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Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Sedgwick » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:47 pm

Posted as a comment but thought its own thread would be useful... heard people say we have a top 3 budget in the summer but starting to look at the squad, do we?

I don't think we have the budget people believe we do. Club has lost an awful amount of money "going for it" with Evans and Flitcroft, Dempster was even backed with transfer fee high wage players, and we had a season with no fans. I seriously think we're cutting it fine, happy to have my mind changed but I think we have a very budget squad.

and I think Nigel Cloughs appointment fits into that. Hes always done well with little to no money available to spend, but has always had time and multiple windows.

Hewitt will be on low wages, Free transfer
Stirk wont be much, YT player, on loan
Burke next to nothing, just above a YT player, Free transfer
Bishop, covered by United so im told.
Nartey, partly covered by Burnley
Shelvey, first year pro level wages, again partly covered by forest?
Forrester, not currently paying him anything

Quinn, Average to good possibly same as what Burton had him on? Free Transfer
Danny Johnson, possibly higher but won't be a ridiculous amount otherwise Clough would have said no, Free Transfer.
Hawkins, similar to above. Free Transfer
Rhys Oates, turned down high wages to play league football, previously a conference player, cant see him being on crazy money, Free Transfer

Sinclair
Cooper
Law
Hill
Caine
Clarke
Ward
Scott... all on low wages. No idea how true, but first year pros apparently on £400 a week

Interested to see peoples thoughts and correct me if we did pay a fee for anyone.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:55 pm

Would make sense. We've paid what they seem to be worth, and the league table corresponds.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Sedgwick » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:24 am

Find it hilarious that no one wants to talk about the budget... because it goes against the idea that we should automatically be top 3 every year.

Look through the squad, its as budget as you can get. We are on a cost cutting exercise and the table/ transfers reflect it perfectly.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Kenwood » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:40 am

I don’t think we have a top 3 budget but we will certainly have a competitive one

I have no idea but how would our budget compare to Harrogate for instance?

The potential signing of Naylor (although I was never convinced he would be a suitable CH, having played a lot of his football as a holding midfielder) shows you NC had a decent budget

Players like Hawkins, Johnson, Oates, Quinn, Macca, Perch, Laps, Clarke, Maris, Bowery will all be on good money at this level

I don’t think he has yet got the balance and type of player in the squad right and that is not just down to budget
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Rob » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:45 am

I think we have a very good budget but I don't think the manager has used much of it. He signed what are probably cheap loan players instead of 1st choice, more expensive permanent ones, I suspect there is plenty in the kitty for January.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Gazmoose82 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:46 am

Rob wrote:I think we have a very good budget but I don't think the manager has used much of it. He signed what are probably cheap loan players instead of 1st choice, more expensive permanent ones, I suspect there is plenty in the kitty for January.

The trouble is January will be to late!
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:51 am

Sedgwick wrote:Find it hilarious that no one wants to talk about the budget... because it goes against the idea that we should automatically be top 3 every year.

Look through the squad, its as budget as you can get. We are on a cost cutting exercise and the table/ transfers reflect it perfectly.


The problem is that if doesn't fit with the narrative, Sedgwick.
So many of our fans seem to assume that we will smash the league and we are massive fish in a small pond.

The irony is that Sharp was very clear when he was appointed and the excellent fans forum with Clough was very open about our approach.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Onelove » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:54 am

What's is Sharpe's role in signing players? Seem to have missed a lot of Clough's supposed targets.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Conker » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:58 am

We paid a fee for Hawkins and Clough said our budget is ‘competitive’ it’s clearly not what it used to be but despite the OTT reaction we have some good players and they cost decent money.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Conker » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:03 am

The biggest mistake from the OP is focusing on only most recent signings too, other signings like a highly rated Lapslie and players who were here before Clough ie Ollie Clarke from L1.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby part time pete » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:05 am

Kenwood wrote:I don’t think we have a top 3 budget but we will certainly have a competitive one

I have no idea but how would our budget compare to Harrogate for instance?

