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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Billy the fish » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:18 pm

yorkshire stag wrote:
west country stag wrote:Reality is that if match results dont improve i can see gates dropping to the 3000 mark that wont please JR after all the money he has invested in the team .
There will be pressure on Sharpe & Co to get recruitment right & not making do with what we can get in .


sadly apart from non contracted players we are stuck now, whatever way you try to dress it up, our defence hasn’t been strengthened, apart from the keeper.

Question is who is to blame ?
1.Sharp
2.Clough
3.his brother

we all want success for our team, everyone excepts you can’t win every game however what is not is poor recruitment from a vastly experienced management team for two windows on the trot

that defence is coming up short, it’s plain to see it’s not good enough, & most of all everybody can see it, & knows what’s needed to fix it!

Yes we have Nigel Clough & his management team at the helm, great stuff we are lucky, however it’s not getting any better in the pitch is it ?

is it time to change ?

no absolutely not, however is it expectable on the pitch ? no it isn’t

is he our long term solution & saviour ?

i hope so, more than anything, however they are not above criticism


Don’t start the criticism Yorkshire it’s not aloud on here god help the country if we ever went to war again .. the reality is we are failing yet again and look no better than last season , Sweeney looks head and shoulders above Cloughs replacements yet was shipped out ..
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:26 pm

Billy the fish wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:
west country stag wrote:Reality is that if match results dont improve i can see gates dropping to the 3000 mark that wont please JR after all the money he has invested in the team .
There will be pressure on Sharpe & Co to get recruitment right & not making do with what we can get in .


sadly apart from non contracted players we are stuck now, whatever way you try to dress it up, our defence hasn’t been strengthened, apart from the keeper.

Question is who is to blame ?
1.Sharp
2.Clough
3.his brother

we all want success for our team, everyone excepts you can’t win every game however what is not is poor recruitment from a vastly experienced management team for two windows on the trot

that defence is coming up short, it’s plain to see it’s not good enough, & most of all everybody can see it, & knows what’s needed to fix it!

Yes we have Nigel Clough & his management team at the helm, great stuff we are lucky, however it’s not getting any better in the pitch is it ?

is it time to change ?

no absolutely not, however is it expectable on the pitch ? no it isn’t

is he our long term solution & saviour ?

i hope so, more than anything, however they are not above criticism


Don’t start the criticism Yorkshire it’s not aloud on here god help the country if we ever went to war again .. the reality is we are failing yet again and look no better than last season , Sweeney looks head and shoulders above Cloughs replacements yet was shipped out ..


Sweeney was not good last year, or really the year before that. I wouldn't say he's 'head and shoulders' above what we have. Maybe in that flitcroft team, but that was like 3/4 seasons a go now..
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Sneag » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:33 pm

The biggest problems wiith the divs that populate Stagsnet is that they can't grasp that football matches involve 2 teams & the two teams do their utmost to stop the other team from winning.

There is a mentality here that we are entitled to win, that the players we sign will automatically be the best in the division & that if welose it's because we are bad, not because the opposition on the day were simply better. We are6 games into 46 game season & to all the clowns writing the season off already, take look at Bolton last season. Take a look at Cox's Stags teams.

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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Gazmoose82 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:36 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
Norman wrote:
Gazmoose82 wrote:
london amber stag wrote:This forum when we lose is a total over reaction six games in. We were world beaters a month ago and now the world has ended. Granted results have not gone well recently but it’s like we are relegation bound. I cannot stand the entitlement of some of the posters on here. It takes time to build a successful team and Clough knows how to do this. Losing Naylor was a major blow but we need to forget this and deal with the here and now. Give Clough a break and stop the constant whining. We have had tough opening fixtures and I am sure we will pick up points in the next few games.
The same naysayers pop up every time we lose but are nowhere to be seen when things go our way.
I will support Clough as we definitely have the right manager at the helm.


Ok so seem as i will probably be one of the 'negative naysayers' you speak of id just like to speak up here... I'm not buying all this crap about clough needs time to build a team... He's had a January window & the entire summer to assemble a lg2 promotion challenging team and has failed in both! Look at the 11 out on the pitch today and tell me it was any better than what was on display during dempster or coughlans tenures?! We had far better squads under both evans and flitcroft also.

His experience and credentials are obviously strong there's no denying that but its clearly not working out here for some reason (the old Mansfield curse?) but cloughie being cloughie he seems too stubborn to shift from his failing tactics & formation that the whole world can see isn't working!

