Racist Remark Reported

[Steve North]

Race was , is and always will be a debatable subject and name calling is the easy option to express feelings but it does show a basic lack of thought for other people ...however as my dear old dad to say "sticks and stones can hurt my bones but calling cannot hurt me " I was brought up in the era when Paddy was an Irishman , Jock was a Scotsmen and Taffy was a Welshman and Pakistanis were Packys and so on...This racial stereotyping is not just a British thing but is found all over the world and is the butt of jokes worldwide...In Australia,,,where does an Englishman hide his money..under his bar of soap...and so on and so on but in my opinion the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion by the Black Lives Matter fiasco and has now gone into over drive and every TV advert appears to have a Black person in it to an excessive degree bearing in mind black people represent some 4% of the population . Everyone should have a job according to their talent not just because its right . The person in the Stand shouting abuse was clearly wrong and will probably never change his opinion . all we can do is point out that we are all equal and all lives matter what ever race, colour or creed they are

Laughable.

Based on your thinking, I can’t understand why the likes of Sterling, Rashford and Southgate are making such a big fuss about black athletes receiving racial abuse, if it’s only ‘name calling’ after all. They should just suck it up. Likewise, perhaps we could all go back to referring to people from Pakistan as ‘Packies’ as well - just because you were brought up in an era where that was common place. I expect you also think that the Black and White Minstrel Show is good, wholesome family entertainment for a Saturday night as well. It makes you sound like an apologist for racism.

I wouldn't normally reply to someone with such obviously bigoted views. Perhaps you should read my comments again and try to understand what I am trying to say. You cannot change History although you personally may not wish to acknowledge it . Times change and peoples views often change too, perhaps you should occasionally accept that your views are not necessarily the correct views , we are all entitled to our opinions whether they are agreeable to you or not. As an aside I personally never watched the Black and White Minstrel Show! obviously you did or you wouldn't have an opinion on what the show was appearing to portray

Calling out and challenging your view does not count as bigotry my friend. It just means that I don’t agree with your view of the world. I happen to think that what you have said is part of the problem in tackling racism in society.

There are far too many people who are willing to sweep racism under the carpet, ignore it and hope it will go away or (as you appear to have done), label it as ‘name calling’ - rather than confront it and have those difficult conversations as a society.

We have a situation here where our football club are quite rightly trying to take a tough line on racism in the ground and then we have posters who are appearing to say its only name calling and that can’t hurt you and it’s always existed and in the era I was brought up in people from Pakistan were referred to as ‘Packies’. And therefore if the use of the word ‘Packies’ back in the 1970s was commonplace, does that in some perverse way justify racial abuse today ? I think not.

There are far too many people who are ‘locked into’ this way of thinking and are too prepared to accept racism as ‘just the way things are’.

I do appreciate that my response has irritated you, but In my view calling that kind of excuse making and unacceptable language out is hardly bigotry and I think it is required.

[bellwhiff]

Race was , is and always will be a debatable subject and name calling is the easy option to express feelings but it does show a basic lack of thought for other people ...however as my dear old dad to say "sticks and stones can hurt my bones but calling cannot hurt me " I was brought up in the era when Paddy was an Irishman , Jock was a Scotsmen and Taffy was a Welshman and Pakistanis were Packys and so on...This racial stereotyping is not just a British thing but is found all over the world and is the butt of jokes worldwide...In Australia,,,where does an Englishman hide his money..under his bar of soap...and so on and so on but in my opinion the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion by the Black Lives Matter fiasco and has now gone into over drive and every TV advert appears to have a Black person in it to an excessive degree bearing in mind black people represent some 4% of the population . Everyone should have a job according to their talent not just because its right . The person in the Stand shouting abuse was clearly wrong and will probably never change his opinion . all we can do is point out that we are all equal and all lives matter what ever race, colour or creed they are

Spoken like a true middle aged white bloke.

Sorry that’s not the correct reply. I’m a middle aged white bloke. So are you. I think you should apologise for a broadbrush stereotype which isn’t needed.

This post is just pure ignorance. You’re doing exactly what he’s doing. Can’t you see that ?

