What a shock

[MTFCMusings]

I thought we were much improved, especially the second half and I am very happy with the point . The reality is we dropped 2 valuable home points against what appeared to be a very poor Vale side seemingly occupying a false position in the Table and we still haven't won for 13 games. Lets hope we can take last night's improvement to Exeter..Quinn was immense and I thought Rawson and Clarke ( when he came on ) were excellent .

Port Vale appeared to be poor and seemingly occupying a false position.

Could you stretch perhaps to thinking we were quite good and are seemingly occupying a false position?

None of the underlying numbers have Port Vale as occupying a false position, and they were missing their top scorer. Probably just an off night as far as they were concerned, or we didn't allow them to play well.

[Sedgwick]

I thought we were much improved, especially the second half and I am very happy with the point . The reality is we dropped 2 valuable home points against what appeared to be a very poor Vale side seemingly occupying a false position in the Table and we still haven't won for 13 games. Lets hope we can take last night's improvement to Exeter..Quinn was immense and I thought Rawson and Clarke ( when he came on ) were excellent .

Port Vale appeared to be poor and seemingly occupying a false position.

Could you stretch perhaps to thinking we were quite good and are seemingly occupying a false position?

None of the underlying numbers have Port Vale as occupying a false position, and they were missing their top scorer. Probably just an off night as far as they were concerned, or we didn't allow them to play well.

You'll only know who is occupying a false position come may.

We didn't allow them to play, they rarely made more than 4/5 passes before we won it back or they gave it away.

[MTFCMusings]

I thought we were much improved, especially the second half and I am very happy with the point . The reality is we dropped 2 valuable home points against what appeared to be a very poor Vale side seemingly occupying a false position in the Table and we still haven't won for 13 games. Lets hope we can take last night's improvement to Exeter..Quinn was immense and I thought Rawson and Clarke ( when he came on ) were excellent .

Port Vale appeared to be poor and seemingly occupying a false position.

Could you stretch perhaps to thinking we were quite good and are seemingly occupying a false position?

None of the underlying numbers have Port Vale as occupying a false position, and they were missing their top scorer. Probably just an off night as far as they were concerned, or we didn't allow them to play well.

You'll only know who is occupying a false position come may.

We didn't allow them to play, they rarely made more than 4/5 passes before we won it back or they gave it away.

Yes, obviously I meant currently over a relatively small sample size.

Likewise, the numbers do not have us occupying a false position currently based on performances.

[Sedgwick]

I thought we were much improved, especially the second half and I am very happy with the point . The reality is we dropped 2 valuable home points against what appeared to be a very poor Vale side seemingly occupying a false position in the Table and we still haven't won for 13 games. Lets hope we can take last night's improvement to Exeter..Quinn was immense and I thought Rawson and Clarke ( when he came on ) were excellent .

Port Vale appeared to be poor and seemingly occupying a false position.

Could you stretch perhaps to thinking we were quite good and are seemingly occupying a false position?

None of the underlying numbers have Port Vale as occupying a false position, and they were missing their top scorer. Probably just an off night as far as they were concerned, or we didn't allow them to play well.

You'll only know who is occupying a false position come may.

We didn't allow them to play, they rarely made more than 4/5 passes before we won it back or they gave it away.

Yes, obviously I meant currently over a relatively small sample size.

Likewise, the numbers do not have us occupying a false position currently based on performances.

And "the numbers" fail to account for a few things don't they. Not sure what you're getting at, but we will be fine this season

[MTFCMusings]

Yes, of course they do, they're a performance indicator, so do not take into account anything that doesn't happen on the pitch.

I'm not 'getting at' anything, just replying to Broomo's initial statement that Port Vale are occupying a false position.

[kevin kents tasce]

The numbers are simply performance indicators. They are valuable data, but should always be taken together with the eye test.

I think what Musings is saying is that we have been poor to the eye and also in the data, which is why we deserve to be where we are.

Everyone expected Vale to be really good last night, based upon their league position, but the numbers indicated that they are average. This played out to be correct.

Last season it was Colchester. At this stage of the season they were performing well above their data. When they came to the mill, this forum was full of people saying how good they were going to be, but they were crap. I predicted that they would sink like a stone one Jevhani Brown stopped scoring - and they did.

I guess Vale will do the same this year.

[MTFCMusings]

The numbers are simply performance indicators. They are valuable data, but should always be taken together with the eye test.

I think what Musings is saying is that we have been poor to the eye and also in the data, which is why we deserve to be where we are.

Everyone expected Vale to be really good last night, based upon their league position, but the numbers indicated that they are average. This played out to be correct.

Last season it was Colchester. At this stage of the season they were performing well above their data. When they came to the mill, this forum was full of people saying how good they were going to be, but they were crap. I predicted that they would sink like a stone one Jevhani Brown stopped scoring - and they did.

I guess Vale will do the same this year.

Half right on what I was saying KKT.

Correct about us, but Vale's numbers are good, rather than average. They're not in a false position according to the underlying data.

[bear 73]

It was nice to see our defending improve, and thought Hewitt was more comfortable at full back, when Forrester, Nartey, Maris, Stirk are added to the mix more solidarity in defence and midfield, will give space and confidence to our Attacking players.
Port Vale manager said when you have bad games its nice to come away with something, meaning all teams have a off day.
Not many fans thought we would make Port Vale look so bad, just the 3 points missing.
Strange so many people in the game think we have good players and a good manager, perhaps players not available have affected our results, something a few fans cannot get their head round

[broomo]

Yes, of course they do, they're a performance indicator, so do not take into account anything that doesn't happen on the pitch.