The potential signing of Naylor (although I was never convinced he would be a suitable CH, having played a lot of his football as a holding midfielder) shows you NC had a decent budget

Players like Hawkins, Johnson, Oates, Quinn, Macca, Perch, Laps, Clarke, Maris, Bowery will all be on good money at this level

I don’t think he has yet got the balance and type of player in the squad right and that is not just down to budget



Harrogate are a well financed club, the owner is the manager’s father and is not poor.

How do you think they have risen through the leagues in a short period of time if they weren’t bankrolled with their small crowd and stadium.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby BH_Stag » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:10 am

Disagree we are on a cost cutting exercise.

We were willing to make Naylor one of if not the highest paid player ever to play for Mansfield allegedly.

Johnson, Oates, and Hawkins will all be on good money. 20 goals by Johnson last season, you don’t get strikers off the back of a season like that on the cheap. Hawkins been at big clubs in Portsmouth & Ipswich, he’ll be paid well and didn’t we pay a fee for him (probably small). Oates may have had a substantially higher offer from non league but it by no means means he’s on peanuts here. I’m not saying they’re on daft money, but cost cutting? Not for me.

Nartey & Forrester look like cost cutting signings because we were scraping the barrel at the last minute after missing out on higher profile targets and just had to get some bodies in - you mentioned yourself that you thought one of the targets was too ambitious so obviously the budget has been there.

Midfield didn’t need much work. Clough made it clear he was very happy with Maris, Clarke, Lapslie (fee paid in Jan) and Quinn. Charsley had signed a new deal in Jan to support that so He probably thought we didn’t need another experienced player hence the signing of a young lad on loan in Stirk, nothing out of the ordinary.

Agree that our budget will not be as high as the Evans/Flitcroft days, and we currently have plenty of players that smack of budget signings, but for me that’s the result of poor recruitment rather than working on a tight budget.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Sedgwick » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:31 am

BH_Stag wrote:Disagree we are on a cost cutting exercise.

We were willing to make Naylor one of if not the highest paid player ever to play for Mansfield allegedly.



I think the money is there when needed, but its not been spent
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby bear 73 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:38 am

Clough is happy with the budget and feels a promotion push is possible, the wording is promotion push.
Clough will use the youth system has back up for the squad, So Allowing for some higher wages to some members of the team.
Clarke and Clough will have to work with a budget and a remit of what is expected, i would think it is growth within the club and league 1 within 2 - 3 years
League 2 is a minefield of Average players, and long ball tactics work well with in it,
To beat the system a higher quality player is required, and here lies the problem, getting them to league 2 level requires money, and clubs higher up the pyramid can offer bigger wages and more exposure for their careers.
to beat the system you have to build a squad capable of progressing to the next level, This takes time and a few transfer windows, and the biggest problem PATIENCE
Our Academy and under23s are vital to the club, And stability a necessity. In football standards our budget is small, in league 2 above average
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby bellwhiff » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:41 am

It’s not about money. It’s about procurement.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby broomo » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:27 pm

bellwhiff wrote:It’s not about money. It’s about procurement.


You keep using the term procurement.

It's not your old job bonny lad.

It's recruitment not procurement.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:37 pm

Onelove wrote:What's is Sharpe's role in signing players? Seem to have missed a lot of Clough's supposed targets.


No we seem to have missed out on Naylor and the two centre halves on deadline day
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Amber Andy » Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:05 pm

bellwhiff wrote:It’s not about money. It’s about procurement.
Very often the two go together. Money is why we lost out on Naylor. He would have been a good signing, and costly.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:15 pm

Onelove wrote:What's is Sharpe's role in signing players? Seem to have missed a lot of Clough's supposed targets.


He’s the chief exec, so he’s basically in charge of the admin and the negotiation of the details.

It’s true we missed three targets, but two went to League One (one was injured until November anyway) and the other club didn’t want to sell. So other than throw more money at things, which people have criticised in the past, I’m not sure what more he could’ve done.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Sedgwick » Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:29 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
Onelove wrote:What's is Sharpe's role in signing players? Seem to have missed a lot of Clough's supposed targets.


He’s the chief exec, so he’s basically in charge of the admin and the negotiation of the details.

