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Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby oldweststander » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:12 am

A great deal is made,on this thread that the players are "Nigel's signings" well maybe that is correct but it has been made clear on several occasions that they were not his first choices.

So who is at fault, Nigel says I want this player, he is available, Mr Sharpe steps in and makes an offer and opens negotiations but the player goes elsewhere, is that Nigel's fault?

Add to that the Naylor issue, and I bet he's pleased with his change of heart, injury to James Perch and the signing of two last minute centre backs who seemingly both were either out injured or carrying an injury, alk added up to a recipe for the current disaster.

I'm a Nigel Clough fan, supporters have been hoping for him for years, now we have him and all we need now is a little luck and scramble a win. Would any available manager be any better with the current staff, I think not.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby bellwhiff » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:17 am

oldweststander wrote:A great deal is made,on this thread that the players are "Nigel's signings" well maybe that is correct but it has been made clear on several occasions that they were not his first choices.

So who is at fault, Nigel says I want this player, he is available, Mr Sharpe steps in and makes an offer and opens negotiations but the player goes elsewhere, is that Nigel's fault?

Add to that the Naylor issue, and I bet he's pleased with his change of heart, injury to James Perch and the signing of two last minute centre backs who seemingly both were either out injured or carrying an injury, alk added up to a recipe for the current disaster.

I'm a Nigel Clough fan, supporters have been hoping for him for years, now we have him and all we need now is a little luck and scramble a win. Would any available manager be any better with the current staff, I think not.

If you think it’s good man management to tell someone that they’re a second choice then I suggest you reconsider
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Amber Andy » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:24 am

bellwhiff wrote:
oldweststander wrote:A great deal is made,on this thread that the players are "Nigel's signings" well maybe that is correct but it has been made clear on several occasions that they were not his first choices.

So who is at fault, Nigel says I want this player, he is available, Mr Sharpe steps in and makes an offer and opens negotiations but the player goes elsewhere, is that Nigel's fault?

Add to that the Naylor issue, and I bet he's pleased with his change of heart, injury to James Perch and the signing of two last minute centre backs who seemingly both were either out injured or carrying an injury, alk added up to a recipe for the current disaster.

I'm a Nigel Clough fan, supporters have been hoping for him for years, now we have him and all we need now is a little luck and scramble a win. Would any available manager be any better with the current staff, I think not.

If you think it’s good man management to tell someone that they’re a second choice then I suggest you reconsider
I think you make a good point.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:24 am

bellwhiff wrote:
oldweststander wrote:A great deal is made,on this thread that the players are "Nigel's signings" well maybe that is correct but it has been made clear on several occasions that they were not his first choices.

So who is at fault, Nigel says I want this player, he is available, Mr Sharpe steps in and makes an offer and opens negotiations but the player goes elsewhere, is that Nigel's fault?

Add to that the Naylor issue, and I bet he's pleased with his change of heart, injury to James Perch and the signing of two last minute centre backs who seemingly both were either out injured or carrying an injury, alk added up to a recipe for the current disaster.

I'm a Nigel Clough fan, supporters have been hoping for him for years, now we have him and all we need now is a little luck and scramble a win. Would any available manager be any better with the current staff, I think not.

If you think it’s good man management to tell someone that they’re a second choice then I suggest you reconsider


The PFA got involved when he was at Derby due to his slating style of management
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Bradders » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:05 am

bellwhiff wrote:
oldweststander wrote:A great deal is made,on this thread that the players are "Nigel's signings" well maybe that is correct but it has been made clear on several occasions that they were not his first choices.

So who is at fault, Nigel says I want this player, he is available, Mr Sharpe steps in and makes an offer and opens negotiations but the player goes elsewhere, is that Nigel's fault?

Add to that the Naylor issue, and I bet he's pleased with his change of heart, injury to James Perch and the signing of two last minute centre backs who seemingly both were either out injured or carrying an injury, alk added up to a recipe for the current disaster.

I'm a Nigel Clough fan, supporters have been hoping for him for years, now we have him and all we need now is a little luck and scramble a win. Would any available manager be any better with the current staff, I think not.

If you think it’s good man management to tell someone that they’re a second choice then I suggest you reconsider

It could work for some individuals, as a challenge to prove him wrong. But for virtually the whole team to be labelled "second choice" will just look like an excuse. Some players will just give up, if they feel that their efforts are dismissed like that. Some need encouragement and praise, others a kick up the butt.

