Defensive frailties

[bear 73]

Sometimes rather than just take bodies, you are better bringing in our young players and giving them experience like we did last year.
Near the end of September now, and quality players will have been snapped up.
Better to take a step back than rush into a panic mode. We have a tried and tested recruiting policy, and a system that puts players as young has 16 on the pitch.
walk and get there, always beats rushing and falling, remember the turtle and the hare

I have a question, if I may.

If he plays youth then why isn't George Cooper getting game time? Free up the right back to play right back.

In fact another question. Does Clough have a history of signing players to play in their "secondary" pesitions rather than their main ones?

1 playing youth only works if they are ready, ex the quote if your good enough you are old enough, and youth easily can have dips in form, that experienced players deal with better.
It takes a brave manager to trust young players
2 yes instead of disgruntled players kicking their heels waiting for a game, moral takes a dip, he prefers a tight nit unit working together backed by youth.
For this system to work players have to be adaptable in more than one role.

[bear 73]

Rollin Menayese should not have been allowed to join Walsall on loan until we had recruited a quality fit replacement. If we still had Rollin in the squad on transfer deadline day then I do not think Nigel Clough would have allowed him to leave the building bearing in mind Richard Nartey was carrying a knock and Will Forrester was injured. Sam Hughes was also injured.

Tippy players leaving could have been the only way to free up the budget for new signings, and you are right in hindsight things did not go as planned.
Will Forrester was one for later on [2 weeks ] but Nartey if injured when he came , im sure Clough knew nothing about it
Sam Hughes was a loan leading to a permanent in Jan, unlike some on our forum Clough is building for the future and not just today.
We lost out to a club who thought the risk viable and their fans are delighted to have him on board,
Interesting will Menayese come back in January, ?

[bear 73]

Rollin Menayese should not have been allowed to join Walsall on loan until we had recruited a quality fit replacement. If we still had Rollin in the squad on transfer deadline day then I do not think Nigel Clough would have allowed him to leave the building bearing in mind Richard Nartey was carrying a knock and Will Forrester was injured. Sam Hughes was also injured.

100pc spot on. Wonder what Don Howe will have to say about that.

i
I have answered the thread, Don Howe does not post on our forum, but of coarse dont let facts get in your way

[gazza1988]

I don't think you've understood my second question.

Does he sign players to play in a secondary position? He tried to sign Naylor, initially a centre half but by all accounts flourished as a central midfielder, to play centre back. His not "secondary" position. Signed Hewitt, a player once transferred for a 6 figure sum as a right back, played him centre back because that's where he played for 2 relegated clubs. Charsley (he didn't sign him, but gave him a new deal) a central midfielder played on the right of a front 3 of Bowery Reid and Charsley. Gordon (do I need to repeat this? ). Macca, a winger/midfielder in the championship but played at left back here. Does Clough have a history of doing this?

A further question on the answer to the first question. If George isn't ready then why didn't we sign more defenders. If we are talking main positions, we've got 3 central defenders. 1 hasn't been fit for us yet, another came on deadline say, into a season. The other is Rawson. To cover centre half we have to weaken the rest of the side. We'd have to weaken right back for perch to play centre half. Heck we're at a point where we now may have to weaken our forward line (arguably the only thing keeping us afloat) to plug the gap at the back. The very gap Clough has spent around 9 month complaining about.

If Clough came out and said he'd taken a gamble on our back line and it's failed horribly and owns that error there would be alot less questioning his management. Some will moan about it after another game where we pay the price of it but not alot we can do. I just find it odd he can criticise players for "not tackling their mate" but takes ko ownership of his own big mistakes.

[bear 73]

[quote="bellwhiff"][quote="broomo"][quote="bellwhiff"][quote="Tippy Tappy Football"]Rollin Menayese should not have been allowed to join Walsall on loan until we had recruited a quality fit replacement. If we still had Rollin in the squad on transfer deadline day then I do not think Nigel Clough would have allowed him to leave the building bearing in mind Richard Nartey was carrying a knock and Will Forrester was injured. Sam Hughes was also injured.[/quote]
100pc spot on. Wonder what Don Howe will have to say about that.[/quote]

Can't resist having a little dig can you?

