rumours on new signings

[broomo]

After 6 games last season we'd scored 9 and conceded 10. 7 points.

This season scored 9 conceded 8. 9 points.

So far the defense has improved on last season and we're better off points wise.

The next 8 games to the end of the horrible run last year we scored 5 (woeful) , conceded 10 (not bad really) and took just 4 points (pitiful).

If we beat that total comfortably (which we will) will folk still say we haven't improved and then no doubt start asking for it to be judged over a longer spell.

Which will be bizarre because that's all and exactly what I and others are asking some to do now.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

Mussy I’m sorry if you thought I was accusing you of stifling debate, that wasn’t my intention.

I think you will see that I said you couldn’t judge after 6 games in my second paragraph. Fairness doesn’t really come into the equation as we are discussing prospects not judging success or failure. I do however think you would normally have a fair idea before half a season as to finishing places. Last year was an exception to the rule but even when we were losing most had an idea why and accepted we would improve as players returned. Unfortunately I don’t think that way this year as I feel the squad is flawed but hope I am incorrect.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

After 6 games last season we'd scored 9 and conceded 10. 7 points.

This season scored 9 conceded 8. 9 points.

So far the defense has improved on last season and we're better off points wise.

The next 8 games to the end of the horrible run last year we scored 5 (woeful) , conceded 10 (not bad really) and took just 4 points (pitiful).

If we beat that total comfortably (which we will) will folk still say we haven't improved and then no doubt start asking for it to be judged over a longer spell.

Which will be bizarre because that's all and exactly what I and others are asking some to do now.

Last season we were decimated by injuries and suspensions. That is not the case this year.

[broomo]

After 6 games last season we'd scored 9 and conceded 10. 7 points.

This season scored 9 conceded 8. 9 points.

So far the defense has improved on last season and we're better off points wise.

The next 8 games to the end of the horrible run last year we scored 5 (woeful) , conceded 10 (not bad really) and took just 4 points (pitiful).

If we beat that total comfortably (which we will) will folk still say we haven't improved and then no doubt start asking for it to be judged over a longer spell.

Which will be bizarre because that's all and exactly what I and others are asking some to do now.

Last season we were decimated by injuries and suspensions. That is not the case this year.

Not for the first 6 games we weren't.

We were pretty much unchanged for the first four (one game Hewitt came in for Gordon).

Game 5 we lost Perch and it was game 6 v Harrogate when the raspberries hit the fan.

Game 7 onwards we were decimated.

[Johnny H]

I think we are a proper CH short.....
I would prefer any free agent being brought into the club to be a defender instead of a striker.

My main issue with NC is that when we lose a game, you can see the errors in team selection that cause most of the issues.

Last Saturday was a prime example of how he hasn't learned that from HIS errors at Wembley.
Hartigan is a lovely passer of the ball, but you need Maris and deffo Clarke alongside him to win the ball.
Quinn should not be in the same starting X1 as Hartigan....we get overrun too easily

[bear 73]

We are dealing with people here ....I think you've spent too much time on your keyboard playing football games.

And what point are you making Bear?

I am just watching the meltdown for some, im happy Gale has a chance and Clough explained what many of us thought.
Every thing possible was done by the club to bring a extra body in.
And we move on,

[Realitycheck82]

Let's just see what happens tomorrow, the clock is ticking for cloughies ridiculous team selections....I feel if he does it again 2mo then he could start to feel the wrath of the mansfield faithful!

[Richard Cranium]

The idiots maybe

[gazza1988]

If we are comparing to the first 6 last season let's compare results against corresponding results. Can't include Stockport or afc Wimbledon wins because we didn't play them last season. So, just like selecting good runs and applying that to whole season, it's kinda pointless.

Salford away - this season a 2-0 loss, last season 2-2 draw. So we are 1 point down on that fixture and -2 on goal difference.
Tranmere home - this season 1-0 win, last season 2-0 win. Same points but -1 goal difference down.
Orient away - this season 1-0 loss, last season 0-0 draw. Down 1 point and -1 goal difference.
Sutton United away - this season 2-1 loss, last season 2-0 loss. Same points +1 goal difference in comparison.

