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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Dave Wayne » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:54 pm

The problem with putting in standing is that is actually counter productive in terms of income. We are far from filling the current capacity, and building a new standing area isnt suddenly going to attract a large number of new fans. We would have to charge less to stand than to sit, so all that would happen is people would migrate from the seats to the terracing. If the price was £2 less and 500 people moved over, that is £1k per match in lost income. 23 league matches and a couple of cup matches and we have lost £25k in a season. It doesn't make any financial sense to spend money on demolition and rebuilding in order to reduce income.
I expect the Bishop Street side to be redeveloped at some point in the future, but not while we are playing to a half empty stadium in L2.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Rob » Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:18 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:The problem with putting in standing is that is actually counter productive in terms of income. We are far from filling the current capacity, and building a new standing area isnt suddenly going to attract a large number of new fans. We would have to charge less to stand than to sit, so all that would happen is people would migrate from the seats to the terracing. If the price was £2 less and 500 people moved over, that is £1k per match in lost income. 23 league matches and a couple of cup matches and we have lost £25k in a season. It doesn't make any financial sense to spend money on demolition and rebuilding in order to reduce income.
I expect the Bishop Street side to be redeveloped at some point in the future, but not while we are playing to a half empty stadium in L2.


When building a new ground almost all clubs build way above the normal attendances so they can maximise revenue for the bigger games or games that attract higher away followings. Even Haslam built a ground for 9,200 fans when our average attendance is generally between 2.5 and 5k. At the moment our ground can accommodate a maximum of 1,800 away supporters, now given where County and Direites are right now it isn't likely we will need more than that many times this season, but if we go up we most certainly will and therefore will be losing revenue, potentially 25k for the big games. So aside from the aesthetics, it does make sense to renovate that side of the ground right now and not wait until next season when, if we do go up, we would attract bigger gates with much larger away attendances. If your argument is to wait until the ground is full every game then the club will be losing not tens of thousands but hundreds of thousands a season. Lincoln looked at expanding their ground a couple of seasons ago, they didn't and ended up selling out almost every week prior to lockdown, it is estimated to have cost them approx 500k in lost revenue had they been able to accommodate all who wanted to attend. They still have not started work at Sincil Bank so are certain to continue to lose potential revenue this season, though they plan on extending the Stacey West (away end) by 1500 in time for the start of 22/23 season.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/spor ... st-5592852

As for the seating argument, what the club have done with the QLE could easily be replicated in the Bishop if they decide to terrace it, so they charge the same but offer a discount scheme.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Dave Wayne » Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:49 pm

Fair comment Rob, but most of the people asking for terracing are talking home fans, not away fans.
If the plan was to demolish the current stand and replace with away terracing then yes I would agree with that.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Rob » Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:50 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:Fair comment Rob, but most of the people asking for terracing are talking home fans, not away fans.
If the plan was to demolish the current stand and replace with away terracing then yes I would agree with that.


I would have thought any sensible plan would involve the ability for it to house away fans when required but predominantly the stand would be for home fans. If I'm honest I'm not too bothered if it is terrace or seats, but I am sick of looking at it :lol:
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Torrystag » Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:59 pm

Simple solution ,demolish the wooden structure ,when its down to base errect a temporary marquee type roof covering most of bishop street ,but with a proviso that it can only be used for sold out games ,or for away fans overspill
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:05 pm

I still think the flexibility of the Ferco system gives the best of both worlds. I can see the argument that fans would move from the seating to the standing option but feel we would attract a larger proportion of younger fans making the club more sustainable in the long run.

There is nothing to replace the joy of being a part of the singing contingent in your younger years and that experience is sadly lacking in the current set up. By giving that opportunity we would be building fans for life whilst at the same time giving relief to those who don’t like being near to the choir. Yes it would be cheaper to make it standing only but you would still have to install barriers so the difference would not be so great.

The alternative is to do nothing which is no solution at all, so develop or stagnate. The real question is the size of the development and until the houses have gone there is no way a large stand can go up.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:08 pm

Torrystag wrote:Simple solution ,demolish the wooden structure ,when its down to base errect a temporary marquee type roof covering most of bishop street ,but with a proviso that it can only be used for sold out games ,or for away fans overspill


Unfortunately though Torry the terracing currently there is not of a high enough standard to do that. You would have to renew it all and install crush barriers of some type so big outlay with little return if you only use it when capacity is reached.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Vice President » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:20 pm

Torrystag wrote:Simple solution ,demolish the wooden structure ,when its down to base errect a temporary marquee type roof covering most of bishop street ,but with a proviso that it can only be used for sold out games ,or for away fans overspill


Good idea!
And to really control costs/income - make it standing and charge the same as a seat.
What we have saved on Maynard's & Cook's wages would go some way to paying for a temporary low budget solution! :lol:
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Vice President » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:21 pm

1966Stag wrote:
Vice President wrote:
Indeed! It was ridiculous that when they redeveloped Field Mill, they built it around the Bishop st. stand, with hardly any future development potential on that side. As others have mentioned before - why on earth didn't they build the 3 new stands a few yards to the west? :roll:
It can't have been a cost cutting exercise, as the land was already part of the 'estate' and it wouldn't have reduced any significant income potential. It was just plain stupidity/short-sightedness. (And all that talk about buying some of the houses on Bishop st. was ludicrous - it wouldn't/shouldn't have been necessary if they had built the stands in the 'right' place).


