{ the forum }
 
An independent supporters' website dedicated to Mansfield Town FC

Clough in

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

Re: Clough in

Postby Whitehalls Left Foot » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:24 pm

Just cos u have a big name doesn't make you the right fit.

Flicker gets alot of hate from some and alot of praise from others but to compare what he achieved (even tho they bottled it) to what NC has so far is absolutely ridiculous !

I'm not pro or anti any manager, I'm pro mansfield and honestly I see nothing from Clough to give me hope and nothing to show he is on a level with a few of our previous managers.

If our budget is less than previous years is he any better than Murray so far ?

Muzz signed alot of quality that went on to be part of better sides for Evan's and Flicker.
Whitehalls Left Foot
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Kenwood » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:25 pm

Dp1976 wrote:Just out of interest other than Quinn that’s injured are we missing so badly ?


Perch and Maris combined are a big loss. From the moment Coops put Perch at CH last season we played better football and looked to play through midfield with Maris also key too that

At the moment the players in the team have no confidence and the result is lumping it long to Hawkins, the easy option.
Kenwood
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby oldweststander » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:29 pm

What would be achieved by sacking Clough. The only managers interested in coming here would be those who have been sacked by their last club.

The playing staff cannot change until January when we willbe in the thick of a relegation fight and that won't attract any better players than we already have.

The turning point was James Perch's injury and then, for whatever reason, not recruiting a decent centre back.

Someone has to take the wrap for that, should it be Nigel or Sharpe, we don't know and unlikely to ever find out?
oldweststander
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5372
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:17 am

Re: Clough in

Postby StagInHucknall » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:51 pm

adamstag wrote:He’s got to be given more time, sacking him would be madness.

The football is poor, we all know that but i can’t see what sacking him would prove


It’s not madness. JR will be noting the falling attendances at home, the poor morale in the stands, in the dressing room etc and have no choice but to act sooner or later.
StagInHucknall
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:25 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby adamstag » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:53 pm

StagInHucknall wrote:
adamstag wrote:He’s got to be given more time, sacking him would be madness.

The football is poor, we all know that but i can’t see what sacking him would prove


It’s not madness. JR will be noting the falling attendances at home, the poor morale in the stands, in the dressing room etc and have no choice but to act sooner or later.


We had 4,600 against oldham, i’d not call that falling attendances, though i do get your point.

I think we’re all massively disappointed with this season, we’ve a “big name” manager for our level and we ended last season on a good run, but the old “who’s going to come in” comment remains.

When quinn and a few other players return and the results remain the same there might be time for a discussion but now isn’t the time to be changing managers.
adamstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 11065
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:20 am

Re: Clough in

Postby Rob » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:54 pm

oldweststander wrote:What would be achieved by sacking Clough. The only managers interested in coming here would be those who have been sacked by their last club.

The playing staff cannot change until January when we willbe in the thick of a relegation fight and that won't attract any better players than we already have.

The turning point was James Perch's injury and then, for whatever reason, not recruiting a decent centre back.

Someone has to take the wrap for that, should it be Nigel or Sharpe, we don't know and unlikely to ever find out?


I agree, any new manager now would only have the same tools to work with. It's time for Clough, his coaches and the players to step up. No improvement by the end of Dec then even my patience will have worn out.
Rob
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 10578
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:33 am

Re: Clough in

Postby broomo » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:56 pm

StagInHucknall wrote:
adamstag wrote:He’s got to be given more time, sacking him would be madness.

The football is poor, we all know that but i can’t see what sacking him would prove


It’s not madness. JR will be noting the falling attendances at home, the poor morale in the stands, in the dressing room etc and have no choice but to act sooner or later.


3900 v Barrow.
4599 v Harrogate.
4566 v Oldham.

JR will be noting what falling attendances?
broomo
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1692
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:55 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby gazza1988 » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:59 pm

Sacking Clough not the right way to go. He's been unfortunate. It is however a big January window for him. This'll be his 3rd transfer window and just has to pull something out the hat. We have to improve.

Give him until January, see where we are. He had the new manager bounce and the players stepped up. So he decided to renew contracts and stick in January. Once the honeymoon period ended the cracks formed again. He started slating the defence and then went with the same again this season. The new manager can't come in and judge the players based on the "bounce" like Clough did.
post meanings:
I know what I'm doing
Just guessing
You're an idiot and I'm poking you with a stick
User avatar
gazza1988
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 18200
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:23 pm
Location: Beeston, Nottingham

Re: Clough in

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:01 pm

Rob wrote:
oldweststander wrote:What would be achieved by sacking Clough. The only managers interested in coming here would be those who have been sacked by their last club.