But in the end, it doesn't look like we have anyone who's desperate to prove their worth and I'm not convinced that Clough is capable of inducing more commitment. Evans would have made them fearful, but somehow the players seem to have got used to trotting back to the changing room pointless.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:43 am

It can also be pointed out that Nigel Clough only signed one of the four players who started in the early games who were missing yesterday - Stephen Quinn. He was our only key addition in the January transfer window and he was initially on loan.

James Perch and George Maris were signed by Graham Coughlan and Kellan Gordon was signed by John Dempster.

Regarding Clough's signings, only three of them have so far improved our squad:
Stephen Quinn
Nathan Bishop
Oli Hawkins

Elliott Hewitt has done ok at times but I'm not sure he is the long term answer to our centre half problems. Gets knocked off the ball and is not commanding enough in the air. Surely he was just signed as a squad utility player.

The rest have been very disappointing:
Oli Sarkic (injured)
Danny Johnson - Key signing who has performed below average to date
Rhys Oates - As above
Ryan Stirk (injured) - Inexperienced young lad who has only started once and is injured
Ryan Burke - inexperienced left back who does not look good enough.
Richard Nartey (injured) - Inexperienced emergency centre half signing who was awful against Walsall.
Will Forrester (injured) - Inexperienced emergency centre half signing who was injured when we signed him
George Shelvey - Inexperienced keeper who has been very poor in the two B Team Trophy games

That's a poor return from two transfer windows.

Players signed by Graham Coughlan
Ollie Clarke
George Maris
Farrend Rawson
James Perch
Harry Charsley
George Lapslie

Players signed by John Dempster
Kellan Gordon
James Clarke

Young Lads
Tyrese Sinclair
Jason Law
Keaton Ward

JR must be wanting to tear his very expensive hair out.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby chip63 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:04 am

A bit unfair with the signings made, you could include Lapslie Who he gave a new contract and Oates is a good signing who showed yesterday he can offer something in the attack.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:22 am

George Lapslie was an easy signing to make because Graham Coughlan had already brought him into the building. Nigel Clough and his recruitment team cannot take credit for Lapslie.

Rhys Oates has been very disappointing to date. Plenty of effort but very little end product.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Sedgwick » Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:52 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:It can also be pointed out that Nigel Clough only signed one of the four players who started in the early games who were missing yesterday - Stephen Quinn. He was our only key addition in the January transfer window and he was initially on loan.

James Perch and George Maris were signed by Graham Coughlan and Kellan Gordon was signed by John Dempster.

Regarding Clough's signings, only three of them have so far improved our squad:
Stephen Quinn
Nathan Bishop
Oli Hawkins

Elliott Hewitt has done ok at times but I'm not sure he is the long term answer to our centre half problems. Gets knocked off the ball and is not commanding enough in the air. Surely he was just signed as a squad utility player.

The rest have been very disappointing:
Oli Sarkic (injured)
Danny Johnson - Key signing who has performed below average to date
Rhys Oates - As above
Ryan Stirk (injured) - Inexperienced young lad who has only started once and is injured
Ryan Burke - inexperienced left back who does not look good enough.
Richard Nartey (injured) - Inexperienced emergency centre half signing who was awful against Walsall.
Will Forrester (injured) - Inexperienced emergency centre half signing who was injured when we signed him
George Shelvey - Inexperienced keeper who has been very poor in the two B Team Trophy games

That's a poor return from two transfer windows.

Players signed by Graham Coughlan
Ollie Clarke
George Maris
Farrend Rawson
James Perch
Harry Charsley
George Lapslie

Players signed by John Dempster
Kellan Gordon
James Clarke

Young Lads
Tyrese Sinclair
Jason Law
Keaton Ward

JR must be wanting to tear his very expensive hair out.


He hasn't been backed imo, were relying on cheap options throughout the squad.

Of those 9 initial targets I think we got 3 of them, Johnson, Bishop and Hawkins.

Not only Naylor we missed out on... multiple players in Scotland were targeted and we couldn't afford, a left back in this league we wouldn't pay a fee for and another CB who's at the top end of league one. Plus the lad from Leicester who chose Burton over us.

Stirk - inexperienced
Burke - inexperienced
Nartey - inexperienced, last minute
Forrester - inexperienced, last minute
Oates - Became available, chose us over wrexham/ Hartlepool
Hewitt - Cheap

Got to question the club why we've signed such inexperienced players, I think the ideal first 11 in preseason, which on paper isn't bad, covered up how poor the squad overall is.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:10 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:It can also be pointed out that Nigel Clough only signed one of the four players who started in the early games who were missing yesterday - Stephen Quinn. He was our only key addition in the January transfer window and he was initially on loan.