There is a sewer running down the back of the west stand which would need to be moved (at the developers cost) if they had moved the stand back. Moving the sewer would probably have cost more than buying properties on bishop street, it was simple cost cutting.


Ahh! I didn't know that - thanks for the info.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Vice President » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:27 pm

STAGS FOR LIFE wrote::) I think it should be all standing , but a stand like this with amber and blue seats would be good :)

Image


This would be fine . I wonder how much this would cost? Perhaps Steve Hymas' building contractors could help build this at 'mates rates' and he could have the stand named after him. :)
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Torrystag » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:30 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Torrystag wrote:Simple solution ,demolish the wooden structure ,when its down to base errect a temporary marquee type roof covering most of bishop street ,but with a proviso that it can only be used for sold out games ,or for away fans overspill


Unfortunately though Torry the terracing currently there is not of a high enough standard to do that. You would have to renew it all and install crush barriers of some type so big outlay with little return if you only use it when capacity is reached.

But if you think ahead ,we would only be paying for part of the stand ,if and when we need it the basic structure will already be in place
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:37 pm

Torrystag wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Torrystag wrote:Simple solution ,demolish the wooden structure ,when its down to base errect a temporary marquee type roof covering most of bishop street ,but with a proviso that it can only be used for sold out games ,or for away fans overspill


Unfortunately though Torry the terracing currently there is not of a high enough standard to do that. You would have to renew it all and install crush barriers of some type so big outlay with little return if you only use it when capacity is reached.

But if you think ahead ,we would only be paying for part of the stand ,if and when we need it the basic structure will already be in place


If it fit the future plan and was suitable, yes. I think it more likely it would have to be ripped up though.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Torrystag » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:47 pm

If only haslam had of left a gas fire in there
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby victor A block » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:51 pm

It needs demolishing. It kills atmosphere and looks an eyesore. There are loads of League 2 grounds whose four stands are nothing on our 3 renovated ones, but look better grounds because they have 4.
There are certainly options to get a payback, either standing, increased capacity for large away followings or even hospitality with individual boxes like Burton.
It's JR's money of course to do as he wishes, but please don't waste it on another lame duck scoreboard.
(& could the stadium manager sort out the audio for next week. It sounded like Alan Wilson was talking through a cushion)
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Torrystag » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:31 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Torrystag wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Torrystag wrote:Simple solution ,demolish the wooden structure ,when its down to base errect a temporary marquee type roof covering most of bishop street ,but with a proviso that it can only be used for sold out games ,or for away fans overspill


Unfortunately though Torry the terracing currently there is not of a high enough standard to do that. You would have to renew it all and install crush barriers of some type so big outlay with little return if you only use it when capacity is reached.

But if you think ahead ,we would only be paying for part of the stand ,if and when we need it the basic structure will already be in place

Thats what im saying spbs getbthe basic infrastucture in ie terracing then cover with a marquee type roof ,works well for enough clubs
If it fit the future plan and was suitable, yes. I think it more likely it would have to be ripped up though.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby chip63 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:46 pm

Vice President wrote:
STAGS FOR LIFE wrote::) I think it should be all standing , but a stand like this with amber and blue seats would be good :)



This would be fine . I wonder how much this would cost? Perhaps Steve Hymas' building contractors could help build this at 'mates rates' and he could have the stand named after him. :)


As much as I admire and Respect what Steve as done for the stags and continues to do so, I wouldn't want a stand named after him, maybe a certain door that was allegedly kicked in would be OK. :D
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:05 pm

Rob wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:The problem with putting in standing is that is actually counter productive in terms of income. We are far from filling the current capacity, and building a new standing area isnt suddenly going to attract a large number of new fans. We would have to charge less to stand than to sit, so all that would happen is people would migrate from the seats to the terracing. If the price was £2 less and 500 people moved over, that is £1k per match in lost income. 23 league matches and a couple of cup matches and we have lost £25k in a season. It doesn't make any financial sense to spend money on demolition and rebuilding in order to reduce income.
I expect the Bishop Street side to be redeveloped at some point in the future, but not while we are playing to a half empty stadium in L2.


When building a new ground almost all clubs build way above the normal attendances so they can maximise revenue for the bigger games or games that attract higher away followings. Even Haslam built a ground for 9,200 fans when our average attendance is generally between 2.5 and 5k. At the moment our ground can accommodate a maximum of 1,800 away supporters, now given where County and Direites are right now it isn't likely we will need more than that many times this season, but if we go up we most certainly will and therefore will be losing revenue, potentially 25k for the big games. So aside from the aesthetics, it does make sense to renovate that side of the ground right now and not wait until next season when, if we do go up, we would attract bigger gates with much larger away attendances. If your argument is to wait until the ground is full every game then the club will be losing not tens of thousands but hundreds of thousands a season. Lincoln looked at expanding their ground a couple of seasons ago, they didn't and ended up selling out almost every week prior to lockdown, it is estimated to have cost them approx 500k in lost revenue had they been able to accommodate all who wanted to attend. They still have not started work at Sincil Bank so are certain to continue to lose potential revenue this season, though they plan on extending the Stacey West (away end) by 1500 in time for the start of 22/23 season.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/spor ... st-5592852

As for the seating argument, what the club have done with the QLE could easily be replicated in the Bishop if they decide to terrace it, so they charge the same but offer a discount scheme.


