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Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby wink68 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:37 am

Nigel is the right man for the job and will get us up eventually if we are patient. But he has to admit publicly that he's made one hell of a gooseberry up with the defence this summer. Maybe aimed to high and got shafted, Perch injury, though we're making him out to be Bobby Moore now he's out for the season. We were a quality centre half and right back short. We all said it apart from NC. He probably thought so but wouldn't admit it. Yet another season and more of JRs money peed up the wall, but really can't see us getting a better man for the job. We all thought this was the year which is why it's so frustrating watch that shower on Saturday but we just have to accept another season of dross and hope the next two windows sort it. We're frustrated paying 23 quid every week, just think how JR feels, the money he's paying out.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby stag324 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:39 am

bear 73 wrote:Clough has been brought in to manage the club keeping it self supporting.
We can only afford so much on players, their is a budget, players come and players will go,
Sharpe runs the club on behalf of the owners.
The Radfords own the club and like many before them are only willing to lose so much money, their is a cap.
Derby now shows what throwing money at success can do, and history is full of owners with good intentions getting into a financial mess.
Mansfield need to be self supporting and patience is vital.
Sharpe and Clough in, Carolyn and John sleep at night , Flynn spending 4 years and 204 days at Newport leaves them in League 2,
And Clough out after 10 games into his first full season, This has to be The Dumbest post on record


Agreed
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby Amber Andy » Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:49 am

bear 73 wrote:Clough has been brought in to manage the club keeping it self supporting.
We can only afford so much on players, their is a budget, players come and players will go,
Sharpe runs the club on behalf of the owners.
The Radfords own the club and like many before them are only willing to lose so much money, their is a cap.
Derby now shows what throwing money at success can do, and history is full of owners with good intentions getting into a financial mess.
Mansfield need to be self supporting and patience is vital.
Sharpe and Clough in, Carolyn and John sleep at night , Flynn spending 4 years and 204 days at Newport leaves them in League 2,
And Clough out after 10 games into his first full season, This has to be The Dumbest post on record

Whilst I agree with most of that we can't afford to fall back into none league. In fact, I think the Radfords would contemplate selling up if that happened. Things are dire at the moment, for various reasons. I do think NC is the best manager to pull us through. But sometimes circumstances dictate. Lots of injuries, suspensions, key signings that change their mind, poor decisions by officials poor signings, team mates scraping, wev'e had the lot. Sometimes you get a mare of a season. I think we are experiencing one now.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby arsene wengers coat » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:05 am

I wouldn't begrudge Carolyn coming back. In fact I support it.

I don't want Clough out, I want him to sort it out. We won't get a manager of his pedigree again.

However, the club's turmoil has correlated precisely with when the Radford's left for warmer climes. I'm afraid that we are a rudderless ship without a captain.

If Radford is such a shrewd businessman he will know the importance of leadership and stability. Carolyn gave us this and much more than we previously gave her credit for. I think she's very likeable and is smart enough to motivate the team beyond the managers remit - as an employer.

The Radfords need to get a grip of this situation soon. Their stepping away and leaving the club in the hands of incapable people is the one constant we've had since the back end of Flitcroft til now. And as a result, we've been circling the plughole for 3 seasons and we will eventually go through it without a drastic intervention. We can't carry on like this.

For all cloughs bad luck, a lot of this is our self-made luck.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby Gazmoose82 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:19 am

arsene wengers coat wrote:I wouldn't begrudge Carolyn coming back. In fact I support it.

I don't want Clough out, I want him to sort it out. We won't get a manager of his pedigree again.

However, the club's turmoil has correlated precisely with when the Radford's left for warmer climes. I'm afraid that we are a rudderless ship without a captain.

If Radford is such a shrewd businessman he will know the importance of leadership and stability. Carolyn gave us this and much more than we previously gave her credit for. I think she's very likeable and is smart enough to motivate the team beyond the managers remit - as an employer.