[Steve North]

Race was , is and always will be a debatable subject and name calling is the easy option to express feelings but it does show a basic lack of thought for other people ...however as my dear old dad to say "sticks and stones can hurt my bones but calling cannot hurt me " I was brought up in the era when Paddy was an Irishman , Jock was a Scotsmen and Taffy was a Welshman and Pakistanis were Packys and so on...This racial stereotyping is not just a British thing but is found all over the world and is the butt of jokes worldwide...In Australia,,,where does an Englishman hide his money..under his bar of soap...and so on and so on but in my opinion the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion by the Black Lives Matter fiasco and has now gone into over drive and every TV advert appears to have a Black person in it to an excessive degree bearing in mind black people represent some 4% of the population . Everyone should have a job according to their talent not just because its right . The person in the Stand shouting abuse was clearly wrong and will probably never change his opinion . all we can do is point out that we are all equal and all lives matter what ever race, colour or creed they are

Spoken like a true middle aged white bloke.

Sorry that’s not the correct reply. I’m a middle aged white bloke. So are you. I think you should apologise for a broadbrush stereotype which isn’t needed.

This post is just pure ignorance. You’re doing exactly what he’s doing. Can’t you see that ?

I think I agree - there are many white fifty somethings like me who don’t have those bigoted views.

[Bradders]

It's excellent that the club is prepared to act to show that we don't tolerate racism. Demonstrates that it's not just a case of them paying lip service to the notion.

If the stewards had been told to just ask racists to be more quiet about it, I'd feel very uncomfortable going to matches thinking that I'm being associated with these people. I'm a lot happier to imagine that most people there are neither racist nor apologists for racism, and that the few who might be so inclined are aware that they are a very much marginalised small minority.

Those that give excuses for such behaviour or want to ignore it, are a part of the problem.

[georgefostersbeard]

Race was , is and always will be a debatable subject and name calling is the easy option to express feelings but it does show a basic lack of thought for other people ...however as my dear old dad to say "sticks and stones can hurt my bones but calling cannot hurt me " I was brought up in the era when Paddy was an Irishman , Jock was a Scotsmen and Taffy was a Welshman and Pakistanis were Packys and so on...This racial stereotyping is not just a British thing but is found all over the world and is the butt of jokes worldwide...In Australia,,,where does an Englishman hide his money..under his bar of soap...and so on and so on but in my opinion the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion by the Black Lives Matter fiasco and has now gone into over drive and every TV advert appears to have a Black person in it to an excessive degree bearing in mind black people represent some 4% of the population . Everyone should have a job according to their talent not just because its right . The person in the Stand shouting abuse was clearly wrong and will probably never change his opinion . all we can do is point out that we are all equal and all lives matter what ever race, colour or creed they are

Race is not a debateable subject at all. The name calling / sticks and stones argument that calling someone the P word was only banter has no place in reality. There might have white people thinking that it was all a laugh but it was part of the daily racism that people of colour had to put up with some of which still continues. Things like deciding to anglicise someone's name because 'it is too hard to say' is still something I come across and it is all about showing a lack of acceptance of PoC or other cultures.

With regards your dislike of BLM or seeing black people on telly too often, none of this has any relevance to the original post which was to commend one of our fans for reporting another of our fans racially abusing one of our young players. All you have done is to try to explain away racist abuse.

Bluntly, what you tolerate you set as an expectation. I don't think we should tolerate racist comments being made about players or anyone else.
Do you, Diablo?

[bellwhiff]

I see the racists are out on Facebook on the club page. Excusing it as a “few bad words”.

If you’re on here too, you’re a raspberry

[oldweststander]

I see the racists are out on Facebook on the club page. Excusing it as a “few bad words”.

If you’re on here too, you’re a raspberry

Jesus?

[Hjeldefan]

We really are breeding a snowflake generation , no one likes racist remarks but like Irish /Scottish / French /jokes it will never go away ..

If reporting racism makes someone a snowflake, then the world would be a better place for it.

[Steve North]

We really are breeding a snowflake generation , no one likes racist remarks but like Irish /Scottish / French /jokes it will never go away ..