The playing staff cannot change until January when we willbe in the thick of a relegation fight and that won't attract any better players than we already have.

The turning point was James Perch's injury and then, for whatever reason, not recruiting a decent centre back.

Someone has to take the wrap for that, should it be Nigel or Sharpe, we don't know and unlikely to ever find out?


I agree, any new manager now would only have the same tools to work with. It's time for Clough, his coaches and the players to step up. No improvement by the end of Dec then even my patience will have worn out.
I agree too.
Amber Andy
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 9998
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:38 am

Re: Clough in

Postby chip63 » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:05 pm

What's happened to all the chances we used to create? Not heard from the stat boys about xg for a while.
I'm sure I read about Clough saying Johnson was swayed by the stats from last season and thought he'd be ok here.
I just wish Clough would release that creativity we have again, we've played some wonderful attacking football under Clough and I hope he gets the chance to release it again.
chip63
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3043
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:01 am

Re: Clough in

Postby MTFCMusings » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:06 pm

gazza1988 wrote:Sacking Clough not the right way to go. He's been unfortunate. It is however a big January window for him. This'll be his 3rd transfer window and just has to pull something out the hat. We have to improve.

Give him until January, see where we are. He had the new manager bounce and the players stepped up. So he decided to renew contracts and stick in January. Once the honeymoon period ended the cracks formed again. He started slating the defence and then went with the same again this season. The new manager can't come in and judge the players based on the "bounce" like Clough did.


Im sorry Gazza but he’s not getting to January unless he wins at least one game.
MTFCMusings
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 13581
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:16 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:08 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Sacking Clough not the right way to go. He's been unfortunate. It is however a big January window for him. This'll be his 3rd transfer window and just has to pull something out the hat. We have to improve.

Give him until January, see where we are. He had the new manager bounce and the players stepped up. So he decided to renew contracts and stick in January. Once the honeymoon period ended the cracks formed again. He started slating the defence and then went with the same again this season. The new manager can't come in and judge the players based on the "bounce" like Clough did.


Im sorry Gazza but he’s not getting to January unless he wins at least one game.



If he loses on Tuesday I can see that being it. There's no signs of it turning round any time soon as much as that hurts to say.

Let's see if Quinn can drag us through a game on Tuesday but I'm not hopeful
bobbystagsfan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 10998
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:47 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Sedgwick » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:09 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Sacking Clough not the right way to go. He's been unfortunate. It is however a big January window for him. This'll be his 3rd transfer window and just has to pull something out the hat. We have to improve.

Give him until January, see where we are. He had the new manager bounce and the players stepped up. So he decided to renew contracts and stick in January. Once the honeymoon period ended the cracks formed again. He started slating the defence and then went with the same again this season. The new manager can't come in and judge the players based on the "bounce" like Clough did.


Im sorry Gazza but he’s not getting to January unless he wins at least one game.


Depends if the club wants to pay off another manager or just sit tight and wait and see what happens.

Can see us doing a Bolton and sticking with... without the sudden charge for promotion unless we actually spend something in Jan to really turn this mess of a squad around.
Sedgwick
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6699
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:01 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Clough in

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:12 pm

How long did Clough sign a contract for? 3 years? If so that's two years of paying him off, and Crosby and Simon Clough too. Not sure if there's anyone else who would leave if Clough did, but sacking all these staff members won't be cheap either.
bobbystagsfan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 10998
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:47 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:22 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:How long did Clough sign a contract for? 3 years? If so that's two years of paying him off, and Crosby and Simon Clough too. Not sure if there's anyone else who would leave if Clough did, but sacking all these staff members won't be cheap either.

No it wouldn't. I also think bringing in a new manager won't do much to change things.

We need to trust the management team we have to improve things with what we have and improve the squad in January.
Amber Andy
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 9998
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:38 am

Re: Clough in

Postby Whitehalls Left Foot » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:25 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:How long did Clough sign a contract for? 3 years? If so that's two years of paying him off, and Crosby and Simon Clough too. Not sure if there's anyone else who would leave if Clough did, but sacking all these staff members won't be cheap either.