James Perch and George Maris were signed by Graham Coughlan and Kellan Gordon was signed by John Dempster.

Regarding Clough's signings, only three of them have so far improved our squad:
Stephen Quinn
Nathan Bishop
Oli Hawkins

Elliott Hewitt has done ok at times but I'm not sure he is the long term answer to our centre half problems. Gets knocked off the ball and is not commanding enough in the air. Surely he was just signed as a squad utility player.

The rest have been very disappointing:
Oli Sarkic (injured)
Danny Johnson - Key signing who has performed below average to date
Rhys Oates - As above
Ryan Stirk (injured) - Inexperienced young lad who has only started once and is injured
Ryan Burke - inexperienced left back who does not look good enough.
Richard Nartey (injured) - Inexperienced emergency centre half signing who was awful against Walsall.
Will Forrester (injured) - Inexperienced emergency centre half signing who was injured when we signed him
George Shelvey - Inexperienced keeper who has been very poor in the two B Team Trophy games

That's a poor return from two transfer windows.

Players signed by Graham Coughlan
Ollie Clarke
George Maris
Farrend Rawson
James Perch
Harry Charsley
George Lapslie

Players signed by John Dempster
Kellan Gordon
James Clarke

Young Lads
Tyrese Sinclair
Jason Law
Keaton Ward

JR must be wanting to tear his very expensive hair out.


He hasn't been backed imo, were relying on cheap options throughout the squad.

Of those 9 initial targets I think we got 3 of them, Johnson, Bishop and Hawkins.

Not only Naylor we missed out on... multiple players in Scotland were targeted and we couldn't afford, a left back in this league we wouldn't pay a fee for and another CB who's at the top end of league one. Plus the lad from Leicester who chose Burton over us.

Stirk - inexperienced
Burke - inexperienced
Nartey - inexperienced, last minute
Forrester - inexperienced, last minute
Oates - Became available, chose us over wrexham/ Hartlepool
Hewitt - Cheap

Got to question the club why we've signed such inexperienced players, I think the ideal first 11 in preseason, which on paper isn't bad, covered up how poor the squad overall is.


Spoiling the ship for a ha’porth of tar springs to mind.

I’ve said for a while that the budget appears to have been considerably reduced and the directors have been relying too heavily on Clough’s reputation of building good sides from cheap players.

I heard some time ago that David Sharpe had come on board with a view to eventually buying the club and just dismissed it as fantasy. I’m not too sure now as he appears to be controlling the purse strings and if I were cynical I may speculate he was driving the price down.

Whatever the truth of the matter, I just hope we pull through this mini crisis which appears self inflicted.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Conker » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:21 pm

We’ll continue this small budget myth then yeah? Just because it’s obviously not grossly overinflated like it was under Evans, Dempster and to a lesser extent Coughlan, doesn’t mean we don’t have a very competitive budget (Clough admitted that himself)

Teams with less resources have recruited far better so get the budget excuse out the window, it’s nonsense.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby bear 73 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:34 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:
oldweststander wrote:A great deal is made,on this thread that the players are "Nigel's signings" well maybe that is correct but it has been made clear on several occasions that they were not his first choices.

So who is at fault, Nigel says I want this player, he is available, Mr Sharpe steps in and makes an offer and opens negotiations but the player goes elsewhere, is that Nigel's fault?

Add to that the Naylor issue, and I bet he's pleased with his change of heart, injury to James Perch and the signing of two last minute centre backs who seemingly both were either out injured or carrying an injury, alk added up to a recipe for the current disaster.

I'm a Nigel Clough fan, supporters have been hoping for him for years, now we have him and all we need now is a little luck and scramble a win. Would any available manager be any better with the current staff, I think not.

If you think it’s good man management to tell someone that they’re a second choice then I suggest you reconsider
I think you make a good point.

Any youth development player coming in through a injury to a player thinking he is first choice is deluded.
Fans love to see them but when things go wrong blame the manager Burke, Ward, Sharpe are not regular first team players,
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:43 pm

Bradders wrote:Maybe calling his selected 11 "second choice" isn't boosting morale that much!


It was a statement of fact, if players like James Clark, Ryan Burke and Harry Charsley can't see that then they need help
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby BH_Stag » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:54 pm

Sedgwick I’m honestly shocked you think he hasn’t been backed.

He didn’t sign Hewitt because he was cheap, he signed him because he wanted him and thought he could fill in as a utility player. He was his first signing and somebody he was happy to sign very early in the window when there was still so many other options out there.