The Radfords need to get a grip of this situation soon. Their stepping away and leaving the club in the hands of incapable people is the one constant we've had since the back end of Flitcroft til now. And as a result, we've been circling the plughole for 3 seasons and we will eventually go through it without a drastic intervention. We can't carry on like this.

For all cloughs bad luck, a lot of this is our self-made luck.

100% agree with this! :thumbup:

We cant keep blaming 'bad luck' when alot of the problems have been created by ourselves.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby Gazmoose82 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:20 am

bear 73 wrote:Clough has been brought in to manage the club keeping it self supporting.
We can only afford so much on players, their is a budget, players come and players will go,
Sharpe runs the club on behalf of the owners.
The Radfords own the club and like many before them are only willing to lose so much money, their is a cap.
Derby now shows what throwing money at success can do, and history is full of owners with good intentions getting into a financial mess.
Mansfield need to be self supporting and patience is vital.
Sharpe and Clough in, Carolyn and John sleep at night , Flynn spending 4 years and 204 days at Newport leaves them in League 2,
And Clough out after 10 games into his first full season, This has to be The Dumbest post on record



Seriously? Is it thou? Alot of people a thinking the same but are blindly sticking with clough due to his name.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby Sedgwick » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:49 am

I think Ian Holloway was spot on in his comments about fans voicing daft opinions online.

If you had to say some of this raspberries in public around other fans and the manager etc you wouldn't full stop. You wouldn't even show up

A lot of people thinking the same? This place and it's handful of negative posters are the smallest minority of stags fans.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby arsene wengers coat » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:18 pm

To be fair Sedgwick I have been called out for screaming and crying about relegation when the going gets tough, and I do realise I come on here and post in the height of emotions after games etc. Not that rational sometimes. So agree that most of internet opinions are just graffiti with grammar, but in this case, I've had misgivings about how the club is run for a while now. Maybe unfounded, who knows. It's not a popular debate and I admit I don't know much at all about how the club is run, but we keep on finding ourselves in a L2 relegation fight after being touted for a promotion tilt. This wasn't the case when Carolyn was here. At some point we have to ask why this keeps happening now the Radford's aren't as involved. Might not be a single root cause, might not even be linked at all, but we do need to address it.

Personally I would love the Radford's to be more involved again.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby trenty » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:40 pm

Apart from Burton Albion what has NC done
Derby County and Sheffield Utd fans will tell you how crap he was
Give him 5 more games then if no improvement he must be gone
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby stag324 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:48 pm

trenty wrote:Apart from Burton Albion what has NC done
Derby County and Sheffield Utd fans will tell you how crap he was
Give him 5 more games then if no improvement he must be gone


He has the second best win rate at Sheffield United since 1959
Derby, most fans agree the challenges he was under and the majority thought he laid solid foundations at the club
Burton fans love him

Get your facts right
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby victor A block » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:50 pm

trenty wrote:Apart from Burton Albion what has NC done
Derby County and Sheffield Utd fans will tell you how crap he was
Give him 5 more games then if no improvement he must be gone


How much are you putting in for his severance package.? Im sure John Radford would be interested to know and it could well take a weight off his mind knowing you have it covered.

We stick with Clough. He will come good. He has had plenty of bad luck , injuries and poor refereeing decisions.
He has also brought some onto himself with a very poor transfer window and for whatever the reason not getting the best out of some of those he has signed, so is certainly not blameless. Not the time to panic though.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby bear 73 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:12 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:To be fair Sedgwick I have been called out for screaming and crying about relegation when the going gets tough, and I do realise I come on here and post in the height of emotions after games etc. Not that rational sometimes. So agree that most of internet opinions are just graffiti with grammar, but in this case, I've had misgivings about how the club is run for a while now. Maybe unfounded, who knows. It's not a popular debate and I admit I don't know much at all about how the club is run, but we keep on finding ourselves in a L2 relegation fight after being touted for a promotion tilt. This wasn't the case when Carolyn was here. At some point we have to ask why this keeps happening now the Radford's aren't as involved. Might not be a single root cause, might not even be linked at all, but we do need to address it.

