988 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:48 am

Bradders wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
Billy the fish wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:I don't think Clough is looking for another centre back. Of course if a quality player becomes available, then Clough has said that he always looks to improve the squad if he can, so that might change.

We have Perch, Hewitt, Hawkins, O'Toole, Harbottle competing for three places, if we continue with 3-5-2 formation.


Do you personally think we have enough quality up top Martin or think we are a goal scorer short ??


I'd like to see another striker. But only if he is a very good player, not one just for the sake of signing a striker.

Clough said this week:
"Ideally we'd like another forward player.
"The owners put in a couple of substantial bids for strikers. We weren't successful."

There was a lot hand-wringing about tactics, performances and formations at Salford. But we outplayed the opposition and created a hatful of chances, whereas they were limited to a couple of opportunities. The main problem was that we weren't clinical with finishing. I think that with a better goalscorer last season we'd already be in League One, and suspect that if the poor finishing isn't addressed we'll fall short again.


Swindon Town scored 10 more goals than we did, and they were the highest scoring team in the league. They finished 6th with the same Win, draw and Loss record as us and finished above us on goal difference.

Swindon also conceded 2 more goals than we did. In the top 10, Swindon conceded the most goals with 54, Sutton 2nd with 53 and us 3rd with 52,

Scoring goals is not our main issue (although can always be improved). Preventing goals is our main issue. It isn't a new thing, it was said last season too. It's easy to say if we had an extra goal in this game we'd have more points. Equally valid though is if we hadn't conceded in some games we would have more points. if 2 score draws become a 1 goal win that's 4 more points and if 1 loss by 1 goal becomes a draw thats another point. So 3 games where we conceded 1 less goal in each gives us 5 points. 82 points in total and we take 3rd.

Obviously you could take the same games and say 1 more goal reaps the same rewards, this is true, however Swindon scored the most goals in the league and conceded 2 more than us and only managed 6th on goal difference.

Exeter city scored a similar amount of goals to us (2 less. They scored 65 to our 67) but crucially conceded 11 goals less than we did.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:50 am

bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:My idea of a top centre half is one who is at least competent in all areas of his game not excellent in one area but mediocre (at best) in the other areas. He would be one who is capable of having a reasonable chance of success against all types of opponents whether they play it high or along the floor and isn’t left yards behind his target in a straight foot race.

I’m not asking for perfection just competence for a side aiming at automatic promotion. Some on here think JJ isn’t the best centre half but I think him more than competent and if we could replace Hawkins with JJ’s twin, I would be more than satisfied.

And to answer your question, yes I think we succeeded last year despite Hawkins. He had some very good games (usually against hoof teams) but he also had some awful games even if we got away with a lot of his mistakes. I want consistency which is necessary in such a vital role if you are serious about the automatics.


Something that is lacking quite regularly at this level, and not just talking about our team or our players.


Yes it is but the teams that have it usually get promoted. Centre half and goalkeeper are probably the two most vital roles in a team.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Bradders » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:40 am

gazza1988 wrote:
Bradders wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
Billy the fish wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:I don't think Clough is looking for another centre back. Of course if a quality player becomes available, then Clough has said that he always looks to improve the squad if he can, so that might change.

We have Perch, Hewitt, Hawkins, O'Toole, Harbottle competing for three places, if we continue with 3-5-2 formation.


Do you personally think we have enough quality up top Martin or think we are a goal scorer short ??


I'd like to see another striker. But only if he is a very good player, not one just for the sake of signing a striker.

Clough said this week:
"Ideally we'd like another forward player.
"The owners put in a couple of substantial bids for strikers. We weren't successful."

There was a lot hand-wringing about tactics, performances and formations at Salford. But we outplayed the opposition and created a hatful of chances, whereas they were limited to a couple of opportunities. The main problem was that we weren't clinical with finishing. I think that with a better goalscorer last season we'd already be in League One, and suspect that if the poor finishing isn't addressed we'll fall short again.


Swindon Town scored 10 more goals than we did, and they were the highest scoring team in the league. They finished 6th with the same Win, draw and Loss record as us and finished above us on goal difference.