I'm not saying that I'm fully done with Clough and I do believe he will get at least until end of November however, the cost of sacking NC and his staff vs the cost of relegation and funding 1, 2, 3 years of National League and any promotion push still costs with reduced income and it would be JR obvs funding it !
Whitehalls Left Foot
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Sedgwick » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:28 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:How long did Clough sign a contract for? 3 years? If so that's two years of paying him off, and Crosby and Simon Clough too. Not sure if there's anyone else who would leave if Clough did, but sacking all these staff members won't be cheap either.


I can see us sticking with him, limping into Jan around the bottom 4. The odd win and draw and then some player movement.

Burke, J. Clarke, Nartey, Bowrey, Hewitt, Clarke Out... on loan or whatever is needed to shift them. Some are not good enough and some are not ready.

Bring in experienced players. Clough said at the back end of last year the leagues best players were the oldest and most experienced who had played at a higher level.... go and sign some. Get a leader at the back and a player with a bit of spark in midfield and a forward that actually looks interested.

This side lacks a spine, Bishop is a brilliant starting point, go and build something worth watching in front of him.
Sedgwick
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6699
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:01 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Clough in

Postby bellwhiff » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:29 pm

At a minimum I think the scouting team needs sacking before they screw up another window.
Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier...

Samuel Johnson
User avatar
bellwhiff
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 19498
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:31 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:How long did Clough sign a contract for? 3 years? If so that's two years of paying him off, and Crosby and Simon Clough too. Not sure if there's anyone else who would leave if Clough did, but sacking all these staff members won't be cheap either.


I can see us sticking with him, limping into Jan around the bottom 4. The odd win and draw and then some player movement.

Burke, J. Clarke, Nartey, Bowrey, Hewitt, Clarke Out... on loan or whatever is needed to shift them. Some are not good enough and some are not ready.

Bring in experienced players. Clough said at the back end of last year the leagues best players were the oldest and most experienced who had played at a higher level.... go and sign some. Get a leader at the back and a player with a bit of spark in midfield and a forward that actually looks interested.

This side lacks a spine, Bishop is a brilliant starting point, go and build something worth watching in front of him.


It's a shame Bishop isn't ours. Him and Hawkins have been the only positives really so far. Build a team that works around Hawkins!
bobbystagsfan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 10998
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:47 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby adamstag » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:31 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
Rob wrote:
oldweststander wrote:What would be achieved by sacking Clough. The only managers interested in coming here would be those who have been sacked by their last club.

The playing staff cannot change until January when we willbe in the thick of a relegation fight and that won't attract any better players than we already have.

The turning point was James Perch's injury and then, for whatever reason, not recruiting a decent centre back.

Someone has to take the wrap for that, should it be Nigel or Sharpe, we don't know and unlikely to ever find out?


I agree, any new manager now would only have the same tools to work with. It's time for Clough, his coaches and the players to step up. No improvement by the end of Dec then even my patience will have worn out.
I agree too.


me too :lol:
adamstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 11065
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:20 am

Re: Clough in

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:37 pm

Whitehalls Left Foot wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:How long did Clough sign a contract for? 3 years? If so that's two years of paying him off, and Crosby and Simon Clough too. Not sure if there's anyone else who would leave if Clough did, but sacking all these staff members won't be cheap either.


I'm not saying that I'm fully done with Clough and I do believe he will get at least until end of November however, the cost of sacking NC and his staff vs the cost of relegation and funding 1, 2, 3 years of National League and any promotion push still costs with reduced income and it would be JR obvs funding it !



Yeah and add to the that the sheer embarrassment to the Radfords of being tarnished with another jaunt in the conference.