I read on here everyday from the happy clappers things like "in clough we trust" or "we'll start picking up points soon just see" but personnally i dont see it... Were currently an expensively put together lower lg2 team which seemingly is our place forever :(

What are the things you guys are seeing which are convincing you things will improve and that cloughie is the god you all seem to bow down to? (genuine question before the usual 'troll' or 'he's a Spirite' comments) because all i see is a directionless mess lacking in leadership & quality across the board!.


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Point proven amber andy... You have no decent input apart from calling anyone who disagrees with your happy clapping a troll!
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:40 pm

Sneag wrote:The biggest problems wiith the divs that populate Stagsnet is that they can't grasp that football matches involve 2 teams & the two teams do their utmost to stop the other team from winning.

There is a mentality here that we are entitled to win, that the players we sign will automatically be the best in the division & that if welose it's because we are bad, not because the opposition on the day were simply better. We are6 games into 46 game season & to all the clowns writing the season off already, take look at Bolton last season. Take a look at Cox's Stags teams.

It's a marathon not a sprint.


Brilliant post, you've summed this place up bang on
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Gazmoose82 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:48 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sneag wrote:The biggest problems wiith the divs that populate Stagsnet is that they can't grasp that football matches involve 2 teams & the two teams do their utmost to stop the other team from winning.

There is a mentality here that we are entitled to win, that the players we sign will automatically be the best in the division & that if welose it's because we are bad, not because the opposition on the day were simply better. We are6 games into 46 game season & to all the clowns writing the season off already, take look at Bolton last season. Take a look at Cox's Stags teams.

It's a marathon not a sprint.


Brilliant post, you've summed this place up bang on


Yes were all 'divs' :roll:

Of course you know best
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Billy the fish » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:10 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
Billy the fish wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:
west country stag wrote:Reality is that if match results dont improve i can see gates dropping to the 3000 mark that wont please JR after all the money he has invested in the team .
There will be pressure on Sharpe & Co to get recruitment right & not making do with what we can get in .


sadly apart from non contracted players we are stuck now, whatever way you try to dress it up, our defence hasn’t been strengthened, apart from the keeper.

Question is who is to blame ?
1.Sharp
2.Clough
3.his brother

we all want success for our team, everyone excepts you can’t win every game however what is not is poor recruitment from a vastly experienced management team for two windows on the trot

that defence is coming up short, it’s plain to see it’s not good enough, & most of all everybody can see it, & knows what’s needed to fix it!

Yes we have Nigel Clough & his management team at the helm, great stuff we are lucky, however it’s not getting any better in the pitch is it ?

is it time to change ?

no absolutely not, however is it expectable on the pitch ? no it isn’t

is he our long term solution & saviour ?

i hope so, more than anything, however they are not above criticism


Don’t start the criticism Yorkshire it’s not aloud on here god help the country if we ever went to war again .. the reality is we are failing yet again and look no better than last season , Sweeney looks head and shoulders above Cloughs replacements yet was shipped out ..


Sweeney was not good last year, or really the year before that. I wouldn't say he's 'head and shoulders' above what we have. Maybe in that flitcroft team, but that was like 3/4 seasons a go now..


And that’s where we disagree Sweeney had a mistake in him conceded but was a better defender than any replacement since .. a message board of opinions hey !!
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:14 pm

I think Nartey will improve over time, he just needs time to settle.

We haven't even seen Forrester play yet.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby chip63 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:20 pm

One from Sweeney, Rawson had to leave, if not both.
How you can judge Sweeney being better than Nautey after 1 game and less than a week with the squad is just wrong.
Let's wait til the end of this month before worrying.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby adamstag » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:53 pm

chip63 wrote:One from Sweeney, Rawson had to leave, if not both.
How you can judge Sweeney being better than Nautey after 1 game and less than a week with the squad is just wrong.
Let's wait til the end of this month before worrying.


