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Do we actually need another centre back

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Do we actually need another centre back

Postby diablo » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:45 am

Lots of calls on the forum for the Club to sign a new centre back...but do we actually need another?...Current defenders who can and probably should play in this position are. Perch , Hewitt , Cooper, O'Toole, Harbottle , Hawkins...Cooper and Harbottle are relatively inexperienced...Hewitt appears more comfortable at RB . many see Hawkins as a forward converted to Centre back who would be more valuable up front , both Perch (37) and O'Toole( 34) are very experienced but not the quickest..what do you think?
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Stag95 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:51 am

Yes definitely. Cooper probably goes out on loan, and Hewitt also has to cover the RWB role. That leaves us with:

Perch who is very injury prone and spent most of his career as a RB
Hawkins who needs to be paired up with pacey players around him
JJ who has been great but always has a red card in him
Harbottle who hasn’t got any experience at this level
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:54 am

I don't think Clough is looking for another centre back. Of course if a quality player becomes available, then Clough has said that he always looks to improve the squad if he can, so that might change.

We have Perch, Hewitt, Hawkins, O'Toole, Harbottle competing for three places, if we continue with 3-5-2 formation.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Billy the fish » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:03 am

Martin Shaw wrote:I don't think Clough is looking for another centre back. Of course if a quality player becomes available, then Clough has said that he always looks to improve the squad if he can, so that might change.

We have Perch, Hewitt, Hawkins, O'Toole, Harbottle competing for three places, if we continue with 3-5-2 formation.


Do you personally think we have enough quality up top Martin or think we are a goal scorer short ??
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Laney_MTFC » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:08 am

id much rather the club sign a centre back to allow hawkins to go back up top. I wouldnt have let rawson go, that would have been CB and CF sorted with hawkins pushed up top.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby BH_Stag » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:11 am

Time will tell whether we have done enough to improve the back line. Numbers wise we are pretty OK in central defence although I’m not sure yet that we’ve really improved the quality and that’s what matters.

We’ve only replaced Rawson with Harbottle and obviously we need to see more of the latter. Harbottle will be more accomplished in possession but he’s very inexperienced and we will see how he gets on in a proper scrap the season progresses. Saw glimpses of this on Saturday. Looked calm on the ball throughout, but got dragged out of position for the first goal, and was skinned in the second half when Pym saved. It happens to everyone but whether we’ve strengthened enough here remains to be seen.

You could say the same up top. All we’ve done is sign a youngster with no experience. He looks pretty lightweight, so he’s going to have to show that the games not just going to pass him by. His technical ability and finishing will need to shine if he is to improve us. Personally think Bowery will prove to be a better strike partner.

Ideally I’d have preferred for us to sign more proven commodities rather than punting on two youngsters to make the necessary improvements required for promotion. If I were in charge I’d be looking to sign another Striker and Defender.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:15 am

Billy the fish wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:I don't think Clough is looking for another centre back. Of course if a quality player becomes available, then Clough has said that he always looks to improve the squad if he can, so that might change.

We have Perch, Hewitt, Hawkins, O'Toole, Harbottle competing for three places, if we continue with 3-5-2 formation.


Do you personally think we have enough quality up top Martin or think we are a goal scorer short ??


I'd like to see another striker. But only if he is a very good player, not one just for the sake of signing a striker.

Clough said this week:
"Ideally we'd like another forward player.
"The owners put in a couple of substantial bids for strikers. We weren't successful."
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby gazza1988 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:19 am

Oates, Swan, Bowery, Akins, Hawkins and Gale. They are our striker options. Why would we need a 7th competing for 2 spaces, when 5 defenders is plenty competing for 3?

Who is covering Macca? Or is he playing 90 minutes of 46 league games and however many cup games there is.

If I remember correctly, last season, when Macca was out, we had perch, Hewitt and Akins all play left back we've had Bowery at LWB I this season. Who thinks they are viable options if Macca is out for a few weeks?
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby wink68 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:22 am

A quality centre half was the main reason we didn't go up last season and we still need one. There a difference between having players that can play there and a rock at the back that wins you promotion.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby bobbystagsfan » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:23 am

wink68 wrote:A quality centre half was the main reason we didn't go up last season and we still need one. There a difference between having players that can play there and a rock at the back that wins you promotion.



The main reason we didn't go up was because we didn't win for 14 games, and half of our team was injured.

You could turn it on its head and say it's because we didn't have another striker scoring goals to help relieve the pressure off Oates.
Last edited by bobbystagsfan on Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:23 am

I 100% think we need another centre back if we are to be serious automatic promotion contenders.

I acknowledge that Hawkins is solid in the air and is seldom beaten but he is below average in speed, reading the game and watching what his man is doing. I would rate him as a lower half league 2 centre half who can be easily bypassed. I rate JJ as much better and more than competent to achieve our aims. I don’t think we have seen enough of Harbottle to be sure but feel he will probably do a good job. As stated Perch is competent but currently injured. I would play Hewitt at right back/wing back in preference to Gordon who has very little ability if he has to use his left foot and has to constantly turn. I don’t see Gordon at centre half. As stated Cooper is going out on loan. Everyone else are merely fill ins if needed.

Nigel has stated we are going with a back three which leaves little wriggle room for injuries and suspensions.

If we are merely aiming at the playoffs we may have enough to scrape in them without a new man but that will mean we have to be lucky with absentees for whatever reason.