So of those 4 games (not much to go on due to small data point in truth) we have:
This season: kept 1 clean sheet while conceding 5 goals. We scored just 2 goals and failed to score in 2 games

Last season: we kept 2 clean sheets and conceded 4 goals. We scored 4 goals and failed to score in 2 games.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

Nigel Clough's just too nice and reasonable and needs to be more selfish. If I'm Nigel's agent or adviser then I'm telling him I don't care if Danny Johnson is a big earner. You do not let him out of the building until you have signed a replacement.

You also move on to Plan B/Plan C if nobody has signed on the dotted line by 8/9.00pm on deadline day. You cannot rely on other clubs as they will always let you down. Nigel should know by now that football is a cut throat business and dog eat dog. David Sharpe should have been telling him this. Nigel Clough is also an experienced manager. He's not a naive new manager.

It looks like George Lapslie and George Maris are our back up centre forwards.

Nigel now needs to adopt a bit of the old Coxy/Billy Brown Bottle Bunker Mentality. Put his arms around the players and tell them "It's me and you against the world pal!"

[broomo]

If we are comparing to the first 6 last season let's compare results against corresponding results. Can't include Stockport or afc Wimbledon wins because we didn't play them last season. So, just like selecting good runs and applying that to whole season, it's kinda pointless.

Salford away - this season a 2-0 loss, last season 2-2 draw. So we are 1 point down on that fixture and -2 on goal difference.
Tranmere home - this season 1-0 win, last season 2-0 win. Same points but -1 goal difference down.
Orient away - this season 1-0 loss, last season 0-0 draw. Down 1 point and -1 goal difference.
Sutton United away - this season 2-1 loss, last season 2-0 loss. Same points +1 goal difference in comparison.

So of those 4 games (not much to go on due to small data point in truth) we have:
This season: kept 1 clean sheet while conceding 5 goals. We scored just 2 goals and failed to score in 2 games

Last season: we kept 2 clean sheets and conceded 4 goals. We scored 4 goals and failed to score in 2 games.

Man alive, you don't half like to over complicate things.

There is no selective choosing of a good run, the bad run ended in October? the good run started then, no small sample size. 38 games. The fact is in the last 38 games we've got 79 points, that's not selective data.

Using your logic you can't compare Orient last season to Orient this as they were top of the table this season, they weren't last.

You can't compare Salford as they were 3rd this season, they weren't 3rd last.

What are you talking about 4 games and only 2 goals scored for? It's nonsense.

We've played 6 games, scored 9 conceded 8, no matter how you try to square it it's there in black and white.

[Scothie the Stag]

I'm happy to take a bet from anyone that we'll finish at worst top 5. I'll match whatever the stake and whoever loses donates the money to a charity of the winners choice?.

Quite a safe bet considering if we arent top half, Mr Clough won’t be here and you will sail into the sunset.

It's not like I'm anonymous. There are at least 20 posters on here who know who I am "in real life".

If Nigel gets the sack before the season ends and we are outside of the top 5, I'll honour the bet even from the sunset.

If we're top 5 and he's still sacked I think we'd all agree that would be ridiculous.

Top 5 and still sacked would be ridiculous? I wouldn't bet on that chief. We finished 4th a few years ago and sacked the manager after 15 months in charge including breaking club records and hamstrung by previous managers players out injured or dragging their heels.

It's not that ridiculous a notion.

These bets are ridiculous. They become null and void once we sign/sell a player because, like last season, Clough might realise we need a defender and sign one reversing our fortunes and propelling us up the table. Even if we don't sign anybody before January I can't see Clough not making changes in January. If I'm being honest.

So when I said Nigel would turn it around last season and I was ridiculed, the turning around doesn't count because he signed O'Toole?

That's madness.

Do folk think he only signed O'Toole because he logged on to the forum one day and saw people posting we needed a centre half?

That's madness.

So if we're 8th or 9th in January then win the league signing 2 players it's null and void?

That's madness.

A season is over 46 games. I'm saying over 46 games we'll be top 5 at worst.

