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Never been more confident

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Re: Never been more confident

Postby bellwhiff » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:22 pm

gazza1988 wrote:1 is a hell of alot closer to promotion than the other.

Why even bother ? No point. Ray Charles levels of vision from him.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Dan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:10 pm

gazza1988 wrote:1 is a hell of alot closer to promotion than the other.


Still the same outcome though. I could have 6 numbers on the lottery all one away from the 6 winners and I’ll still end up with nothing. People don’t remember the failures. That’s why he’s not a manager anymore. Because he’s a failure. There’s only 4 of you on here who think different.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby gazza1988 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:23 pm

Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:1 is a hell of alot closer to promotion than the other.


Still the same outcome though. I could have 6 numbers on the lottery all one away from the 6 winners and I’ll still end up with nothing. People don’t remember the failures. That’s why he’s not a manager anymore. Because he’s a failure. There’s only 4 of you on here who think different.


Not really, automatic promotion is the top prize (whether 1st, 2nd or 3rd the "result is the same", all 6 balls correct. Playoffs is 5 numbers and the bonus ball finishing 22nd is like getting a free lucky dip on the next draw. You'll take it but nothing to shout home about.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby gazza1988 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:24 pm

Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:1 is a hell of alot closer to promotion than the other.


Still the same outcome though. I could have 6 numbers on the lottery all one away from the 6 winners and I’ll still end up with nothing. People don’t remember the failures. That’s why he’s not a manager anymore. Because he’s a failure. There’s only 4 of you on here who think different.


Not really, automatic promotion is the top prize (whether 1st, 2nd or 3rd the "result is the same", all 6 balls correct. Playoffs is 5 numbers and the bonus ball finishing 22nd is like getting a free lucky dip on the next draw. You'll take it but nothing to shout home about.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Amber Andy » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:27 pm

Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:1 is a hell of alot closer to promotion than the other.


Still the same outcome though. I could have 6 numbers on the lottery all one away from the 6 winners and I’ll still end up with nothing. People don’t remember the failures. That’s why he’s not a manager anymore. Because he’s a failure. There’s only 4 of you on here who think different.
And since he was sacked we've been constantly near the bottom of the league. Not a great place to be. Would rather be near the top end, even if we are not promoted..
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Dan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:54 pm

bellwhiff wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:1 is a hell of alot closer to promotion than the other.

Why even bother ? No point. Ray Charles levels of vision from him.


Might be worth reading these threads. Even Gazza criticises his beloved DF :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35598&hilit=Mk+dons&start=0

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35612&hilit=Mk+dons
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby gazza1988 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:05 pm

I've not gone in depth but I LOVE sina stags team. Sweeney at left back and Will Tomlinson at left wing. I think the best part was he couldn't see the issue :lol:

Also I had the crazy idea back then to play your best players in their best positions. I'm like a visionary. I thought Mourinhio was crazy for calling himself "the special one" but I get it. :lol: sorry couldn't keep typing that with a straight face. :lol: I'm gonna get some stick for that one :lol:
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby James » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:25 am

In fairness, Flitcroft started the MK game with MacDonald RWB, that wasn't much better...
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby MTFCMusings » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:31 am

James wrote:In fairness, Flitcroft started the MK game with MacDonald RWB, that wasn't much better...


I still don't really see the issue with this and didn't at the time.

Ok, it didn't work, put think a hard working right winger who had played the majority of the previous two years playing as a box to box midfielder could play as a right wing back I don't think was much of a stretch. The role of a wing back is basically a hybrid of winger/box to box midfielder/full back roles. Macca playing at RWB had no bearing on us not drawing that game, IMO.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby bear 73 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:16 am

A good read .
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:48 am

MTFCMusings wrote:
James wrote:In fairness, Flitcroft started the MK game with MacDonald RWB, that wasn't much better...


I still don't really see the issue with this and didn't at the time.

Ok, it didn't work, put think a hard working right winger who had played the majority of the previous two years playing as a box to box midfielder could play as a right wing back I don't think was much of a stretch. The role of a wing back is basically a hybrid of winger/box to box midfielder/full back roles. Macca playing at RWB had no bearing on us not drawing that game, IMO.