I know who's posts I'd rather read and who's knowledge I trust more.

Hint, it's not yours Parky's or the trolls.[/quote]
I honestly don’t care what you think, superfan. So why bother telling me?

Don’t you need to get to bed? You’ve got to get up an hour before you go to bed so you can skateboard to Orient and then moon walk back. Legend.[/quote]
I do not see the point of posting if you do not take into account different views, very narrow mindset.
I like you do admire someone travelling from Sunderland, where we have Sunderland, Newcastle, Middlesbrough all very big clubs and he travels all the way to London to support the stags.
Some people use the word often but in this case you are right Legend a proper football fan

[bear 73]

Rollin Menayese should not have been allowed to join Walsall on loan until we had recruited a quality fit replacement. If we still had Rollin in the squad on transfer deadline day then I do not think Nigel Clough would have allowed him to leave the building bearing in mind Richard Nartey was carrying a knock and Will Forrester was injured. Sam Hughes was also injured.

100pc spot on. Wonder what Don Howe will have to say about that.

Can't resist having a little dig can you?

I know who's posts I'd rather read and who's knowledge I trust more.

Hint, it's not yours Parky's or the trolls.

So anyone who doesn't join the Nigel love in, you're so predictable.

Love in, do you watch love island, giving someone respect in a profession he has been part off for 50 years is a courtesy any one would do.
From non-league to International honours in playing, over 20 years in management, i can only say if you can be critical, be sure you know what you are talking about

[Tippy Tappy Football]

Tippy players leaving could have been the only way to free up the budget for new signings, and you are right in hindsight things did not go as planned. Will Forrester was one for later on [2 weeks ] but Nartey if injured when he came , im sure Clough knew nothing about it
Sam Hughes was a loan leading to a permanent in Jan, unlike some on our forum Clough is building for the future and not just today.
We lost out to a club who thought the risk viable and their fans are delighted to have him on board,
Interesting will Menayese come back in January, ?

Funds are not an issue Bear as demonstrated by the fact that were were prepared to sign Tom Naylor and make him our top earner. JR has backed his managers from Steve Evans in 2016 onwards as the club accounts demonstrate.

[lifestags]

The issue unfortunately falls with NC and DS, Last Jan we didn't get Akins and panicked at the last moment with Sarkic and they have done the same again with Forrester and Nartey, the question is why? Is it DS ability to negotiate? Is it Clough being too stubborn?

Or does he rely on his brother too much, either way we have been left short after a transfer window again and it needs looking at, we will struggle defensively until January because of this.

this isnt me trying to be negative about Nigel by the way, I think he is a decent manager but he has definitely made some huge mistakes.

As for Bear and Broomo, no issues with them supporting the club at all, I just want them to be unbiased in their views.

[pemill]

Just watched the highlights video from Saturday's game. If Rochdale had been a bit sharper up front, they'd have been out of sight before we equalised.

On the chance they had after 20 seconds of the highlights video, the defence was all over the place when the cross came in from the right, leaving three Dale players unmarked.

Lets not forget, in most games if we'd been a bit sharper up front we'd be top of the league.

[bear 73]

I don't think you've understood my second question.

Does he sign players to play in a secondary position? He tried to sign Naylor, initially a centre half but by all accounts flourished as a central midfielder, to play centre back. His not "secondary" position. Signed Hewitt, a player once transferred for a 6 figure sum as a right back, played him centre back because that's where he played for 2 relegated clubs. Charsley (he didn't sign him, but gave him a new deal) a central midfielder played on the right of a front 3 of Bowery Reid and Charsley. Gordon (do I need to repeat this? ). Macca, a winger/midfielder in the championship but played at left back here. Does Clough have a history of doing this?

A further question on the answer to the first question. If George isn't ready then why didn't we sign more defenders. If we are talking main positions, we've got 3 central defenders. 1 hasn't been fit for us yet, another came on deadline say, into a season. The other is Rawson. To cover centre half we have to weaken the rest of the side. We'd have to weaken right back for perch to play centre half. Heck we're at a point where we now may have to weaken our forward line (arguably the only thing keeping us afloat) to plug the gap at the back. The very gap Clough has spent around 9 month complaining about.