Others can panic and moan all they want in August/September.

Go back and read the 3 matchday threads from Northampton backwards to see what the same posters were saying last season.

It's madness.

*edited to add out of the 4 games we've lost this season, one was away to top of the league, who are unbeaten in 6, one was away to 4th in the league and one was at home to a team 6th in League One and that's reason enough for some to throw the towel in.

Broomo, I value your input, but I'm intrigued by your edit. You're justifying our defeats by quoting the oppositions' league positions, yet you don't want people to be unhappy about our league position until game 46 (presumably unless things are going drastically wrong). For all we know Orient and Salford could finish 12th and 14th respectively and then those results wouldn't appear as acceptable for a team wanting top 3. Sorry if this has already been addressed, I've only skimmed the last page or so.

I am firmly in the Clough camp, but I would have felt a little more comfortable with one or two more bodies yesterday. I appreciate what people like Marky Mark are saying, in listening to Clough's interviews, we'd know he wasn't after a CB. However didn't he also say that he didn't want to throw Harbottle and Swan in at the deep end (paraphrasing)? Unfortunately he's had to due to minimal cover.

I'm not going to dwell on the lack of a signing, we are where we are, but I'd certainly welcome a decent free agent if the opportunity arose. Until then, I'm strapped in for the ride.

[Amber Andy]

Nigel Clough's just too nice and reasonable and needs to be more selfish. If I'm Nigel's agent or adviser then I'm telling him I don't care if Danny Johnson is a big earner. You do not let him out of the building until you have signed a replacement.

You also move on to Plan B/Plan C if nobody has signed on the dotted line by 8/9.00pm on deadline day. You cannot rely on other clubs as they will always let you down. Nigel should know by now that football is a cut throat business and dog eat dog. David Sharpe should have been telling him this. Nigel Clough is also an experienced manager. He's not a naive new manager.

It looks like George Lapslie and George Maris are our back up centre forwards.

Nigel now needs to adopt a bit of the old Coxy/Billy Brown Bottle Bunker Mentality. Put his arms around the players and tell them "It's me and you against the world pal!"

Swan is Johnson's replacement. NC said we only needed another striker due to injury to RO.

NC said that the management team had discussed what had happened regarding the Charlton player and would act differently next time.

They have had dealings before with Charlton and it all went smoothly.

Gale is our back up centre forward and possibly Robinson.

NC has managed at a higher level than Cox and does not need advising how to treat his players.

[broomo]

Quite a safe bet considering if we arent top half, Mr Clough won’t be here and you will sail into the sunset.

It's not like I'm anonymous. There are at least 20 posters on here who know who I am "in real life".

If Nigel gets the sack before the season ends and we are outside of the top 5, I'll honour the bet even from the sunset.

If we're top 5 and he's still sacked I think we'd all agree that would be ridiculous.

Top 5 and still sacked would be ridiculous? I wouldn't bet on that chief. We finished 4th a few years ago and sacked the manager after 15 months in charge including breaking club records and hamstrung by previous managers players out injured or dragging their heels.

It's not that ridiculous a notion.

These bets are ridiculous. They become null and void once we sign/sell a player because, like last season, Clough might realise we need a defender and sign one reversing our fortunes and propelling us up the table. Even if we don't sign anybody before January I can't see Clough not making changes in January. If I'm being honest.

So when I said Nigel would turn it around last season and I was ridiculed, the turning around doesn't count because he signed O'Toole?

That's madness.

Do folk think he only signed O'Toole because he logged on to the forum one day and saw people posting we needed a centre half?

That's madness.

So if we're 8th or 9th in January then win the league signing 2 players it's null and void?

That's madness.

A season is over 46 games. I'm saying over 46 games we'll be top 5 at worst.

Others can panic and moan all they want in August/September.

Go back and read the 3 matchday threads from Northampton backwards to see what the same posters were saying last season.

It's madness.

*edited to add out of the 4 games we've lost this season, one was away to top of the league, who are unbeaten in 6, one was away to 4th in the league and one was at home to a team 6th in League One and that's reason enough for some to throw the towel in.