What was Macca, I don't think anyone could work it out?

George Lapslie is a box to box midfielder who without even looking has scored more for us already than MacDonald?
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby MTFCMusings » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:50 am

Parkinsons Perm wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
James wrote:In fairness, Flitcroft started the MK game with MacDonald RWB, that wasn't much better...


I still don't really see the issue with this and didn't at the time.

Ok, it didn't work, put think a hard working right winger who had played the majority of the previous two years playing as a box to box midfielder could play as a right wing back I don't think was much of a stretch. The role of a wing back is basically a hybrid of winger/box to box midfielder/full back roles. Macca playing at RWB had no bearing on us not drawing that game, IMO.


What was Macca, I don't think anyone could work it out?

George Lapslie is a box to box midfielder who without even looking has scored more for us already than MacDonald?


Yes he has. Macca was a winger his whole career before Evans played him in central midfield against Coventry away where he put in a match winning performance. He was then crucial to a really good run of form when we were unbeaten in around 8-10 games from memory.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Amber Andy » Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:10 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
Parkinsons Perm wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
James wrote:In fairness, Flitcroft started the MK game with MacDonald RWB, that wasn't much better...


I still don't really see the issue with this and didn't at the time.

Ok, it didn't work, put think a hard working right winger who had played the majority of the previous two years playing as a box to box midfielder could play as a right wing back I don't think was much of a stretch. The role of a wing back is basically a hybrid of winger/box to box midfielder/full back roles. Macca playing at RWB had no bearing on us not drawing that game, IMO.


What was Macca, I don't think anyone could work it out?

George Lapslie is a box to box midfielder who without even looking has scored more for us already than MacDonald?


Yes he has. Macca was a winger his whole career before Evans played him in central midfield against Coventry away where he put in a match winning performance. He was then crucial to a really good run of form when we were unbeaten in around 8-10 games from memory.

SE also said at the time that Macca was a Championship standard player. He obviously rates him as he is currently playing in his Gillingham side.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby bear 73 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:12 pm

I think the problem for fans is we have to many good players, forwards Johnson, Hawkins, Oates, Bowery, Sinclaire, in the first 11, only 3 can play
Of coarse the 3 that play to some are the wrong 3.
Midfield Quinn, Maris, Cooke, Charsley, Lapslie, Stirk, again only 3 can play,, of coarse the 3 on the bench, should be playing,
This position we should pleased with , it means we have strength in forwards and midfield ,
But it is constructive to state we played the wrong players if the result goes against us, poor management, Lets forget about luck, mistakes punished, ref decisions, or the best team won on the day, or whether being Home or Away has a bearing on the result.
Our problem area is in defence, Perch, Rawson, Nartey, Forrester, Hewitt, should see us into Jan were we can resume our transfer targets.
Oh dear, Perch out for the season, Nartey out for at least 6-8 weeks, Forrester had a set back from his original 2 weeks unavailable.
We now run on bare bones Rawson, Hewitt, the season has turned on its head, now is the time to look at our resources and keep some momentum going.
We has fans can show our support and feel for our bad luck, and wish all our players a speedy recovery, or lets play the blame game we know someone is to blame.
Sharpie, Clough,,, forget, Hawkins, Johnson. Lapslie. Oates, Quinn, Bishop, Shelvey, Stirk, and all the good things going on within the club.
Lets forget Sharpe said it will take TIME, i see us being a couple of players off ,being a very good team, maybe Forrester and Nartey.
some of us do not realise that Perch is a big miss whether full back or central defender, confident certainly
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby garlic » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:04 pm

The defence would be less of a problem if he played our two specialist full backs ie Clarke at right back Burke left back. You then push Gordon and macca into midfield and heigh ho your flanks are covered and there should be fewer crosses coming into the box and what does come in should be of poorer quality.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Sedgwick » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:55 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
James wrote:In fairness, Flitcroft started the MK game with MacDonald RWB, that wasn't much better...


I still don't really see the issue with this and didn't at the time.