It will cost them to maintain this. And is suspect they will have a MS Teams meeting that will go something like this:

"Nigel, thanks for trying to operate on a shoestring, but we can't risk it, so please go in to the transfer window and spend what you like on the best you can get. This experiment hasn't worked"
You've got to go there and come back, to know where you've been.
User avatar
arsene wengers coat
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 7847
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:03 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby bigalstag1 » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:50 pm

Sacking a manager wouldn't be cheap, but it would cost less to do that than drop back into non league, because believe me, that's where we are going with this management team.
Clough is almost as anonymous on the sidelines, as his captain is on the park.
He talks about hard work on the training ground, but there is precious little evidence of it during a game.
He has no plan A never mind a plan B, unless that is, knocking the ball across the back line and then booting it 50 yards upfield to nobody in particular.
Anybody that thinks I'm being harsh , had to be there today, to witness just how poor we've become in the last 3 seasons and especially in this.
Don't get rid of him, and we'll be 10 points adrift come January.
bigalstag1
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 736
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:51 am

Re: Clough in

Postby BH_Stag » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:53 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:
Whitehalls Left Foot wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:How long did Clough sign a contract for? 3 years? If so that's two years of paying him off, and Crosby and Simon Clough too. Not sure if there's anyone else who would leave if Clough did, but sacking all these staff members won't be cheap either.


I'm not saying that I'm fully done with Clough and I do believe he will get at least until end of November however, the cost of sacking NC and his staff vs the cost of relegation and funding 1, 2, 3 years of National League and any promotion push still costs with reduced income and it would be JR obvs funding it !



Yeah and add to the that the sheer embarrassment to the Radfords of being tarnished with another jaunt in the conference.

It will cost them to maintain this. And is suspect they will have a MS Teams meeting that will go something like this:

"Nigel, thanks for trying to operate on a shoestring, but we can't risk it, so please go in to the transfer window and spend what you like on the best you can get. This experiment hasn't worked"


He isn’t working on a shoestring whatsoever. We were a whisker away from having the highest paid player the clubs ever had supposedly in Naylor - he had that money available to him, he just didn’t manage to spend it through missing out on targets. Nothing to do with being told to work on a shoestring in my opinion. We paid a fee for Hawkins, Johnson will be on good money.

We paid a fee for Lapslie in Jan and him, Clarke, Quinn, Rawson will all be in good money too. Not to get in to a budget chat but at the very least it’s top 10.
BH_Stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 4353
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:21 am

Re: Clough in

Postby StagInHucknall » Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:00 pm

broomo wrote:
StagInHucknall wrote:
adamstag wrote:He’s got to be given more time, sacking him would be madness.

The football is poor, we all know that but i can’t see what sacking him would prove


It’s not madness. JR will be noting the falling attendances at home, the poor morale in the stands, in the dressing room etc and have no choice but to act sooner or later.


3900 v Barrow.
4599 v Harrogate.
4566 v Oldham.

JR will be noting what falling attendances?


Not sure why you've put it in that funny order.

But here's the home league stats in order for all to see:

Bristol Rovers 6,346 - (1,388 away) = 4958
Newport 3,793 - (156) = 3637
Bradford 6,058 - (1,589) = 4469
Harrogate 4,599 - (155) = 4444
Rochdale 4,336 - (381) = 3955
Barrow 3,931 - (190) = 3741
Oldham 4,526 - (496) = 4030

We can assume Newport is a blip and people were on holiday made other plans and/or 4 games in 20 days is too much etc.

A steady decline.

So as I said JR will be taking note.
StagInHucknall
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:25 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby adamstag » Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:07 pm

StagInHucknall wrote:
broomo wrote:
StagInHucknall wrote:
adamstag wrote:He’s got to be given more time, sacking him would be madness.

The football is poor, we all know that but i can’t see what sacking him would prove


It’s not madness. JR will be noting the falling attendances at home, the poor morale in the stands, in the dressing room etc and have no choice but to act sooner or later.


3900 v Barrow.
4599 v Harrogate.
4566 v Oldham.

JR will be noting what falling attendances?


Not sure why you've put it in that funny order.

But here's the home league stats in order for all to see:

Bristol Rovers 6,346 - (1,388 away) = 4958
Newport 3,793 - (156) = 3637
Bradford 6,058 - (1,589) = 4469
Harrogate 4,599 - (155) = 4444
Rochdale 4,336 - (381) = 3955
Barrow 3,931 - (190) = 3741
Oldham 4,526 - (496) = 4030

We can assume Newport is a blip and people were on holiday made other plans and/or 4 games in 20 days is too much etc.

A steady decline.

So as I said JR will be taking note.


So it’s a steady decline despite the smallest amount of home fans behind the 2nd home game?

right :lol:

I’ll assume logic isn’t your strong suit :D
adamstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 11065
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:20 am

PreviousNext

Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MTFCMusings, northstandstag, patstag, Paulstag, Stag on the Beach, yellowstagsfan and 116 guests