If Clough came out and said he'd taken a gamble on our back line and it's failed horribly and owns that error there would be alot less questioning his management. Some will moan about it after another game where we pay the price of it but not alot we can do. I just find it odd he can criticise players for "not tackling their mate" but takes ko ownership of his own big mistakes.

I cannot answer a question that is so simple Naylor and Hewitt have played centre back, where a player plays is up to the manager, we has fans form our own opinions formed on very little knowledge, and i defy 4 fans picking the same team with our squad, wingers at full back started at Leeds Utd with Cooper, and full backs have been more on the front foot for many years.
many central defenders have originally been full backs, or defensive midfielders, Please explain why you know more thanthe manager.
and explain which manager over the last 17 years you have supported to take this club forward, and why it has not worked with players in their right positions.
Clough square pegs in round holes worked at Derby, Sheff UTd, Burton, and his Dads Worked at Derby and Forest

,

[Tippy Tappy Football]

I like the way that Nigel Clough plays on the front foot and I want him to carry on playing like that but when you are playing a back four and your full backs are pushing up it puts a massive strain on your centre backs and holding midfield players. Mansfield dominated possession against Walsall (61%) but every time Walsall clipped a ball over the top of our defence into channels then it caused chaos. You therefore need quick strong centre halfs who are good at one on one or two v two defending and dealing with counter attacks. You would have therefore thought that Nigel Clough's No 1 priority during the summer was to sign a couple of top quality defenders. He might now have to think about changing his system or playing more conservatively because of a shortage of fit quality defenders in the squad. I'd like to see us still going forward though and dominating possession. We then need to turn that possession into goals and if we can grab some more early leads then even better.

Stags scored 1st Goal x 4 (W2 D1 L1)
Stags conceded 1st Goal x 4 (W0 D1 L3)

[bear 73]

[quote="lifestags"]The issue unfortunately falls with NC and DS, Last Jan we didn't get Akins and panicked at the last moment with Sarkic and they have done the same again with Forrester and Nartey, the question is why? Is it DS ability to negotiate? Is it Clough being too stubborn?

Or does he rely on his brother too much, either way we have been left short after a transfer window again and it needs looking at, we will struggle defensively until January because of this.

this isnt me trying to be negative about Nigel by the way, I think he is a decent manager but he has definitely made some huge mistakes.

As for Bear and Broomo, no issues with them supporting the club at all, I just want them to be unbiased in their views.[/quo

If sticking up for the manager is biased, if giving him time to turn things around is wrong, if wanting better times is not on, unless immediately.
I feel we are at a cross roads , stick and build, or carry on 1 year no promotion next manager please.
Derby and Forest have took the second road and spent millions says it all, Mansfield have took that route, last season started real well.
And allowing new supporters to spend their cash watching league 2 football, with no issues from you, JR will be over the moon.
Being a positive poster i want as many people watching Mansfield town as the ground will allow, and then bishop st stand being full would bring a real buzz

[Captain Cunno]

Sorry I cant cope with anymore of this indecipherable mumbo jumbo from Clough fan and apologist bear...
At least broomo makes sense...
Foed unless he's constantly quoted then it's bye bye till Nigel departs and takes him with him

[lifestags]

The issue unfortunately falls with NC and DS, Last Jan we didn't get Akins and panicked at the last moment with Sarkic and they have done the same again with Forrester and Nartey, the question is why? Is it DS ability to negotiate? Is it Clough being too stubborn?

Or does he rely on his brother too much, either way we have been left short after a transfer window again and it needs looking at, we will struggle defensively until January because of this.

this isnt me trying to be negative about Nigel by the way, I think he is a decent manager but he has definitely made some huge mistakes.