Ok, it didn't work, put think a hard working right winger who had played the majority of the previous two years playing as a box to box midfielder could play as a right wing back I don't think was much of a stretch. The role of a wing back is basically a hybrid of winger/box to box midfielder/full back roles. Macca playing at RWB had no bearing on us not drawing that game, IMO.


Too complex of an answer for some on here that. Stagsnet says a winger can only play on the wing! Simple as that

Haha I think you're spot on tbh.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby James » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:28 pm

I’m sorry, you can try and sell it to me all you like. In my opinion, it was a bad error to make. We had Gethin Jones on the bench, who’d been playing okay. You don’t chuck a player in a fairly specialised position (one I don’t think he’d ever played for us before in) on your biggest game in nearly 20 years.

Fwiw, I don’t think it made too much difference to the result as there were many other factors that day as to why we didn’t turn up, but still the point stands.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Conker » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:01 am

Promotion decider last game of the season then play somebody in a position he’s never played in before. Great idea. He got caught out loads in that first half positionally too but he got away with it.

It’s not difficult play players in the position they are actually trained to play in. When Flitcroft defended that it was made clear the bloke was off the rails.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby part time pete » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:47 am

Gethin Jones deserved to be dropped after his performance in the defeat at Oldham.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:49 am

part time pete wrote:Gethin Jones deserved to be dropped after his performance in the defeat at Oldham.


Only if a suitable replacement was available.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:16 am

Shocking defending by Gethin Jones at Oldham as the Stags went gung ho too soon with Gethin Jones charging up the pitch and leaving players unmarked. He was arguably partly responsible for all three goals. We also had Danny Rose being judged offside and his injury time equaliser being chalked off. Neal Bishop said the Stags should have kept things tighter after conceding a goal and kept it at 1-0 and then gone for it in the last 20 minutes.

Neal Bishop's form also dropped off at the end of the season and he failed to mark David Wheeler at the corner against Franchise FC along with Tyler Walker. I don't know who Will Tomlinson was supposed to be marking either. Poor defending at set pieces cost us yet again. Fine margins.

Great saves by Conrad Logan kept us in both games and in the play offs but some fans still put the blame on him for failing to get promoted by making a mistake against Col U at home in August!! :lol: They conveniently forget Neal Bishop and Tyler Walker getting stupidly sent off in games, Bishop's drop off in form at the end of the season, Walker and Bishop not marking David Wheeler at Franchise FC, Nicky Ajose missing a penalty at Port Vale, Jorge Grant going missing in action, Mal Benning getting caught up the pitch and not stopping crosses, defensive errors by Matt Preston, Ryan Sweeney and Krystian Pearce, Jordan Smith dropping clangers, Alex MacDonald failing to get a decent shot on target and taking terrible free kicks; and Tyler Walker, Danny Rose, Nicky Ajose, CJ Hamilton etc missing good chances.



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Re: Never been more confident

Postby gazza1988 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:18 am

Sedgwick wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
James wrote:In fairness, Flitcroft started the MK game with MacDonald RWB, that wasn't much better...


I still don't really see the issue with this and didn't at the time.

Ok, it didn't work, put think a hard working right winger who had played the majority of the previous two years playing as a box to box midfielder could play as a right wing back I don't think was much of a stretch. The role of a wing back is basically a hybrid of winger/box to box midfielder/full back roles. Macca playing at RWB had no bearing on us not drawing that game, IMO.


Too complex of an answer for some on here that. Stagsnet says a winger can only play on the wing! Simple as that

Haha I think you're spot on tbh.


Winger/wing back are similar. Winger/full back aren't similar. A wing back is a winger that is positioned further back (wing back) and expected to contribute more, defensively, than a traditional winger would. You've got a right midfield position too, I have erroneously interchanged this with winger in the past, this is a wide player who is about 50/50 split on attacking and defending duties. These look for an overlap from the full back behind him, who has more license to go forwards than a defensive full back who hardly ever leaves his own half.

I try not to get too deep and simplify my opinions with it or the older posters start crying about making football complicated and it's a simple game.



Answer me this, would you support Tyrese sinclair at RB instead of Gordon? Or did Keith Curle mess up not playing Wayne corden at left back?
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:32 am

gazza1988 wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
James wrote:In fairness, Flitcroft started the MK game with MacDonald RWB, that wasn't much better...