Personally I would love the Radford's to be more involved again.


Thinking about relegation with 10 games gone is a little bit over he top, perhaps how the club was run is fair comment 10 managers in 10 years chasing promotion.
And their has to be a cut off point where throwing cash at it stops, hence David Sharpe someone who is trusted by the Radfords to look after their interests.
The hardest thing for a football club is to be self supporting, as most lose vast amounts of money, Someone who is tried and tested for this is Nigel Clough.
He will not throw money away on players demands, and will stand firm in a crises working with what he has got,
On his appointment it was stated it will take time and patience, it will not happen over night.
Last season we reduced the budget achieved our aim League 2 status, and moved on brought in some good players, had to keep some because they were on 2 year contracts.
Had a good start, disappointed on some transfers that failed, but that is football,, suffered some injury problems, and to top it all silly suspensions.
We could say lady luck has not been on our side, but the youth system is coming on and some good prospects coming through.
A top half finish , stability within the club and the team improving on last season,, and at the end of the season, keeping our best players important.
Which leaves 36 games to catch up 5 points we are away from a top half finish,
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby yorkstag » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:08 pm

Worth bearing in mind Carolyn did not want Flitcroft sacked.

The deniers need to understand that sacking DF was a massive mistake. Ok there were 2 poor appointments afterwards but Flitcrofts sacking was a spiteful act for which we are now paying.

The message here is not really about DF it’s about sticking with NC.

I do have concerns tho - transfer Windows have been dreadful . If Simon wasn’t Nigel’s brother questions would be asked. And although I’m not a coach the diamond does not work.

In NC we trust
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:29 pm

I'm all for sticking with Clough and hoping he can turn it around. The question is, how long do you stick with a manager if they continue not winning? There has to be a cut off point, but it's tough to gauge where that should be. You can't just stick by someone indefinitely because we've made mistakes with the appointments before that.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby Amber Andy » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:30 pm

yorkstag wrote:Worth bearing in mind Carolyn did not want Flitcroft sacked.

The deniers need to understand that sacking DF was a massive mistake. Ok there were 2 poor appointments afterwards but Flitcrofts sacking was a spiteful act for which we are now paying.

The message here is not really about DF it’s about sticking with NC.

I do have concerns tho - transfer Windows have been dreadful . If Simon wasn’t Nigel’s brother questions would be asked. And although I’m not a coach the diamond does not work.

In NC we trust
Good post :clap:
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby bear 73 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:36 pm

[quote="trenty"]Apart from Burton Albion what has NC done
Derby County and Sheffield Utd fans will tell you how crap he was
Give him 5 more games then if no improvement he must be gone[/quote


Total rubbish Derby were a stable club in 2013 and made the playoff final with his team, A club in great turmoil when he joined, and he is their longest serving manager since Jim Smith 1995.
Since 2013 they have had 11 managers thats in 8 years, The C-E-O has long gone, the owner lost well over £200 millions and was still losing millions a month.
He has gave up, and now Dreams of Premier league lies in liquidation, and league 1 beckons, Oh How The Mighty Fall.
Four and a half years he was their.
Sheff Utd, again in relegation mode finished 7th, and a F-A cup semi final at Wembley. Season 2 got them into the playoffs, and a League cup semi final against spurs.
The owner once more gone. Mr McCabe long gone, he was their 18 months.
So 6 years in management, Playoffs, F-A cup semi final, League cup Semi Final, Play offs,
His record at Burton speaks for itself.
Six and a half years a championship manager, 4 years in league 1.
And you think after 10 games he has failed, GloryGlory , this Place is a good fit when you have retired.
Last season the goals were met, T.
his season is only 10 games old
Is this a joke or do you not get it, Stability, and self supporting, with improvement
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby Sedgwick » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:53 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:I'm all for sticking with Clough and hoping he can turn it around. The question is, how long do you stick with a manager if they continue not winning? There has to be a cut off point, but it's tough to gauge where that should be. You can't just stick by someone indefinitely because we've made mistakes with the appointments before that.