If reporting racism makes someone a snowflake, then the world would be a better place for it.

Spot on my friend.

This is an interesting debate as it exposes the cracks and frailties within our society and also provides an insight into some of the views people have who regularly post on here - already on this thread we have seen someone plead for us to stop talking about it, someone saying that challenging racism is ‘snowflake’ behaviour and someone also suggesting that it is only name calling and that it is all ok since in their era is was commonplace to use the word ‘Paki’ when referring to a person from Pakistan.

It all goes to show that there is more work to be done and we as individuals need to take responsibility and engage in those difficult conversations.

Racially abusing black athletes is a shameful, hurtful act. Doing so to young men, your own players, who are regularly racially abused is doubly shameful. Pretending this has something to do with “keeping politics out”, or that creeping “Marxism” is a threat to your way of life in Britain (Conservative majority: 83) is cowardly and disingenuous.

It is worth remembering in the middle of all this that football is just an amplification of what is out there. If there are racists, boneheads and people without compassion at football matches, this is because these people exist in England. The harm they do is not confined to, contained by, or even that relevant to football. Football has to live with it, because no other physical human activity offers this soapbox, this visible theatre of hate.

[x-type]

This quotation might be pertinent:-

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”

[diablo]

Race was , is and always will be a debatable subject and name calling is the easy option to express feelings but it does show a basic lack of thought for other people ...however as my dear old dad to say "sticks and stones can hurt my bones but calling cannot hurt me " I was brought up in the era when Paddy was an Irishman , Jock was a Scotsmen and Taffy was a Welshman and Pakistanis were Packys and so on...This racial stereotyping is not just a British thing but is found all over the world and is the butt of jokes worldwide...In Australia,,,where does an Englishman hide his money..under his bar of soap...and so on and so on but in my opinion the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion by the Black Lives Matter fiasco and has now gone into over drive and every TV advert appears to have a Black person in it to an excessive degree bearing in mind black people represent some 4% of the population . Everyone should have a job according to their talent not just because its right . The person in the Stand shouting abuse was clearly wrong and will probably never change his opinion . all we can do is point out that we are all equal and all lives matter what ever race, colour or creed they are

Laughable.

Based on your thinking, I can’t understand why the likes of Sterling, Rashford and Southgate are making such a big fuss about black athletes receiving racial abuse, if it’s only ‘name calling’ after all. They should just suck it up. Likewise, perhaps we could all go back to referring to people from Pakistan as ‘Packies’ as well - just because you were brought up in an era where that was common place. I expect you also think that the Black and White Minstrel Show is good, wholesome family entertainment for a Saturday night as well. It makes you sound like an apologist for racism.

I wouldn't normally reply to someone with such obviously bigoted views. Perhaps you should read my comments again and try to understand what I am trying to say. You cannot change History although you personally may not wish to acknowledge it . Times change and peoples views often change too, perhaps you should occasionally accept that your views are not necessarily the correct views , we are all entitled to our opinions whether they are agreeable to you or not. As an aside I personally never watched the Black and White Minstrel Show! obviously you did or you wouldn't have an opinion on what the show was appearing to portray

Calling out and challenging your view does not count as bigotry my friend. It just means that I don’t agree with your view of the world. I happen to think that what you have said is part of the problem in tackling racism in society.

There are far too many people who are willing to sweep racism under the carpet, ignore it and hope it will go away or (as you appear to have done), label it as ‘name calling’ - rather than confront it and have those difficult conversations as a society.

We have a situation here where our football club are quite rightly trying to take a tough line on racism in the ground and then we have posters who are appearing to say its only name calling and that can’t hurt you and it’s always existed and in the era I was brought up in people from Pakistan were referred to as ‘Packies’. And therefore if the use of the word ‘Packies’ back in the 1970s was commonplace, does that in some perverse way justify racial abuse today ? I think not.

There are far too many people who are ‘locked into’ this way of thinking and are too prepared to accept racism as ‘just the way things are’.

I do appreciate that my response has irritated you, but In my view calling that kind of excuse making and unacceptable language out is hardly bigotry and I think it is required.