Precisely. You can't respond to the situation and wait for it to be absolutely required. Pre empt it and prepare for it.

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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Big yella » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:06 pm

Vice President wrote:
The One wrote:
Vice President wrote:
chip63 wrote:How many seats would we get in there though? I can't remember its capacity when it was open.
We can't go higher or further back because of bishop street, it would need emergency exits somewhere for each block.
We'd get a really good grant if it was for disabled fans only.


I think the club comissioned some architect drawings for a new stand a couple of years ago - has anyone seen them/can post them?

If the houses remain in place, the stand might be able to have up to 10 rows max (perhaps with moving the pitch over towards the west stand by a couple of yards). I've seen a few other similarly sized stands elsewhere (Hartlepool? and some other grounds). I think Burton's stand only has about 10 rows, but it has exec boxes at the back and a tall roof making it look bigger.
Crawley have some strange, almost temporary-like structure on one side - clearly a cheaper option, but it does the job.
Even a small stand with 8-10 rows would dramatically improve the look of the ground.


But you need to factor in toilet, carering facilities and space is in short supply.


Indeed! It was ridiculous that when they redeveloped Field Mill, they built it around the Bishop st. stand, with hardly any future development potential on that side. As others have mentioned before - why on earth didn't they build the 3 new stands a few yards to the west? :roll:
It can't have been a cost cutting exercise, as the land was already part of the 'estate' and it wouldn't have reduced any significant income potential. It was just plain stupidity/short-sightedness. (And all that talk about buying some of the houses on Bishop st. was ludicrous - it wouldn't/shouldn't have been necessary if they had built the stands in the 'right' place).


It mostly certainly was a cost cutting exercise as Hasaloan wouldn’t pay to move the public footpath that runs through the concourse outside the IG Stand.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Spiritater » Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:15 am

Vice President wrote:
STAGS FOR LIFE wrote::) I think it should be all standing , but a stand like this with amber and blue seats would be good :)

Image


This would be fine . I wonder how much this would cost? Perhaps Steve Hymas' building contractors could help build this at 'mates rates' and he could have the stand named after him. :)

It's very non league isn't it
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Sneag » Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:28 am

Spiritater wrote:
Vice President wrote:
STAGS FOR LIFE wrote::) I think it should be all standing , but a stand like this with amber and blue seats would be good :)

Image


This would be fine . I wonder how much this would cost? Perhaps Steve Hymas' building contractors could help build this at 'mates rates' and he could have the stand named after him. :)

It's very non league isn't it


Not as non league as the current pile of rubble, with its 2 broken scoreboards & shanty town TV gantry.
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby STAGS FOR LIFE » Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:32 am

:lol: :lol: another 2999 and a shelter please :D Jobs a goodun :lol:

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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:42 am

STAGS FOR LIFE wrote::lol: :lol: another 2999 and a shelter please :D Jobs a goodun :lol:




Hope that’s not the new centre half :D
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:45 am

chip63 wrote:
Vice President wrote:
STAGS FOR LIFE wrote::) I think it should be all standing , but a stand like this with amber and blue seats would be good :)



This would be fine . I wonder how much this would cost? Perhaps Steve Hymas' building contractors could help build this at 'mates rates' and he could have the stand named after him. :)


As much as I admire and Respect what Steve as done for the stags and continues to do so, I wouldn't want a stand named after him, maybe a certain door that was allegedly kicked in would be OK. :D


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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby chip63 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:49 am

gazza1988 wrote:
chip63 wrote:
Vice President wrote:
STAGS FOR LIFE wrote::) I think it should be all standing , but a stand like this with amber and blue seats would be good :)



This would be fine . I wonder how much this would cost? Perhaps Steve Hymas' building contractors could help build this at 'mates rates' and he could have the stand named after him. :)


As much as I admire and Respect what Steve as done for the stags and continues to do so, I wouldn't want a stand named after him, maybe a certain door that was allegedly kicked in would be OK. :D


The training ground has his name on it.


Jesus,Mary,Joseph and the Wee Donkey, so he was H all along. :D
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Re: New scoreboard?

Postby Spiritater » Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:24 pm

Sneag wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
Vice President wrote:
STAGS FOR LIFE wrote::) I think it should be all standing , but a stand like this with amber and blue seats would be good :)

Image


This would be fine . I wonder how much this would cost? Perhaps Steve Hymas' building contractors could help build this at 'mates rates' and he could have the stand named after him. :)

It's very non league isn't it


Not as non league as the current pile of rubble, with its 2 broken scoreboards & shanty town TV gantry.

If somat's built then it has to be something befitting the rest if t'stadium for years to come, that isn't.
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