Stirk and Burke were signings to bolster the squad and were never identified to be starters. Stirk probably signed as 5th choice midfielder at best, and Clough publicly said he was very pleased with the midfield he had already, therefore a young loan option to provide competition made perfect sense on paper. It wasn’t because it was cheap, it was what he felt was required and a completely normal signing to make.

Nartey and Forrester were signed as a result of our failings in the transfer window. We had bids in for players who would have been on substantially more money. Just because we didn’t land them because they went to the league above and we ended up scraping the barrel at the 11th hour doesn’t mean he wasn’t backed - that budget was clearly there and available to him, he just didn’t manage to spend it. They simply can not be used as an example of not being backed when we know what we know about other targets.

He was backed in January when we needed to pay a fee for Lapslie. He was backed when he wanted to pay a fee for Hawkins in the summer. Backed in signing Johnson and that was his top two targets secured up top. Oates and Quinn will be on good money. He opted to give players like Gordon, Charsley, McLaughlin new contracts and fill those positions in the squad and was supported in doing so. I believe he has been backed and was given the license to shape the squad as he saw fit and it hasn’t materialised. Fair enough you may know about a left back we wouldn’t pay for, but I don’t think that takes it to a level to say he hasn’t been supported
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:02 pm

BH_Stag wrote:Sedgwick I’m honestly shocked you think he hasn’t been backed.

He didn’t sign Hewitt because he was cheap, he signed him because he wanted him and thought he could fill in as a utility player. He was his first signing and somebody he was happy to sign very early in the window when there was still so many other options out there.

Stirk and Burke were signings to bolster the squad and were never identified to be starters. Stirk probably signed as 5th choice midfielder at best, and Clough publicly said he was very pleased with the midfield he had already, therefore a young loan option to provide competition made perfect sense on paper. It wasn’t because it was cheap, it was what he felt was required and a completely normal signing to make.

Nartey and Forrester were signed as a result of our failings in the transfer window. We had bids in for players who would have been on substantially more money. Just because we didn’t land them because they went to the league above and we ended up scraping the barrel at the 11th hour doesn’t mean he wasn’t backed - that budget was clearly there and available to him, he just didn’t manage to spend it. They simply can not be used as an example of not being backed when we know what we know about other targets.

He was backed in January when we needed to pay a fee for Lapslie. He was backed when he wanted to pay a fee for Hawkins in the summer. Backed in signing Johnson and that was his top two targets secured up top. Oates and Quinn will be on good money. He opted to give players like Gordon, Charsley, McLaughlin new contracts and fill those positions in the squad and was supported in doing so. I believe he has been backed and was given the license to shape the squad as he saw fit and it hasn’t materialised. Fair enough you may know about a left back we wouldn’t pay for, but I don’t think that takes it to a level to say he hasn’t been supported


Some sense at last
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby NEStag » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:08 pm

Three weeks ago it was the defence.

Two weeks ago it was Hawkins having to play in defence meant the forward line was weak.

And this week it’s the midfield.

I had a double take when he said we were missing Stirk. As said above he’s fifth choice and when he’s been fit he’s barely played him.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:10 pm

NEStag wrote:Three weeks ago it was the defence.

Two weeks ago it was Hawkins having to play in defence meant the forward line was weak.

And this week it’s the midfield.

I had a double take when he said we were missing Stirk. As said above he’s fifth choice and when he’s been fit he’s barely played him.


He's waffling as he hasn't a clue what to do next
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Rob » Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:24 pm

NEStag wrote:Three weeks ago it was the defence.

Two weeks ago it was Hawkins having to play in defence meant the forward line was weak.

And this week it’s the midfield.

I had a double take when he said we were missing Stirk. As said above he’s fifth choice and when he’s been fit he’s barely played him.


Stirk would have played in the recent games had he been fit, ahead of the likes of Charsley and Ward, that's why we've missed him.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:35 pm

Stirk has made two starts for Birmingham City and has made one fairly average start for the Stags in a defeat at Walsall. He has not produced the goods on the pitch yet so to compare his loss to George Maris and Stephen Quinn is a very weak nonsensical argument by Nigel Clough. I bet most of the other League 2 managers don't even know who Stirk is.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby broomo » Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:38 pm

BH_Stag wrote:Sedgwick I’m honestly shocked you think he hasn’t been backed.

He didn’t sign Hewitt because he was cheap, he signed him because he wanted him and thought he could fill in as a utility player. He was his first signing and somebody he was happy to sign very early in the window when there was still so many other options out there.