The only thing that irritated me was your comment saying my views were " laughable " and by making it a stand alone comment I translate that to be a very rude and dismissive comment.
My view is simple, racism is wrong and as I pointed out shouting abuse is clearly wrong . My final comments still stand ,in my opinion we are all equal whatever our race ,colour or creed

[Bradders]

We really are breeding a snowflake generation , no one likes racist remarks but like Irish /Scottish / French /jokes it will never go away ..

If reporting racism makes someone a snowflake, then the world would be a better place for it.

Irish /Scottish / French /jokes have mostly gone away, as stereotyping is seen as an unfunny copout for desperate comedians. If one of my mates started telling a joke starting "Paddy walks in to a bar..." I'd walk off.

The problem with calling people "snowflakes" for feeling uncomfortable with racists is that it shows how you miss the point. Racism isn't just about attacking people physically, or with abuse, or passing over them for employment, and claiming that "everyone is equal". One of the worst aspects is people who think that they're just having a laugh when mocking others, so the others should just put up with it. It's like mocking someone in a wheelchair, or who has a speech impediment. Why should they have to put up with being treated in a degrading way? Can't people accept that for what they see as a little harmless fun, it actually causes pain to someone else? Even if you think that they are over-sensitive, why not just accept that they are hurt? When everyone gives all others the respect they deserve, then the country would be a better place. But for the sake of "a bit of a laugh" we aren't that better place.

[Steve North]

Race was , is and always will be a debatable subject and name calling is the easy option to express feelings but it does show a basic lack of thought for other people ...however as my dear old dad to say "sticks and stones can hurt my bones but calling cannot hurt me " I was brought up in the era when Paddy was an Irishman , Jock was a Scotsmen and Taffy was a Welshman and Pakistanis were Packys and so on...This racial stereotyping is not just a British thing but is found all over the world and is the butt of jokes worldwide...In Australia,,,where does an Englishman hide his money..under his bar of soap...and so on and so on but in my opinion the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion by the Black Lives Matter fiasco and has now gone into over drive and every TV advert appears to have a Black person in it to an excessive degree bearing in mind black people represent some 4% of the population . Everyone should have a job according to their talent not just because its right . The person in the Stand shouting abuse was clearly wrong and will probably never change his opinion . all we can do is point out that we are all equal and all lives matter what ever race, colour or creed they are

Laughable.

Based on your thinking, I can’t understand why the likes of Sterling, Rashford and Southgate are making such a big fuss about black athletes receiving racial abuse, if it’s only ‘name calling’ after all. They should just suck it up. Likewise, perhaps we could all go back to referring to people from Pakistan as ‘Packies’ as well - just because you were brought up in an era where that was common place. I expect you also think that the Black and White Minstrel Show is good, wholesome family entertainment for a Saturday night as well. It makes you sound like an apologist for racism.

I wouldn't normally reply to someone with such obviously bigoted views. Perhaps you should read my comments again and try to understand what I am trying to say. You cannot change History although you personally may not wish to acknowledge it . Times change and peoples views often change too, perhaps you should occasionally accept that your views are not necessarily the correct views , we are all entitled to our opinions whether they are agreeable to you or not. As an aside I personally never watched the Black and White Minstrel Show! obviously you did or you wouldn't have an opinion on what the show was appearing to portray

Calling out and challenging your view does not count as bigotry my friend. It just means that I don’t agree with your view of the world. I happen to think that what you have said is part of the problem in tackling racism in society.

There are far too many people who are willing to sweep racism under the carpet, ignore it and hope it will go away or (as you appear to have done), label it as ‘name calling’ - rather than confront it and have those difficult conversations as a society.

We have a situation here where our football club are quite rightly trying to take a tough line on racism in the ground and then we have posters who are appearing to say its only name calling and that can’t hurt you and it’s always existed and in the era I was brought up in people from Pakistan were referred to as ‘Packies’. And therefore if the use of the word ‘Packies’ back in the 1970s was commonplace, does that in some perverse way justify racial abuse today ? I think not.

There are far too many people who are ‘locked into’ this way of thinking and are too prepared to accept racism as ‘just the way things are’.