I agree about Nautey, not exactly great yesterday but he’s 4 days into his spell here! sweeney and rawson were and are both absolutely hopeless, that was rawson is still here is also odd.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Amber Andy » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:19 pm

Gazmoose82 wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
Norman wrote:
Gazmoose82 wrote:
london amber stag wrote:This forum when we lose is a total over reaction six games in. We were world beaters a month ago and now the world has ended. Granted results have not gone well recently but it’s like we are relegation bound. I cannot stand the entitlement of some of the posters on here. It takes time to build a successful team and Clough knows how to do this. Losing Naylor was a major blow but we need to forget this and deal with the here and now. Give Clough a break and stop the constant whining. We have had tough opening fixtures and I am sure we will pick up points in the next few games.
The same naysayers pop up every time we lose but are nowhere to be seen when things go our way.
I will support Clough as we definitely have the right manager at the helm.


Ok so seem as i will probably be one of the 'negative naysayers' you speak of id just like to speak up here... I'm not buying all this crap about clough needs time to build a team... He's had a January window & the entire summer to assemble a lg2 promotion challenging team and has failed in both! Look at the 11 out on the pitch today and tell me it was any better than what was on display during dempster or coughlans tenures?! We had far better squads under both evans and flitcroft also.

His experience and credentials are obviously strong there's no denying that but its clearly not working out here for some reason (the old Mansfield curse?) but cloughie being cloughie he seems too stubborn to shift from his failing tactics & formation that the whole world can see isn't working!

I read on here everyday from the happy clappers things like "in clough we trust" or "we'll start picking up points soon just see" but personnally i dont see it... Were currently an expensively put together lower lg2 team which seemingly is our place forever :(

What are the things you guys are seeing which are convincing you things will improve and that cloughie is the god you all seem to bow down to? (genuine question before the usual 'troll' or 'he's a Spirite' comments) because all i see is a directionless mess lacking in leadership & quality across the board!.


Bang on!
Trip, trap, trip trap. Don't be taken in.


Point proven amber andy... You have no decent input apart from calling anyone who disagrees with your happy clapping a troll!
So me and Bobby are wrong, you are not a troll ? Apologies if we are wrong. However, your posts are causing a lot of negativity on this board.
No happy clapping from me. We were awful yesterday.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:24 pm

A quick look at the Prediction league on this site, it would appear that (from points accrued and lost yesterday) most posters were very optimistic about our chances after 3 defeats against the top of the league form team. The sense from a few people around me at the game was that after our early goal we were going to stick a shed load past Harrogate.
We then performed badly, with the centre halves performing badly, the keeper being man of the match after conceding three, two stupid sending offs (Clarke's sending off was partially from a stupid booking for Nartey in the first half which meant that he didn't really try to tackle their attacker) and some fans accusing players of not caring or playing for the shirt. My concern was the total lack of significant change from Clough and Garner when we were being overrun in the second half. We also have two of last year's form players underperforming.

If you look at the disconnect between the expectation before the game and the reality, it is no surprise whatsoever that people were so angry last night and today. That said, some of the comments are very hard to understand. Some of them are just ridiculous.

The main concern for me is that people's expectations seem to be based against the need for promotion this season when Sharp and Clough have given several clear explanations of what the long term strategy is over coming years. We all know that Clough is, by reputation, stubborn and sticks to his approach and so we should not have been surprised that he was not prepared to make a knee jerk signing even if it meant we finish the window without the centre halves the fans expect.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:36 pm

georgefostersbeard wrote:A quick look at the Prediction league on this site, it would appear that (from points accrued and lost yesterday) most posters were very optimistic about our chances after 3 defeats against the top of the league form team. The sense from a few people around me at the game was that after our early goal we were going to stick a shed load past Harrogate.
We then performed badly, with the centre halves performing badly, the keeper being man of the match after conceding three, two stupid sending offs (Clarke's sending off was partially from a stupid booking for Nartey in the first half which meant that he didn't really try to tackle their attacker) and some fans accusing players of not caring or playing for the shirt. My concern was the total lack of significant change from Clough and Garner when we were being overrun in the second half. We also have two of last year's form players underperforming.

If you look at the disconnect between the expectation before the game and the reality, it is no surprise whatsoever that people were so angry last night and today. That said, some of the comments are very hard to understand. Some of them are just ridiculous.

The main concern for me is that people's expectations seem to be based against the need for promotion this season when Sharp and Clough have given several clear explanations of what the long term strategy is over coming years. We all know that Clough is, by reputation, stubborn and sticks to his approach and so we should not have been surprised that he was not prepared to make a knee jerk signing even if it meant we finish the window without the centre halves the fans expect.


All very sensible George but do you mean he's stubborn in his approach to his transfer policy or approach to formation and tactics also?