I'm not 'getting at' anything, just replying to Broomo's initial statement that Port Vale are occupying a false position.

To be clear, I wasn't implying Port Vale are in a false position.

I used that part of Diablo's comment to highlight that he thinks they were poor and in a false position without considering that it was us who played well.

Every man and his dog could see we deserved the 3 points.

[MTFCMusings]

Yes, of course they do, they're a performance indicator, so do not take into account anything that doesn't happen on the pitch.

I'm not 'getting at' anything, just replying to Broomo's initial statement that Port Vale are occupying a false position.

To be clear, I wasn't implying Port Vale are in a false position.

I used that part of Diablo's comment to highlight that he thinks they were poor and in a false position without considering that it was us who played well.

Every man and his dog could see we deserved the 3 points.

Apologies, I didn't read Diablo's comments.

[bigalstag1]

After a 1-1 draw we are now world beaters. Only on here. We improved last night, but the the starting point point was rock bottom from Saturday. Perhaps if we could string two results together, beginning with this coming Saturday, I might believe we've turned the corner, but one decent performance doesn't make much difference. Another loss and the teams in the middle of the table are starting to pull away from us

[Jamie]

After a 1-1 draw we are now world beaters. Only on here. We improved last night, but the the starting point point was rock bottom from Saturday. Perhaps if we could string two results together, beginning with this coming Saturday, I might believe we've turned the corner, but one decent performance doesn't make much difference. Another loss and the teams in the middle of the table are starting to pull away from us

Exactly, this is my point... how anyone can be happy with another draw at home, after a hard-working but quality lacking performance where we didn't put a very poor Vale side to the slaughter i'll never know.

I wasn't at Northampton so perhaps not as low moral wise as others, i'm judging purely on what i saw last night. If we aren't beating teams like that at home its going to be a very very tough season.

We're desperate for 3/4 quality players in January. We need a right winger, a solid CB (maybe the 2 we have injured can do it?), a striker to replace Johnson who clearly doesn't want to be here and perahps even another winger as backup for the new RW and Quinn.

[MutinyOnTheCounty]

After a 1-1 draw we are now world beaters. Only on here. We improved last night, but the the starting point point was rock bottom from Saturday. Perhaps if we could string two results together, beginning with this coming Saturday, I might believe we've turned the corner, but one decent performance doesn't make much difference. Another loss and the teams in the middle of the table are starting to pull away from us

Imo, we are badly lacking confidence as much as anything else. When confidence is low then morale and quality tend to suffer badly, making even a reasonable squad look poor.

Getting 3 or 4 new faces in Jan would help, especially defenders. But if confidence hasn't recovered then they'll soon look like the 'worst team ever' again....

[arsene wengers coat]

The shock of the evening was actually how well we played.

Clough has to get these lads to enjoy themselves, play with a bit of freedom and confidence. Bowery can be the best player on the pitch with a smile on his face, or the worst player when he's feeling maligned.

The performance level was there to see and I expect the stats back that up. We need to maintain it and results will follow.

[Sedgwick]

After a 1-1 draw we are now world beaters. Only on here. We improved last night, but the the starting point point was rock bottom from Saturday. Perhaps if we could string two results together, beginning with this coming Saturday, I might believe we've turned the corner, but one decent performance doesn't make much difference. Another loss and the teams in the middle of the table are starting to pull away from us

Exactly, this is my point... how anyone can be happy with another draw at home, after a hard-working but quality lacking performance where we didn't put a very poor Vale side to the slaughter i'll never know.

I wasn't at Northampton so perhaps not as low moral wise as others, i'm judging purely on what i saw last night. If we aren't beating teams like that at home its going to be a very very tough season.

We're desperate for 3/4 quality players in January. We need a right winger, a solid CB (maybe the 2 we have injured can do it?), a striker to replace Johnson who clearly doesn't want to be here and perahps even another winger as backup for the new RW and Quinn.

Christ, improvement has to start somewhere and it did with last nights performance, and to the above no ones saying were world beaters.. you two just can't stand a bit of positivity can you.... Still not a full strength and we did so well, not really hard to comprehend why people are happy with what they saw?

After a lot of doubts over many things, like the Manager, the players wanting to play for him etc put it all to bed. Were in trouble at the minute and the man to sort it out is already here. Not every player is right but that will be addressed.

"Aren't beating teams like that?" You mean a side sat third in the league, is that your genuine expectation that should be batter everyone at home? PortVale aren't rubbish, we made them look rubbish and they did well to get a point. Really sounds like you would have preferred another loss.

[Sedgwick]

The shock of the evening was actually how well we played.

Clough has to get these lads to enjoy themselves, play with a bit of freedom and confidence. Bowery can be the best player on the pitch with a smile on his face, or the worst player when he's feeling maligned.

The performance level was there to see and I expect the stats back that up. We need to maintain it and results will follow.

Funny how many players hate playing against him, his size and strength when he's running at defenders is enough to be an asset in league two.

[Dan]

People call gaz moose a troll need to read this thread as there are a couple in here worse than he is.

[Big yella]

We're desperate for 3/4 quality players in January.

Isn’t that our problem, the players are only three quarters of the quality needed.

[diablo]

We are where we are for a reason and at the end of the day it was a very good point , but one decent performance doesn’t make a season, they have to keep repeating it

[MutinyOnTheCounty]

We are where we are for a reason and at the end of the day it was a very good point , but one decent performance doesn’t make a season, they have to keep repeating it

I hope a couple of draws against Exeter & Tranmere would give us that base to build on. Steady the ship first before ordering full sail

A few games of gritty determined consolidation are badly needed first, imo