Depends on many things during a bad run

Are the players trying?
Does the manager have enough of his squad?
Does he have a record of getting out of trouble before?
Are we getting totally outplayed?

I know we're in the same position we've been in before, but what will we ever know if we just keep doing the same thing when we start to go through a rough patch?

I can see the club sticking with him and being happy with a gradual improvement on last year, which is what we will ultimately see
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby bobbystagsfan » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:02 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:I'm all for sticking with Clough and hoping he can turn it around. The question is, how long do you stick with a manager if they continue not winning? There has to be a cut off point, but it's tough to gauge where that should be. You can't just stick by someone indefinitely because we've made mistakes with the appointments before that.



If we don't win in our next 2/3 games I think that will be it
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:18 pm

Clough will be here at the season’s end unless he walks.

He won’t need to do that as we will be safe before Easter.

OK things aren’t going as we hoped but they are no where near as bad as some are making out. We have plenty of time to turn it around and I am confident we will do so. Get a grip and get behind the lads instead of undermining them.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby scotsstag » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:29 pm

yorkstag wrote:Worth bearing in mind Carolyn did not want Flitcroft sacked.

The deniers need to understand that sacking DF was a massive mistake. Ok there were 2 poor appointments afterwards but Flitcrofts sacking was a spiteful act for which we are now paying.

The message here is not really about DF it’s about sticking with NC.

I do have concerns tho - transfer Windows have been dreadful . If Simon wasn’t Nigel’s brother questions would be asked. And although I’m not a coach the diamond does not work.

In NC we trust


Spiteful how ???
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby wardy12345 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:38 pm

Carolin definitely in she got things done
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby BH_Stag » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:39 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Clough will be here at the season’s end unless he walks.

He won’t need to do that as we will be safe before Easter.

OK things aren’t going as we hoped but they are no where near as bad as some are making out. We have plenty of time to turn it around and I am confident we will do so. Get a grip and get behind the lads instead of undermining them.


Confident take. At the minute I’m really not sure I could agree with that.

The midfield dragged us through last season but this year they’ve been nowhere near that level and can’t find any rhythm. Somehow, the back line is undoubtedly in a much worse state than last year, and we haven’t scored twice in a game in our last 7 outings so we’re not exactly free flowing! The lack of quality on the bench is frightening as well. Even when we get Quinn & Gordon back they’ll just take the place of Charsley & Hewitt so the quality of the bench is still poor!

Of course, that’s judging the current crop that we are stuck with…we could have a belting January transfer window and you’d be right
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby Gazmoose82 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:55 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:I'm all for sticking with Clough and hoping he can turn it around. The question is, how long do you stick with a manager if they continue not winning? There has to be a cut off point, but it's tough to gauge where that should be. You can't just stick by someone indefinitely because we've made mistakes with the appointments before that.


Depends on many things during a bad run

Are the players trying?
Does the manager have enough of his squad?
Does he have a record of getting out of trouble before?
Are we getting totally outplayed?

I know we're in the same position we've been in before, but what will we ever know if we just keep doing the same thing when we start to go through a rough patch?

I can see the club sticking with him and being happy with a gradual improvement on last year, which is what we will ultimately see


Things have got worse than last year.... What are you basing this 'gradual improvement' on?.

Not having a dig.... Genuine question.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:11 pm

I don’t agree things are worse than last year.

Even without the injury problems we’ve had this year, we were miles off other teams in terms of performance last term and never looked remotely like winning a game.

Our forward line was well off the pace and the defence was no better. Our goalkeepers weren’t worthy of polishing Bishop’s boots and always looked shaky.

We will come through this as Clough has both the experience and nouse to make it work. Coughlan was totally clueless and out of his depth with no chance of improving.
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Re: Clough & Sharpe out.... Flynn & Carolyn in

Postby trenty » Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:14 pm

Living on his name
Last manager was sacked in October and NC has 5 more games to save his reputation
Doesn’t matter what circumstances have caused this situation he is held responsible and relegation is far worse than getting rid
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