Swindon also conceded 2 more goals than we did. In the top 10, Swindon conceded the most goals with 54, Sutton 2nd with 53 and us 3rd with 52,

Scoring goals is not our main issue (although can always be improved). Preventing goals is our main issue. It isn't a new thing, it was said last season too. It's easy to say if we had an extra goal in this game we'd have more points. Equally valid though is if we hadn't conceded in some games we would have more points. if 2 score draws become a 1 goal win that's 4 more points and if 1 loss by 1 goal becomes a draw thats another point. So 3 games where we conceded 1 less goal in each gives us 5 points. 82 points in total and we take 3rd.

Obviously you could take the same games and say 1 more goal reaps the same rewards, this is true, however Swindon scored the most goals in the league and conceded 2 more than us and only managed 6th on goal difference.

Exeter city scored a similar amount of goals to us (2 less. They scored 65 to our 67) but crucially conceded 11 goals less than we did.

Yes, I can't argue with the stats of course, and I'd noticed the same. But ultimately we've seen good chances go begging on too many occasions. Salford was a good example. Other teams seem to create little but make the most of every chance, but we rarely look dangerous in attack because the final shot is rushed. From the stats we may as well play 4-5-1 and accept that we don't need to score much.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby gazza1988 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:12 pm

Bradders wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Swindon Town scored 10 more goals than we did, and they were the highest scoring team in the league. They finished 6th with the same Win, draw and Loss record as us and finished above us on goal difference.

Swindon also conceded 2 more goals than we did. In the top 10, Swindon conceded the most goals with 54, Sutton 2nd with 53 and us 3rd with 52,

Scoring goals is not our main issue (although can always be improved). Preventing goals is our main issue. It isn't a new thing, it was said last season too. It's easy to say if we had an extra goal in this game we'd have more points. Equally valid though is if we hadn't conceded in some games we would have more points. if 2 score draws become a 1 goal win that's 4 more points and if 1 loss by 1 goal becomes a draw thats another point. So 3 games where we conceded 1 less goal in each gives us 5 points. 82 points in total and we take 3rd.

Obviously you could take the same games and say 1 more goal reaps the same rewards, this is true, however Swindon scored the most goals in the league and conceded 2 more than us and only managed 6th on goal difference.

Exeter city scored a similar amount of goals to us (2 less. They scored 65 to our 67) but crucially conceded 11 goals less than we did.

Yes, I can't argue with the stats of course, and I'd noticed the same. But ultimately we've seen good chances go begging on too many occasions. Salford was a good example. Other teams seem to create little but make the most of every chance, but we rarely look dangerous in attack because the final shot is rushed. From the stats we may as well play 4-5-1 and accept that we don't need to score much.


Well no, we still need to score as many goals as possible. Going more defensive as a mindset isn't the way to go. Neither is all out gung ho attack. We play as we are/were but with a higher quality defence. Even if we make 1 extra interception a game and 1 extra header and 1 extra tacke we have the ball back and COULD create 3 extra attacks. increasing our chances of scoring one more. Which improves on our goal difference. The goal difference is the main thing. Whether more goals scored or less goals conceded our goal difference was the worst of the top 7 by 6 at the shortest gap and 15 by the longest. This must improve.

Some say Attack is the best form of defence, but a good attack is built on a solid defence. we scored enough last term for top 3, because we scored more than 2nd place Exeter (still 4th highest in the top 7 so certainly still room for improvement) but preventing goals we were the 6th worst of the top 7 for conceding goals.

You can argue as well that had we signed O'Toole in the summer window we might have gone up by virtue of not going on that run without a win, it is possible, if not probable it would have happened. However, at the time we had Forrester and Nartey as well. How much more improved further was we when Forrester played? He featured in 4 league games for us, we won 3 and lost 1. However, 1 of those games he came on in the 89th minute, and the 1 loss he came on after 73 minutes and we didn't concede after. So arguably in the league games he was on the pitch for we conceded just 1 goal.

Strictly speaking we still had the registration of Nartey and could have used him. So Harbottle replaced Nartey and Rawson hasn't been replaced. Again that is strictly speaking and we never used Nartey late on the season so that is a moot point.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Dan » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:15 pm

1-0 win clean sheet winning goal from a centre back, thread closed :lol: :lol: :lol:

Strange that he brought Hewitt on and put him centre half, he could've tried that last week even for 45 minutes.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby MTFCMusings » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:21 pm

Dan wrote:1-0 win clean sheet winning goal from a centre back, thread closed :lol: :lol: :lol:

Strange that he brought Hewitt on and put him centre half, he could've tried that last week even for 45 minutes.


He did, Hewitt came on after an hour at centre back last week.
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