I do appreciate that my response has irritated you, but In my view calling that kind of excuse making and unacceptable language out is hardly bigotry and I think it is required.

The only thing that irritated me was your comment saying my views were " laughable " and by making it a stand alone comment I translate that to be a very rude and dismissive comment.
My view is simple, racism is wrong and as I pointed out shouting abuse is clearly wrong . My final comments still stand ,in my opinion we are all equal whatever our race ,colour or creed

Thank you for clarifying.

[bellwhiff]

I hate the insult snowflake. It’s just says “I don’t have an answer for that”

[Steve North]

I hate the insult snowflake. It’s just says “I don’t have an answer for that”

I dislike it. I cannot remember when it first appeared. Like a lot of these trite phrases, it is a cop out used by people who can’t articulate themselves.

I want to say that it was first used in the movie Fight Club, but I could be wrong.

[oldweststander]

This quotation might be pertinent:-

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”

Very true, it has been reported for goodness sake, let due process procede. So many self righteous folks on this thread led by the usual protagonists.

[x-type]

This is my favourite

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool
Than to speak out and remove all doubt”

Attributed to Abraham Lincoln

[Sneag]

Race was , is and always will be a debatable subject and name calling is the easy option to express feelings but it does show a basic lack of thought for other people ...however as my dear old dad to say "sticks and stones can hurt my bones but calling cannot hurt me " I was brought up in the era when Paddy was an Irishman , Jock was a Scotsmen and Taffy was a Welshman and Pakistanis were Packys and so on...This racial stereotyping is not just a British thing but is found all over the world and is the butt of jokes worldwide...In Australia,,,where does an Englishman hide his money..under his bar of soap...and so on and so on but in my opinion the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion by the Black Lives Matter fiasco and has now gone into over drive and every TV advert appears to have a Black person in it to an excessive degree bearing in mind black people represent some 4% of the population . Everyone should have a job according to their talent not just because its right . The person in the Stand shouting abuse was clearly wrong and will probably never change his opinion . all we can do is point out that we are all equal and all lives matter what ever race, colour or creed they are

Spoken like a true middle aged white bloke.

Sorry that’s not the correct reply. I’m a middle aged white bloke. So are you. I think you should apologise for a broadbrush stereotype which isn’t needed.

This post is just pure ignorance. You’re doing exactly what he’s doing. Can’t you see that ?

No it's the correct reply. I am a middle aged white bloke, therefore I have no concept of what it is like to be black in the UK, so I can't make comments like 'the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion' and expect to be taken seriously.

[bellwhiff]

Race was , is and always will be a debatable subject and name calling is the easy option to express feelings but it does show a basic lack of thought for other people ...however as my dear old dad to say "sticks and stones can hurt my bones but calling cannot hurt me " I was brought up in the era when Paddy was an Irishman , Jock was a Scotsmen and Taffy was a Welshman and Pakistanis were Packys and so on...This racial stereotyping is not just a British thing but is found all over the world and is the butt of jokes worldwide...In Australia,,,where does an Englishman hide his money..under his bar of soap...and so on and so on but in my opinion the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion by the Black Lives Matter fiasco and has now gone into over drive and every TV advert appears to have a Black person in it to an excessive degree bearing in mind black people represent some 4% of the population . Everyone should have a job according to their talent not just because its right . The person in the Stand shouting abuse was clearly wrong and will probably never change his opinion . all we can do is point out that we are all equal and all lives matter what ever race, colour or creed they are

Spoken like a true middle aged white bloke.

Sorry that’s not the correct reply. I’m a middle aged white bloke. So are you. I think you should apologise for a broadbrush stereotype which isn’t needed.

This post is just pure ignorance. You’re doing exactly what he’s doing. Can’t you see that ?

No it's the correct reply. I am a middle aged white bloke, therefore I have no concept of what it is like to be black in the UK, so I can't make comments like 'the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion' and expect to be taken seriously.

Utter utter raspberrys. You’re castigating a whole section of society for the actions of one clown on here. That’s immensely prejudicial. If you did that to black people, or Asians, you’d be rightly called a racist. I make no comment about the lived experience of black people either but I can comment on the lived experience of this white middle aged man and your comment is offensive.