My only gripe with him so far is he seems inactive when things aren't going well in the match, imo he's been "out managed" against Bradford and Harrogate.

I'm not going to even call him "reactive" as against Bradford they 3-4 warning shots down our right that they fluffed but he did nothing, they equalised and he still didn't do anything, he had a poor day against Bradford.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby 1970Stag » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:50 pm

I think we are entitled to moan when we knew the defence and gk were weak, and he seems to have weakened that area. It was an absolute shambles yesterday, I know Clough keeps moaning about refs, but I'm not sure it's the ref heading the ball in unmarked from a corner, or letting a cross in unchallenged into the box, it's just absolutely rubbish defending, and that's what really annoys me. I dont expect us to be top, but I expect us to be challenging in the playoffs. Let's see where we are after 10 games.
Walsall away on saturday is a chance to turn it around, and after that is it Rochdale, Leyton Orient and Barrow, surely a chance to put some more points on the board?
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Amber Andy » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:14 pm

1970Stag wrote:I think we are entitled to moan when we knew the defence and gk were weak, and he seems to have weakened that area. It was an absolute shambles yesterday, I know Clough keeps moaning about refs, but I'm not sure it's the ref heading the ball in unmarked from a corner, or letting a cross in unchallenged into the box, it's just absolutely rubbish defending, and that's what really annoys me. I dont expect us to be top, but I expect us to be challenging in the playoffs. Let's see where we are after 10 games.
Walsall away on saturday is a chance to turn it around, and after that is it Rochdale, Leyton Orient and Barrow, surely a chance to put some more points on the board?
Barrow beat Oldham yesterday emphatically 0 - 3. They had only five players on the bench two of which were goalkeepers, due to an injury crisis. They are currently above us in the league. Like last year, they won't be a pushover.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:19 pm

I’ve just re-watched the game and have had tried to be objective despite the result.

I don’t think we were as bad as some remember and certainly the two centre halves played better than they are being given credit for.

Before the two sendings off, we were looking lively with Harrogate resorting to fouling which should have led to more cards. We had just brought Johnson on and we’re looking like we may equalise. Obviously the red cards put paid to that.

So not quite as discontented as I was after the match but realise we are still a bit short. It’s still early days and it’s a long season. I think we will still be knocking come May particularly if we can pick up a decent unattached defender who is preferably right footed.

Ps

Rawson headed the ball well after he came on.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:21 pm

1970Stag wrote:I think we are entitled to moan when we knew the defence and gk were weak, and he seems to have weakened that area. It was an absolute shambles yesterday, I know Clough keeps moaning about refs, but I'm not sure it's the ref heading the ball in unmarked from a corner, or letting a cross in unchallenged into the box, it's just absolutely rubbish defending, and that's what really annoys me. I dont expect us to be top, but I expect us to be challenging in the playoffs. Let's see where we are after 10 games.
Walsall away on saturday is a chance to turn it around, and after that is it Rochdale, Leyton Orient and Barrow, surely a chance to put some more points on the board?


Are you saying that Bishop has weakened the goalkeeping since taking over from Stone?
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby yorkstag » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:25 pm

Moaning solves nothing. I think the comment that we are entitled to moan is pretty sad tbh.

I think we are certainly entitled to be unhappy but whining doesn't help anyone. I agree the defensive issues need to be resolved and should have been. I watched a documentary on Brian and his philosophy was always keep clean sheets and work from there.

We will be fine ...so my advice is stop whining and get behind the boys. See you at Walsall

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Re: Negative posters.

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:43 pm

Parkinsons Perm wrote:
georgefostersbeard wrote:A quick look at the Prediction league on this site, it would appear that (from points accrued and lost yesterday) most posters were very optimistic about our chances after 3 defeats against the top of the league form team. The sense from a few people around me at the game was that after our early goal we were going to stick a shed load past Harrogate.
We then performed badly, with the centre halves performing badly, the keeper being man of the match after conceding three, two stupid sending offs (Clarke's sending off was partially from a stupid booking for Nartey in the first half which meant that he didn't really try to tackle their attacker) and some fans accusing players of not caring or playing for the shirt. My concern was the total lack of significant change from Clough and Garner when we were being overrun in the second half. We also have two of last year's form players underperforming.

If you look at the disconnect between the expectation before the game and the reality, it is no surprise whatsoever that people were so angry last night and today. That said, some of the comments are very hard to understand. Some of them are just ridiculous.