Broomo, I value your input, but I'm intrigued by your edit. You're justifying our defeats by quoting the oppositions' league positions, yet you don't want people to be unhappy about our league position until game 46 (presumably unless things are going drastically wrong). For all we know Orient and Salford could finish 12th and 14th respectively and then those results wouldn't appear as acceptable for a team wanting top 3. Sorry if this has already been addressed, I've only skimmed the last page or so.

I am firmly in the Clough camp, but I would have felt a little more comfortable with one or two more bodies yesterday. I appreciate what people like Marky Mark are saying, in listening to Clough's interviews, we'd know he wasn't after a CB. However didn't he also say that he didn't want to throw Harbottle and Swan in at the deep end (paraphrasing)? Unfortunately he's had to due to minimal cover.

I'm not going to dwell on the lack of a signing, we are where we are, but I'd certainly welcome a decent free agent if the opportunity arose. Until then, I'm strapped in for the ride.

Not 46 games but certainly not 6.

I expect us to be top 5 by the end of October and I expect us to stay there or improve as the season progresses.

I think and hope we will secure a free agent and the extra body certainly won't do us any harm.

I'm using the current league positions of the teams we've lost to to highlight what we all knew, we've had a tough start and the next 2 games aren't any easier even so, I'm hopeful of 4 points and confident of 3.

People can be unhappy with our current league position, I can't stop them, I just think it's a bit silly at this stage.

[part time pete]

If we are comparing to the first 6 last season let's compare results against corresponding results. Can't include Stockport or afc Wimbledon wins because we didn't play them last season. So, just like selecting good runs and applying that to whole season, it's kinda pointless.

Salford away - this season a 2-0 loss, last season 2-2 draw. So we are 1 point down on that fixture and -2 on goal difference.
Tranmere home - this season 1-0 win, last season 2-0 win. Same points but -1 goal difference down.
Orient away - this season 1-0 loss, last season 0-0 draw. Down 1 point and -1 goal difference.
Sutton United away - this season 2-1 loss, last season 2-0 loss. Same points +1 goal difference in comparison.

So of those 4 games (not much to go on due to small data point in truth) we have:
This season: kept 1 clean sheet while conceding 5 goals. We scored just 2 goals and failed to score in 2 games

Last season: we kept 2 clean sheets and conceded 4 goals. We scored 4 goals and failed to score in 2 games.

The two games against teams we didn’t play last year we got 6 pts.
Last season we achieved 12pts at home against the six teams we will not be playing this season.
So two points per game, therefore we have ‘gained’ 2 pts. So overall the 9 pts gained is the same as last year.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

Will Swan is not really a replacement for Danny Johnson. As already pointed out, DJ has made 161(73) league starts and scored 84 goals. Will Swan had made 4(8) league starts and scored 1 goal before joining the Stags. It's a massive ask for for him to come in and be a regular scorer in a League 2 promotion winning side. We were all saying that we had no Plan B if Rhys Oates was injured.

The same applies to Riley Harbottle in defence who had zero league starts. It's a massive ask for him.

You also cannot rely on James Gale being a back up centre forward. He's a young lad who has zero league starts and was not banging in goals at Guiseley in National League North last season.

We are supposed to be going for automatic promotion in League 2. Matty Stevens 23 goals, Jamille Matt 19 goals, Harry McKirdy 19 goals, Aaron Collins 15 goals, Matty Jay 14 goals etc

Having said that then big signings do not always work out as planned e.g. Lucas Akins and Jamie Murphy.

If I was a bookmaker I would be laying the Stags big time at the moment. I'm happy to have a tenner on with Craig at evens that the Stags will not finish in the top 5. I hope I'm wrong but I always love a bit of value!

Furthermore, never write off the Paul Cox bunker mentality! He has a league title on the shelf and nobody has come near since.

[gazza1988]

NOTE: this is a reply to broomo a few posts ago, signal struggling a bit.

I said from the very start broomo what I was quoting. The 4 games played so far that has a corresponding result for last season. We scored 0 goals against Salford, 0 against Orient, 1 against Tranmere and 1 against Sutton. 0+0+1+1=2.