[Sneag]

Race was , is and always will be a debatable subject and name calling is the easy option to express feelings but it does show a basic lack of thought for other people ...however as my dear old dad to say "sticks and stones can hurt my bones but calling cannot hurt me " I was brought up in the era when Paddy was an Irishman , Jock was a Scotsmen and Taffy was a Welshman and Pakistanis were Packys and so on...This racial stereotyping is not just a British thing but is found all over the world and is the butt of jokes worldwide...In Australia,,,where does an Englishman hide his money..under his bar of soap...and so on and so on but in my opinion the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion by the Black Lives Matter fiasco and has now gone into over drive and every TV advert appears to have a Black person in it to an excessive degree bearing in mind black people represent some 4% of the population . Everyone should have a job according to their talent not just because its right . The person in the Stand shouting abuse was clearly wrong and will probably never change his opinion . all we can do is point out that we are all equal and all lives matter what ever race, colour or creed they are

Spoken like a true middle aged white bloke.

Sorry that’s not the correct reply. I’m a middle aged white bloke. So are you. I think you should apologise for a broadbrush stereotype which isn’t needed.

This post is just pure ignorance. You’re doing exactly what he’s doing. Can’t you see that ?

No it's the correct reply. I am a middle aged white bloke, therefore I have no concept of what it is like to be black in the UK, so I can't make comments like 'the whole colour thing has been blown up out of all proportion' and expect to be taken seriously.

Utter utter raspberrys. You’re castigating a whole section of society for the actions of one clown on here. That’s immensely prejudicial. If you did that to black people, or Asians, you’d be rightly called a racist. I make no comment about the lived experience of black people either but I can comment on the lived experience of this white middle aged man and your comment is offensive.

Deliberately missing the point as usual.

The OP WAS making a comment on the lived experience of black people from a white perspective. But then you knew that already. My comment stands raspberry you.

[Rob]

I'm also in my early 50s and understand Sneags point, though I do agree with your other points belly. I also agree with most on here, especially Steve who makes some excellent points. I'm sure many of my age have parents who use language that just isn't appropriate today, it's a really tricky conundrum as it is almost impossible for them to change, believe me I've tried! Some have just never adjusted to, or accepted, multi-culturalism, some never will.

Well done dp_ for reporting it.

[PEAR CIDER]

We all know that when a certain generation dies out, this will die out with it, in large - which is excellent.

No one should have to experience racism or any ism for that matter.

slightly off-topic although I feel relevant, we are going to find ourselves with a generation of children who are too mollycoddled to function, too politically correct to understand what goes on in the real world, never experiencing losing in things like sports days, so when it comes to adult life, they have zero capabilities.

I suppose the reason I mention this, is that perhaps we are going too far the other way with society itself, with trying to drill it home. Maybe we should be asking why it exists in the first place, attempt to educate instead of forcing the issues.

[bellwhiff]

Deliberately missing the point as usual.

The OP WAS making a comment on the lived experience of black people from a white perspective. But then you knew that already. My comment stands raspberry you.

Oh dear. A bloke makes a bigoted and ignorant point about a group of people and you think it’s sensible to make a bigoted and ignorant point about a group of people. You might want to ponder on your comment. It’s bigoted and castigates people unfairly.

By the way, I was amongst the fans at Swindon who booed the Swindon team for taking a knee. I looked around and not one of those I saw booing was middle aged. Oh dear.

[yorkstag]

I’ve read this debate with interest and I agree with some of the posts on here that some comments are generational. One of the problems is that some phrases used which are now considered racist weren’t. Who decides when things change and who tells people.

Not everyone who uses inappropriate terminology is racist or ignorant.

I don’t agree with booing teams that take the knee but we don’t and I would be interested why. Clearly our players don’t feel they need to take the knee but that clearly doesn’t make them racist.

[Amber Andy]

This quotation might be pertinent:-

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”

Very true, it has been reported for goodness sake, let due process procede. So many self righteous folks on this thread led by the usual protagonists.

You miss the point. We are a family club. We don't want kids listen to this kind of thing. It pleases me the seriousness with which some of the posters are taking.