I know not everyone will agree with my assessment of Hawkins and Gordon but that’s how I assess the pair.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby cassellswasmagic » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:25 am

Martin Shaw wrote:I don't think Clough is looking for another centre back. Of course if a quality player becomes available, then Clough has said that he always looks to improve the squad if he can, so that might change.

We have Perch, Hewitt, Hawkins, O'Toole, Harbottle competing for three places, if we continue with 3-5-2 formation.

Also Bowery can play there if required. I’d be looking for the best finisher we can find. A CB isn’t required imo.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby gazza1988 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:31 am

bobbystagsfan wrote:
wink68 wrote:A quality centre half was the main reason we didn't go up last season and we still need one. There a difference between having players that can play there and a rock at the back that wins you promotion.



The main reason we didn't go up was because we didn't win for 14 games, and half of our team was injured.

You could turn it on its head and say it's because we didn't have another striker scoring goals to help relieve the pressure off Oates.

We didn't win for 14 games because we needed a CB. Signed o'toole and went on a good run with him at centre back. So the main reason was we needed a centre back. That's the only thing that changed. We still had injuries after that. Quite a few still but it never got mentioned because we didn't need an excuse any more.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby BH_Stag » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:37 am

gazza1988 wrote:Oates, Swan, Bowery, Akins, Hawkins and Gale. They are our striker options. Why would we need a 7th competing for 2 spaces, when 5 defenders is plenty competing for 3?

Who is covering Macca? Or is he playing 90 minutes of 46 league games and however many cup games there is.

If I remember correctly, last season, when Macca was out, we had perch, Hewitt and Akins all play left back we've had Bowery at LWB I this season. Who thinks they are viable options if Macca is out for a few weeks?


It’s a question of whether we have the quality, not quantity. If you take Oates out of that forward line through injury (which isn’t unlikely) then all of a sudden it could start to look quite void of a real goal threat.

Also, Gale would go out on loan, and Hawkins will be used in defence.

I agree on your points R.E Macca
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby yorkshire stag » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:00 am

this would have been my first summer but

Matthew Horsfall exactly what we needed however went to Stockport
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby gazza1988 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:01 am

BH_Stag wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Oates, Swan, Bowery, Akins, Hawkins and Gale. They are our striker options. Why would we need a 7th competing for 2 spaces, when 5 defenders is plenty competing for 3?

Who is covering Macca? Or is he playing 90 minutes of 46 league games and however many cup games there is.

If I remember correctly, last season, when Macca was out, we had perch, Hewitt and Akins all play left back we've had Bowery at LWB I this season. Who thinks they are viable options if Macca is out for a few weeks?


It’s a question of whether we have the quality, not quantity. If you take Oates out of that forward line through injury (which isn’t unlikely) then all of a sudden it could start to look quite void of a real goal threat.

Also, Gale would go out on loan, and Hawkins will be used in defence.

I agree on your points R.E Macca


I get what you are saying and I do actually agree. However, the problem is we would have quality but also quantity in backup.

In defence we have quality but not enough quantity.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby oldweststander » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:09 am

We keep being told evert man and his dog can play centre back, that's not true.
Pkaying in the middle at the back is as much a skill ads playing up front or anywhere else, believe me, I've done both but not at pro level.

We need a specialist central defender, currently we only have the inexperienced Harbottle.

If the opposition don't score, you don't lose.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby cassellswasmagic » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:13 am

oldweststander wrote:We keep being told evert man and his dog can play centre back, that's not true.
Pkaying in the middle at the back is as much a skill ads playing up front or anywhere else, believe me, I've done both but not at pro level.

We need a specialist central defender, currently we only have the inexperienced Harbottle.

If the opposition don't score, you don't lose.

True OWS but it’s much harder to score goals than defend against them, on an individual basis of course. I just feel we have enough at the back.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Ralphy » Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:38 am

Can bet a pound to a penny if we signed a centre half and a striker today this board would go mad to then demand a new right back or any other position really :D
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby 1970Stag » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:23 pm

Based on how we conceded the two goals on saturday, then it's a "yes" from me!
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby PostmanPat » Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:44 pm

Ralphy wrote:Can bet a pound to a penny if we signed a centre half and a striker today this board would go mad to then demand a new right back or any other position really :D


Well if you think there’s plenty of goals in our forwards you need help. Need a 20 a season man.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Ralphy » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:19 pm

Perhaps have another read as it wasn’t my point, the point was that some will still demand more signings no matter how many we make - it’s never enough but thanks for the delivery
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby wink68 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:37 pm

To quote Ian Greaves. I've bought him in to build a team round him.
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby bear 73 » Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:43 pm

wink68 wrote:A quality centre half was the main reason we didn't go up last season and we still need one. There a difference between having players that can play there and a rock at the back that wins you promotion.

why have we not thought of this before seems so easy ,
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Re: Do we actually need another centre back

Postby Rob » Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:20 pm

bear 73 wrote:
wink68 wrote:A quality centre half was the main reason we didn't go up last season and we still need one. There a difference between having players that can play there and a rock at the back that wins you promotion.

why have we not thought of this before seems so easy ,


Yes indeed :lol:

I know you won't accept a single word of criticism of Clough, but it really is as clear as it can be that we need a top quality CB. If he doesn't sign one and we struggle he will rightly be criticised. I'm amazed Martin thinks we don't need one. In fact, whilst we can list 5 players who "can" play at CB, actually only one of them is one!
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