As for Bear and Broomo, no issues with them supporting the club at all, I just want them to be unbiased in their views.[/quo

If sticking up for the manager is biased, if giving him time to turn things around is wrong, if wanting better times is not on, unless immediately.
I feel we are at a cross roads , stick and build, or carry on 1 year no promotion next manager please.
Derby and Forest have took the second road and spent millions says it all, Mansfield have took that route, last season started real well.
And allowing new supporters to spend their cash watching league 2 football, with no issues from you, JR will be over the moon.
Being a positive poster i want as many people watching Mansfield town as the ground will allow, and then bishop st stand being full would bring a real buzz

Not once did I mention us replacing Clough, so what is your point? There is sticking up for a manager and then there is not being able to admit when he has made a mistake, I would say you are letting your personal ''feelings'' about Nigel get in the way of your footballing judgement. Which was always going to be the risk. I was hoping you and Broomo would be insightful with your knowledge of Nigel but also be impartial.

[gazza1988]

I don't think you've understood my second question.

Does he sign players to play in a secondary position? He tried to sign Naylor, initially a centre half but by all accounts flourished as a central midfielder, to play centre back. His not "secondary" position. Signed Hewitt, a player once transferred for a 6 figure sum as a right back, played him centre back because that's where he played for 2 relegated clubs. Charsley (he didn't sign him, but gave him a new deal) a central midfielder played on the right of a front 3 of Bowery Reid and Charsley. Gordon (do I need to repeat this? ). Macca, a winger/midfielder in the championship but played at left back here. Does Clough have a history of doing this?

A further question on the answer to the first question. If George isn't ready then why didn't we sign more defenders. If we are talking main positions, we've got 3 central defenders. 1 hasn't been fit for us yet, another came on deadline say, into a season. The other is Rawson. To cover centre half we have to weaken the rest of the side. We'd have to weaken right back for perch to play centre half. Heck we're at a point where we now may have to weaken our forward line (arguably the only thing keeping us afloat) to plug the gap at the back. The very gap Clough has spent around 9 month complaining about.

If Clough came out and said he'd taken a gamble on our back line and it's failed horribly and owns that error there would be alot less questioning his management. Some will moan about it after another game where we pay the price of it but not alot we can do. I just find it odd he can criticise players for "not tackling their mate" but takes ko ownership of his own big mistakes.

I cannot answer a question that is so simple Naylor and Hewitt have played centre back, where a player plays is up to the manager, we has fans form our own opinions formed on very little knowledge, and i defy 4 fans picking the same team with our squad, wingers at full back started at Leeds Utd with Cooper, and full backs have been more on the front foot for many years.
many central defenders have originally been full backs, or defensive midfielders, Please explain why you know more thanthe manager.
and explain which manager over the last 17 years you have supported to take this club forward, and why it has not worked with players in their right positions.
Clough square pegs in round holes worked at Derby, Sheff UTd, Burton, and his Dads Worked at Derby and Forest

,

So, yes. Square pegs in round holes may work higher up with a higher standard of player. Down here it just doesn't.unless the players are a higher standard. Macca, Perch and Quinn are technically higher standard players and cope well with being in a secondary position. That's fine. But when you take a league 2 standard player and move them they perform like a non-league player.

I could point out Clough has 1 promotion in the professional leagues and a couple of good cup runs. I could point out hes never achieved promotion out of the this league. In fact has he ever managed in league 2? So maybe we need to cut him some slack because he doesn't know the league or what it takes to get out of it just yet.

All I'm saying is square pegs in round holes rarely work for us and results are supporting that.

I don't know more than the manager

"and explain which manager over the last 17 years you have supported to take this club forward, and why it has not worked with players in their right positions"

Amazing, my question about whether Clough signs players to play them out of position is a "simple" one. Well the answer to that question you posed is very simple. The teams that beat us had a better standard of player. I just think that playing your best players in their best positions brings out the best performance. Like the building analofy earlier. We are ringing up a plumbing contractor to rewire a house, it's not the best thing to do.

or maybe you're correct and they actually had their right winger in goal, and the goal keeper up front. I never paid that detailed attention to opposition.