I still don't really see the issue with this and didn't at the time.

Ok, it didn't work, put think a hard working right winger who had played the majority of the previous two years playing as a box to box midfielder could play as a right wing back I don't think was much of a stretch. The role of a wing back is basically a hybrid of winger/box to box midfielder/full back roles. Macca playing at RWB had no bearing on us not drawing that game, IMO.


Too complex of an answer for some on here that. Stagsnet says a winger can only play on the wing! Simple as that

Haha I think you're spot on tbh.


Winger/wing back are similar. Winger/full back aren't similar. A wing back is a winger that is positioned further back (wing back) and expected to contribute more, defensively, than a traditional winger would. You've got a right midfield position too, I have erroneously interchanged this with winger in the past, this is a wide player who is about 50/50 split on attacking and defending duties. These look for an overlap from the full back behind him, who has more license to go forwards than a defensive full back who hardly ever leaves his own half.

I try not to get too deep and simplify my opinions with it or the older posters start crying about making football complicated and it's a simple game.



Answer me this, would you support Tyrese sinclair at RB instead of Gordon? Or did Keith Curle mess up not playing Wayne corden at left back?


Don't get too complex Gazza, you'll tie Sedgwick in knots, he's not too bright with on the pitch matters but thinks he's Don Howe :lol:
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Sedgwick » Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:07 pm

Parkinsons Perm wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
James wrote:In fairness, Flitcroft started the MK game with MacDonald RWB, that wasn't much better...


I still don't really see the issue with this and didn't at the time.

Ok, it didn't work, put think a hard working right winger who had played the majority of the previous two years playing as a box to box midfielder could play as a right wing back I don't think was much of a stretch. The role of a wing back is basically a hybrid of winger/box to box midfielder/full back roles. Macca playing at RWB had no bearing on us not drawing that game, IMO.


Too complex of an answer for some on here that. Stagsnet says a winger can only play on the wing! Simple as that

Haha I think you're spot on tbh.


Winger/wing back are similar. Winger/full back aren't similar. A wing back is a winger that is positioned further back (wing back) and expected to contribute more, defensively, than a traditional winger would. You've got a right midfield position too, I have erroneously interchanged this with winger in the past, this is a wide player who is about 50/50 split on attacking and defending duties. These look for an overlap from the full back behind him, who has more license to go forwards than a defensive full back who hardly ever leaves his own half.

I try not to get too deep and simplify my opinions with it or the older posters start crying about making football complicated and it's a simple game.



Answer me this, would you support Tyrese sinclair at RB instead of Gordon? Or did Keith Curle mess up not playing Wayne corden at left back?


Don't get too complex Gazza, you'll tie Sedgwick in knots, he's not too bright with on the pitch matters but thinks he's Don Howe :lol:


:lol: someones not too bright because they question your repetitive negative nonsense? oh dear..

Tied himself in Knotts with his "guide to football positions" book hes got... Its not as black and white as that anymore.

Theres no set definitions to tall these positions like you make out, its not Fifa where if you dare play a player slightly out of their set role a warning comes up :lol: , its purely down to the manager and their instructions, hence why its not impossible to work out why a winger can be asked to player further back as a full back or vice versa.

A winger can play as a wingback, and so can a "traditional" rightback, a righback can also pay as an out and out winger... its down to the gaffer to decide if the player has the attributes to carry out what they're expecting of them.

"A wing back is a winger that is positioned further back (wing back) and expected to contribute more, defensively, than a traditional winger would" Well if the manager expects them to yes, some may play them in a back 5, letting the other 4 shift over when said wing back goes forward, letting them not worry about having to get back. It all depends on what's being asked of them. Both wingbacks could be told to bomb forward, but also get back and defend favouring a back 5.

Theres a good Tifo video, obviously a much more articulate video essay, about how a some players can no longer can be tagged with one singular position throughout their career anymore, some will do because their limited but its naive to think it applies to all players, And how our ideas of what's expected for each position can be outdated and wrong... again based on what the manager wants.
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Re: Never been more confident

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:27 pm

I was bright enough to spell knots
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