Stirk and Burke were signings to bolster the squad and were never identified to be starters. Stirk probably signed as 5th choice midfielder at best, and Clough publicly said he was very pleased with the midfield he had already, therefore a young loan option to provide competition made perfect sense on paper. It wasn’t because it was cheap, it was what he felt was required and a completely normal signing to make.

Nartey and Forrester were signed as a result of our failings in the transfer window. We had bids in for players who would have been on substantially more money. Just because we didn’t land them because they went to the league above and we ended up scraping the barrel at the 11th hour doesn’t mean he wasn’t backed - that budget was clearly there and available to him, he just didn’t manage to spend it. They simply can not be used as an example of not being backed when we know what we know about other targets.

He was backed in January when we needed to pay a fee for Lapslie. He was backed when he wanted to pay a fee for Hawkins in the summer. Backed in signing Johnson and that was his top two targets secured up top. Oates and Quinn will be on good money. He opted to give players like Gordon, Charsley, McLaughlin new contracts and fill those positions in the squad and was supported in doing so. I believe he has been backed and was given the license to shape the squad as he saw fit and it hasn’t materialised. Fair enough you may know about a left back we wouldn’t pay for, but I don’t think that takes it to a level to say he hasn’t been supported


I agree with you. I don't think it's fair to say JR hasn't backed him. To me looking from the outside it seems one thing JR has always done is financially support his managers.

It's more a case of the signings not working out as hoped or expected. At least so far.

None of Hewitt, Johnson or Oates have had the kind of impact I hoped for.

I'm still hopeful all 3 will cone good but I do expect if NC is still here in January he will be looking for additions and admitting that for whatever reason some of the signings haven't done enough. It does happen.

I also expect if he's still here that JR will sign off any deals NC asks for.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Rob » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:24 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Stirk has made two starts for Birmingham City and has made one fairly average start for the Stags in a defeat at Walsall. He has not produced the goods on the pitch yet so to compare his loss to George Maris and Stephen Quinn is a very weak nonsensical argument by Nigel Clough. I bet most of the other League 2 managers don't even know who Stirk is.


But he would have been given more game time due to injuries, hence we missed him. He was clearly ahead of Charsley and Ward. I understood what he meant.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:43 pm

.....but what has Ryan Stirk actually done to justify this high praise of him? He may turn out to be a great signing but it's far too early to say at the moment. It must also be a real kick in the teeth for the other midfield players like Harry Charsley, Keaton Ward and Jason Law. It's not likely to boost their confidence. Why do we even have them in the squad if Nigel Clough clearly thinks that they are not good enough. If that's the case then he should have released them.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby NEStag » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:11 pm

People are looking for reasons beyond ‘we are raspberry’. It’s human nature - look for what’s happened and then backfill it as a cause.

Remember the pitch last year - we were all saying if only we had a decent pitch then that would suit our style and we would be great. This year the pitch is great and we are still raspberry. Pitch as a reason has been forgotten.

Then it’s the refs. Then it’s Naylor not signing. Then it’s the defence. Then it’s injuries. Then it’s the midfield.

Then eventually it’s (partly) Stirk being out, which as tippy tappy points out beggars belief and is where I tuned out when it was not credible.

I also don’t want Clough sacked. I don’t believe it will do anything other than spend more of the Radfords money, which might just cause them to pack it all in.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Gruff » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:57 pm

Here to be shot down....

Let an experienced manager take the time to build a team/squad. You take a thrown of the dice and hope you get it right and then adjust. The need for instant success has crippled this club for the past 6 years, and we're heading down the same road again.

Flynn didn't create a world beating team overnight, and what league are Newport in???

Suck it up, back off, support the team/manager.... Some of us have been doing it for longer than most... This is Mansfield
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Re: Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

Postby Rob » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:35 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:.....but what has Ryan Stirk actually done to justify this high praise of him? He may turn out to be a great signing but it's far too early to say at the moment. It must also be a real kick in the teeth for the other midfield players like Harry Charsley, Keaton Ward and Jason Law. It's not likely to boost their confidence. Why do we even have them in the squad if Nigel Clough clearly thinks that they are not good enough. If that's the case then he should have released them.


Our midfield was terrific at the start of the season so Stirk had to wait his chance. Sadly, when that came he too was injured. I fully understand why our manager says we've missed him, he was next in line. Seems to me you just want another manager sacked. I accept you haven't yet called for his head, but you are pouring quite a lot fuel on the fire, have we learnt nothing?
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