It’s true we missed three targets, but two went to League One (one was injured until November anyway) and the other club didn’t want to sell. So other than throw more money at things, which people have criticised in the past, I’m not sure what more he could’ve done.



This, not sure why people think we have a god given right to sign the best players in the EFL, and when we don't accuse the manager of doing nothing all summer...

But From all the names I heard, Naylor and the other Center Back (who I know if I mention I'll get lambasted for creating false rumours lol), were every ambitious... both playing top of league one now. Naylor also playing as a midfielder, how would that have gone down on here with the one position brigade?

I believe of the 8/9 targets they wanted they got 4 of them. Johnson, Hawkins, Bishop and Quinn... the rest were all second/ third choice or offered to us.

The Midfielder and a defender from Scotland that were heavily rumoured were targets but didn't want to come to league two.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:46 pm

Sedgwick wrote:Find it hilarious that no one wants to talk about the budget... because it goes against the idea that we should automatically be top 3 every year.

Look through the squad, its as budget as you can get. We are on a cost cutting exercise and the table/ transfers reflect it perfectly.


Sadly, I think I agree.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:48 pm

broomo wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:It’s not about money. It’s about procurement.


You keep using the term procurement.

It's not your old job bonny lad.

It's recruitment not procurement.


We don't procure players. They dont return an ITT after 28 days and get it marked by a committee like the MOD, who I might add are one of the worst Departments for procurement.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby bellwhiff » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:21 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:
broomo wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:It’s not about money. It’s about procurement.


You keep using the term procurement.

It's not your old job bonny lad.

It's recruitment not procurement.


We don't procure players. They dont return an ITT after 28 days and get it marked by a committee like the MOD, who I might add are one of the worst Departments for procurement.

I’d say we do. We procure contractors for certain roles and responsibilities.

Procurement

Procurement is often a fancy term used in marketing to find and retrieve something, usually an item or a service. Plenty of businesses have a procurement department which is usually filled with a group of dedicated employees who make buying decisions for the company.

When procurement is implemented in human resources, it becomes an operative function. Chris Emrick, Project Manager at Dematic, defines procurement in human resource as resource gathering, getting the best deal possible for resources. It is concerned with procuring and employing people who possess necessary skill, knowledge and aptitude. Generally, people who have a reputation to do work (via reference or referral) are enough for a contractor to be hired.

For example, if a project needs specialised labour or merely more labour hours than inhouse staff can provide, HR can procure contract labour. When the need for the product or extra labour is done, the resource could be exhausted. In many situations, procurement could be defined as hourly labour with some note.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:57 pm

There are other uses for the term procurement when it comes to people.

Prince Andrew is having a few problems following his old mate allegedly procuring a 17 year old for him. Of course it couldn’t be true as he was out getting the kids some tea at the time.
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Re: Not the budget we think we have?

Postby Sedgwick » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:31 pm

bellwhiff wrote:
arsene wengers coat wrote:
broomo wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:It’s not about money. It’s about procurement.


You keep using the term procurement.

It's not your old job bonny lad.

It's recruitment not procurement.


We don't procure players. They dont return an ITT after 28 days and get it marked by a committee like the MOD, who I might add are one of the worst Departments for procurement.

I’d say we do. We procure contractors for certain roles and responsibilities.

Procurement

Procurement is often a fancy term used in marketing to find and retrieve something, usually an item or a service. Plenty of businesses have a procurement department which is usually filled with a group of dedicated employees who make buying decisions for the company.

When procurement is implemented in human resources, it becomes an operative function. Chris Emrick, Project Manager at Dematic, defines procurement in human resource as resource gathering, getting the best deal possible for resources. It is concerned with procuring and employing people who possess necessary skill, knowledge and aptitude. Generally, people who have a reputation to do work (via reference or referral) are enough for a contractor to be hired.

For example, if a project needs specialised labour or merely more labour hours than inhouse staff can provide, HR can procure contract labour. When the need for the product or extra labour is done, the resource could be exhausted. In many situations, procurement could be defined as hourly labour with some note.


And the award for the most boring post in stagsnet history goes to...
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