We didn't play Stockport or AFC Wimbledon last season so have nothing to compare to.

It's not that difficult.

People compare the first 6 this season to the first 6 last season. Teams have changed I was showing how silly it is by doing the comparing of corresponding fixtures. The logic behind my post is to show there's no logic to any of these comparisons. Where if the season started at a certain point of a certain season the the next 46 games gives teams the title.

Unfortunately it isn't that simple. You've got to get enough points over the 46 games in a season. The sample size is 46 games in a season not a select 38 games. In fact in this selected 38 games we've played Salford 3 times. That's not representative of a full season even if the original data you selected was only 38 games.

Also your point about league positions isn't great. This season those teams could finish in the same position, we don't know thi season hasn't ended yet.

Basically what has happened here is you're able to fudge some numbers that has had us champions twice and joint top once when in reality none were close to what actually happened, just to make out we have performed better as a whole than we have in reality. Whereas those disagreeing with you aren't allowed to use any metric that does show we aren't the galacticos of league 2.

People have opinions. Nothing you can do about it. You have your opinion, nothing anyone can do about it.

One thing we all want is promotion. That's the aim and that's the dream. People have their own opinions on how to go about getting it. That's the point of this board, people can share their views.

In my opinion we have a strong squad of players. In my opinion we don't have strong enough depth in defence, mainly on the left (left sided CB and LWB/LB). That's my opinion, I think more viable options in that area increases our chances of promotion. Just the same as best players in their strongest positions increases your chances of winning games and thus winning promotion.

[bobbystagsfan]

Since when did league appearances and experience become a replacement thing?

You let a striker go, you bring one in... that's a replacement.

You let Rawson go, we bring in Harbottle... that's a replacement.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

How many players have had very few EFL league appearances and come straight into a League 2 side and played regularly and won promotion?

I'll research this later. The only ones I can immediately think of are:

Bristol Rovers 2021-2022
Elliott Anderson (Midfield) 20(1) league apps and 7 goals
Connor Taylor (Centre Half) 41 (1) league apps and 3 goals

Cheltenham 2020-2021
Josh Griffiths (Goalkeeper) 44 league starts
Finn Azaz (Midfield) 27(10) league starts

[Tippy Tappy Football]

The No 1 target was someone who could play off a striker. Was that Tom Nichols or Ruben Rodrigues?

[Dan]

I'm happy to take a bet from anyone that we'll finish at worst top 5. I'll match whatever the stake and whoever loses donates the money to a charity of the winners choice?.

Quite a safe bet considering if we arent top half, Mr Clough won’t be here and you will sail into the sunset.

It's not like I'm anonymous. There are at least 20 posters on here who know who I am "in real life".

If Nigel gets the sack before the season ends and we are outside of the top 5, I'll honour the bet even from the sunset.

If we're top 5 and he's still sacked I think we'd all agree that would be ridiculous.

Top 5 and still sacked would be ridiculous? I wouldn't bet on that chief. We finished 4th a few years ago and sacked the manager after 15 months in charge including breaking club records and hamstrung by previous managers players out injured or dragging their heels.

It's not that ridiculous a notion.

These bets are ridiculous. They become null and void once we sign/sell a player because, like last season, Clough might realise we need a defender and sign one reversing our fortunes and propelling us up the table. Even if we don't sign anybody before January I can't see Clough not making changes in January. If I'm being honest.

What records were they?

[Amber Andy]

Since when did league appearances and experience become a replacement thing?

You let a striker go, you bring one in... that's a replacement.

You let Rawson go, we bring in Harbottle... that's a replacement.

Spot on Bobby.

[stagmanrob]

I get what Marky Mark was saying about Clough has kept us informed all the way about what players he was after, and he has strictly stuck to that plan.

However, it isn't a case of people ignoring it and spitting the dummy out after he has done what he said.

We disagreed with that plan from the outset.

We all hoped he was going to bring in a centre half. He always stated that he was bringing in one on loan (Harbottle) but we all disagreed that a young lad on loan wasn't enough, we at the very least needed another.