[bear 73]

[quote="lifestags"]The issue unfortunately falls with NC and DS, Last Jan we didn't get Akins and panicked at the last moment with Sarkic and they have done the same again with Forrester and Nartey, the question is why? Is it DS ability to negotiate? Is it Clough being too stubborn?

Or does he rely on his brother too much, either way we have been left short after a transfer window again and it needs looking at, we will struggle defensively until January because of this.

this isnt me trying to be negative about Nigel by the way, I think he is a decent manager but he has definitely made some huge mistakes.

As for Bear and Broomo, no issues with them supporting the club at all, I just want them to be unbiased in their views.[/quo

If sticking up for the manager is biased, if giving him time to turn things around is wrong, if wanting better times is not on, unless immediately.
I feel we are at a cross roads , stick and build, or carry on 1 year no promotion next manager please.
Derby and Forest have took the second road and spent millions says it all, Mansfield have took that route, last season started real well.
And allowing new supporters to spend their cash watching league 2 football, with no issues from you, JR will be over the moon.
Being a positive poster i want as many people watching Mansfield town as the ground will allow, and then bishop st stand being full would bring a real buzz

[bear 73]

Sorry I cant cope with anymore of this indecipherable mumbo jumbo from Clough fan and apologist bear...
At least broomo makes sense...
Foed unless he's constantly quoted then it's bye bye till Nigel departs and takes him with him

Taken that this is a post about football, and Clough will depart, , i can see you are not coping well,, but listen to broomo that will enhance your matchday experience
Indecipherable mumbo jumbo will go away,
Sorry we wont communicate again but thats life

[lifestags]

The issue unfortunately falls with NC and DS, Last Jan we didn't get Akins and panicked at the last moment with Sarkic and they have done the same again with Forrester and Nartey, the question is why? Is it DS ability to negotiate? Is it Clough being too stubborn?

Or does he rely on his brother too much, either way we have been left short after a transfer window again and it needs looking at, we will struggle defensively until January because of this.

this isnt me trying to be negative about Nigel by the way, I think he is a decent manager but he has definitely made some huge mistakes.

As for Bear and Broomo, no issues with them supporting the club at all, I just want them to be unbiased in their views.[/quo

If sticking up for the manager is biased, if giving him time to turn things around is wrong, if wanting better times is not on, unless immediately.
I feel we are at a cross roads , stick and build, or carry on 1 year no promotion next manager please.
Derby and Forest have took the second road and spent millions says it all, Mansfield have took that route, last season started real well.
And allowing new supporters to spend their cash watching league 2 football, with no issues from you, JR will be over the moon.
Being a positive poster i want as many people watching Mansfield town as the ground will allow, and then bishop st stand being full would bring a real buzz

Oh bear, you have just quoted the same message and haven't actually replied to me..

[yorkshire stag]

The issue unfortunately falls with NC and DS, Last Jan we didn't get Akins and panicked at the last moment with Sarkic and they have done the same again with Forrester and Nartey, the question is why? Is it DS ability to negotiate? Is it Clough being too stubborn?

Or does he rely on his brother too much, either way we have been left short after a transfer window again and it needs looking at, we will struggle defensively until January because of this.

this isnt me trying to be negative about Nigel by the way, I think he is a decent manager but he has definitely made some huge mistakes.

As for Bear and Broomo, no issues with them supporting the club at all, I just want them to be unbiased in their views.

absolutely agree

[Amber Andy]

The issue unfortunately falls with NC and DS, Last Jan we didn't get Akins and panicked at the last moment with Sarkic and they have done the same again with Forrester and Nartey, the question is why? Is it DS ability to negotiate? Is it Clough being too stubborn?

Or does he rely on his brother too much, either way we have been left short after a transfer window again and it needs looking at, we will struggle defensively until January because of this.

this isnt me trying to be negative about Nigel by the way, I think he is a decent manager but he has definitely made some huge mistakes.

As for Bear and Broomo, no issues with them supporting the club at all, I just want them to be unbiased in their views.

absolutely agree

What bit about Naylor pulling out at the last second don't you get. Or maybe Curle refusing to let his centre half leave ?

These things happen.