The main concern for me is that people's expectations seem to be based against the need for promotion this season when Sharp and Clough have given several clear explanations of what the long term strategy is over coming years. We all know that Clough is, by reputation, stubborn and sticks to his approach and so we should not have been surprised that he was not prepared to make a knee jerk signing even if it meant we finish the window without the centre halves the fans expect.


All very sensible George but do you mean he's stubborn in his approach to his transfer policy or approach to formation and tactics also?

My only gripe with him so far is he seems inactive when things aren't going well in the match, imo he's been "out managed" against Bradford and Harrogate.

I'm not going to even call him "reactive" as against Bradford they 3-4 warning shots down our right that they fluffed but he did nothing, they equalised and he still didn't do anything, he had a poor day against Bradford.


My comment was in play stubbornness / inability to show that his changes can successfully counter the problems on this pitch. Basically, i felt we were outscouted yesterday and he didn't make the necessary changes to gain a foothold in midfield.

In terms of his transfer policy - that is not stubbornness, it is sticking to the plan. And that is what is so frustrating for our fans who want to solve every problem in every transfer window even if that causes later problems financially.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:31 pm

If you unhappy about someimthing and then voice that opinion it is a moan or a complaint.

So if we, as mods, were to boan moaning we would have to ban the opposite which would be praise. It would only be fair. Those who just moan and offer nothing more is trolling. Something we are trying to cut out. Moan all you like but there must be something praise-worthy.

What tends to happen is people disagree with someone and then we get name calling (like above) that needs to be cut out. Just stop it. I've never seen a proper debate that was decided by how good an insult was (drunken idiots in the town centre doesn't count)

It's easy, someone says something you don't agree with then say so and maybe say why. Not "you are wrong poopyhead" or don't say anything if you disagree and you don't know why.

In my opinion. People have every right to criticise the manager. It's an open forum people can say what they want, if it's within the rules. By the same token people have every right to respond to that.

All people need to remember is you're entitled to your opinion, and others are entitled to an opinion of your opinion.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Billy the fish » Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:43 pm

gazza1988 wrote:If you unhappy about someimthing and then voice that opinion it is a moan or a complaint.

So if we, as mods, were to boan moaning we would have to ban the opposite which would be praise. It would only be fair. Those who just moan and offer nothing more is trolling. Something we are trying to cut out. Moan all you like but there must be something praise-worthy.

What tends to happen is people disagree with someone and then we get name calling (like above) that needs to be cut out. Just stop it. I've never seen a proper debate that was decided by how good an insult was (drunken idiots in the town centre doesn't count)

It's easy, someone says something you don't agree with then say so and maybe say why. Not "you are wrong poopyhead" or don't say anything if you disagree and you don't know why.

In my opinion. People have every right to criticise the manager. It's an open forum people can say what they want, if it's within the rules. By the same token people have every right to respond to that.

All people need to remember is you're entitled to your opinion, and others are entitled to an opinion of your opinion.


Correct , opinions cause debate hence this message board has survived this long
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby bear 73 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:18 pm

1970Stag wrote:I think we are entitled to moan when we knew the defence and gk were weak, and he seems to have weakened that area. It was an absolute shambles yesterday, I know Clough keeps moaning about refs, but I'm not sure it's the ref heading the ball in unmarked from a corner, or letting a cross in unchallenged into the box, it's just absolutely rubbish defending, and that's what really annoys me. I dont expect us to be top, but I expect us to be challenging in the playoffs. Let's see where we are after 10 games.
Walsall away on saturday is a chance to turn it around, and after that is it Rochdale, Leyton Orient and Barrow, surely a chance to put some more points on the board?

So Walsall drawn away at Bradford after being reduced to 10 men, is a walk over for us away from home , although Sat was a nightmare and after losing 3 games on the trot.
Here lies our problem, expectations are unrealistic , where a draw would be a good result
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Conker » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:35 pm

From what I’ve heard Menayese playing really well for Walsall so hopefully they will miss him.

Admittedly we will be lucky to have one decent defender on the pitch and neitjrr Quinn or Clarke.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:52 pm

It’s hard to say Hewitt is an upgrade on Menayese as it stands.
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Re: Negative posters.

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:58 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:It’s hard to say Hewitt is an upgrade on Menayese as it stands.


Menayese only played one game in a back four, he was solid and we had a clean sheet, then dropped, another strange decision
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