Clough has indeed been very honest about his plan, but all of us who did not agree with that plan were all hoping he was being a bit flexible with his true intentions and playing his cards close to his chest....turns out he was being 100% honest (commendable) and we were wrong to hope that he wasn't going to be.

We are one or two knocks or suspensions in the defensive area from being desperately short, even more so now there is an insistance on playing three centre halves rather than two like we did last season.

That's also a difference between this season and last that isn't being factored in as much with all these stats and comparisons being thrown about. We appear shorter in that department because we are playing one more of them every game...and given the ages of two of them, their legs aren't going to see them complete the majority of a 46 game season anyway - it would be madness to assume they will manage to do so.

And no matter how much Clough factors in Hawkins as a centre half, he scares the life out of the majority of us playing there, far more than Rawson ever did. If Rawson was susceptible to a mistake, then how do you judge Hawkins?
He's a great option at centre half against the hoof ball teams, but beyond that, please god no.

[Amber Andy]

I get what Marky Mark was saying about Clough has kept us informed all the way about what players he was after, and he has strictly stuck to that plan.

However, it isn't a case of people ignoring it and spitting the dummy out after he has done what he said.

We disagreed with that plan from the outset.

We all hoped he was going to bring in a centre half. He always stated that he was bringing in one on loan (Harbottle) but we all disagreed that a young lad on loan wasn't enough, we at the very least needed another.

Clough has indeed been very honest about his plan, but all of us who did not agree with that plan were all hoping he was being a bit flexible with his true intentions and playing his cards close to his chest....turns out he was being 100% honest (commendable) and we were wrong to hope that he wasn't going to be.

We are one or two knocks or suspensions in the defensive area from being desperately short, even more so now there is an insistance on playing three centre halves rather than two like we did last season.

That's also a difference between this season and last that isn't being factored in as much with all these stats and comparisons being thrown about. We appear shorter in that department because we are playing one more of them every game...and given the ages of two of them, their legs aren't going to see them complete the majority of a 46 game season anyway - it would be madness to assume they will manage to do so.

And no matter how much Clough factors in Hawkins as a centre half, he scares the life out of the majority of us playing there, far more than Rawson ever did. If Rawson was susceptible to a mistake, then how do you judge Hawkins?
He's a great option at centre half against the hoof ball teams, but beyond that, please god no.

I get what Marky Mark was saying about Clough has kept us informed all the way about what players he was after, and he has strictly stuck to that plan.

However, it isn't a case of people ignoring it and spitting the dummy out after he has done what he said.

We disagreed with that plan from the outset.

We all hoped he was going to bring in a centre half. He always stated that he was bringing in one on loan (Harbottle) but we all disagreed that a young lad on loan wasn't enough, we at the very least needed another.

Clough has indeed been very honest about his plan, but all of us who did not agree with that plan were all hoping he was being a bit flexible with his true intentions and playing his cards close to his chest....turns out he was being 100% honest (commendable) and we were wrong to hope that he wasn't going to be.

We are one or two knocks or suspensions in the defensive area from being desperately short, even more so now there is an insistance on playing three centre halves rather than two like we did last season.

That's also a difference between this season and last that isn't being factored in as much with all these stats and comparisons being thrown about. We appear shorter in that department because we are playing one more of them every game...and given the ages of two of them, their legs aren't going to see them complete the majority of a 46 game season anyway - it would be madness to assume they will manage to do so.

And no matter how much Clough factors in Hawkins as a centre half, he scares the life out of the majority of us playing there, far more than Rawson ever did. If Rawson was susceptible to a mistake, then how do you judge Hawkins?
He's a great option at centre half against the hoof ball teams, but beyond that, please god no.

It is your right to disagree with NC's plan. But the constant drip, drip, drip of he needs to sign a centre half and someone to replace Johnson has become boring. Like you say NC was upfront with his plan and wasn't going to change his mind. Swan and Harbottle are the replacements. Time will tell if they prove adequate and whether your and others concerns are correct.

[Hon Sec]

Both at this stage are our top goal scorers.