As for bringing in the next in line, players don't hang about for ifs or maybes.

I think you should give NC and SC a bit of slack.

I think he messed up signing Hewitt, but every manager makes a bad signing.

Had Naylor signed chances are we wouldn't be experiencing "defensive frailties".

And the injuries are hardly NC fault.

[bear 73]

The issue unfortunately falls with NC and DS, Last Jan we didn't get Akins and panicked at the last moment with Sarkic and they have done the same again with Forrester and Nartey, the question is why? Is it DS ability to negotiate? Is it Clough being too stubborn?

Or does he rely on his brother too much, either way we have been left short after a transfer window again and it needs looking at, we will struggle defensively until January because of this.

this isnt me trying to be negative about Nigel by the way, I think he is a decent manager but he has definitely made some huge mistakes.

As for Bear and Broomo, no issues with them supporting the club at all, I just want them to be unbiased in their views.[/quo

If sticking up for the manager is biased, if giving him time to turn things around is wrong, if wanting better times is not on, unless immediately.
I feel we are at a cross roads , stick and build, or carry on 1 year no promotion next manager please.
Derby and Forest have took the second road and spent millions says it all, Mansfield have took that route, last season started real well.
And allowing new supporters to spend their cash watching league 2 football, with no issues from you, JR will be over the moon.
Being a positive poster i want as many people watching Mansfield town as the ground will allow, and then bishop st stand being full would bring a real buzz

Oh bear, you have just quoted the same message and haven't actually replied to me..

Sorry lifestags posted twice, i think it is to early to judge, but i do agree we failed in getting our man, and Perch was bad news
It could get worse tomorrow, i just hope not, up the Stags

[Gazmoose82]

if you're just going to bicker and confront other users, then don't post please.

Sort it out then Martin.

Gaz, Parkinson and Bell are responsible for 90% of the arguments on here. At least one of them is clearly a troll.

Like i've said hundreds of times on here... You cannot simply brand someone a troll for having an opinion on something!

A troll is someone who sits on-line all day hurling abuse at somebody... Not someone who thinks Nigel clough has made a complete balls up of managing MTFC and wants to share his opinion.

For Martin to 'sort it out' would mean taking half of stagsnet away!

Isn't that what you are doing ? Sitting on line, hurling abuse at NC ? Seems that way to me pal. You seem to lack the ability or inclination to post anything remotely positive.

Im not constantly hurling abuse at NC... Just pointing out that he has done a terrible job of managing MTFC so far this season....Which is a fact you cant deny looking at the table, the squad and goals conceded column.

This is not trolling is it?

[lifestags]

Amber Andy, he had 6 weeks to find a replacement for Tom naylor, 6 weeks.

[chip63]

Amber Andy, he had 6 weeks to find a replacement for Tom naylor, 6 weeks.

I agree with you on that but we had Perch Rawson and Hewitt at the time, even though it wasn't ideal it was ok.
Hawkins was also a back up and if he wasn't doing so well upfront I believe he would be playing at the back.
I don't know if any players available were better than what we had.

[Amber Andy]

if you're just going to bicker and confront other users, then don't post please.

Sort it out then Martin.

Gaz, Parkinson and Bell are responsible for 90% of the arguments on here. At least one of them is clearly a troll.

Like i've said hundreds of times on here... You cannot simply brand someone a troll for having an opinion on something!

A troll is someone who sits on-line all day hurling abuse at somebody... Not someone who thinks Nigel clough has made a complete balls up of managing MTFC and wants to share his opinion.

For Martin to 'sort it out' would mean taking half of stagsnet away!

Isn't that what you are doing ? Sitting on line, hurling abuse at NC ? Seems that way to me pal. You seem to lack the ability or inclination to post anything remotely positive.

Im not constantly hurling abuse at NC... Just pointing out that he has done a terrible job of managing MTFC so far this season....Which is a fact you cant deny looking at the table, the squad and goals conceded column.

This is not trolling is it?

So you cannot see any positives ?
Everything is negative? NC has brought nothing to the club ? All his signings have been failures ? Is that what you think ? All your posts suggest that.