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Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:51 am

Right, kellan has not played "all his career" at right back.

there's his signing interview, for us, skip to 14 seconds and it pops up with his name with "right wing back/right midfielder"

Skip to 1minute and stevo asks him where he sees himself playing. Guess what he says! As a winger.

Looks like it's not just a grumpy stags fan but kellan himself. On this page https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kellan- ... ler/370138 it lists where he's played (it's not perfect there are games with missing positions and it's unclear what they count right wing back as)

I made my concerns clear last season during our good run. If we had an injury crisis in defence then by all means I'd have Kellan in there. The issue Kellan has is Clough doesn't play with wingers Clough's teams are narrow. The width is provided by the attacking full backs. This is all well and good when attacking both him and McLaughlin (is it "lin" or "lan" at the end of his name?) are in their element but a sustained period of pressure where they are forced to stay back is when we are more likely to make an error. McLaughlan (hedging my bets on that:D) is less prone because of his experience, he's played left midfield and central midfield before so he's gained defensive experience.

I hope Clough has got Kellan working on the defensive side of his game if he is going to be first choice.

In Clough's formation I reckon Gordon could do a more effective job with on the right of the narrow diamond or at the top of it behind the forwards. If he prefers the 4-3-3 with inside forwards then right of the front 3. If he's to play right back then he'd fare better in the narrow diamond than 4-3-3 because he'd have support from the player on the right of the diamond whereas he'd have no support from the forward playing on the right of a 4-3-3.

Thats my take anyway. Not saying I'm a tactical mastermind or Clough is wrong or anything just my opinion.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Rob » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:38 am

Well, you are saying Clough is wrong, aren't you?

Seems to me Clough likes him there as he provides width in attack, as he did very well yesterday. The weakness of this is he can get caught forwards and also given we played quite a narrow 3 he was often two on one down his side. The criticism of him was over the top last season, looks like that will carry on from one or two, which is going to achieve precisely nothing.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Dan » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:41 am

Fourth division player has shortcomings and weaknesses. Who’s have thunk it?! :?
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby pemill » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:17 am

Rob wrote:Well, you are saying Clough is wrong, aren't you?

Seems to me Clough likes him there as he provides width in attack, as he did very well yesterday. The weakness of this is he can get caught forwards and also given we played quite a narrow 3 he was often two on one down his side. The criticism of him was over the top last season, looks like that will carry on from one or two, which is going to achieve precisely nothing.


We saw this many times last season with Mal Benning and he's a seasoned professional, it's part and parcel of that syatem.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Rob » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:25 am

Yes it is, clearly playing that way exposes the full backs but on the plus side it does mean we are on the front foot, it's positive. McLaughlin wasn't as exposed yesterday because he didn't get forward anywhere near as much as Gordon. That's probably due to age, pace and fitness. I do think Ollie Clarke could have covered for him a little better, but it is pre-season and I am sure that will improve.

Gordon is a fine young footballer with a bright future.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:29 am

Rob wrote:Well, you are saying Clough is wrong, aren't you?

Seems to me Clough likes him there as he provides width in attack, as he did very well yesterday. The weakness of this is he can get caught forwards and also given we played quite a narrow 3 he was often two on one down his side. The criticism of him was over the top last season, looks like that will carry on from one or two, which is going to achieve precisely nothing.


I’m sorry if an opinion on a discussion forum upsets you. I don’t think it’s about the system but more about the player and his spatial awareness/positional sense. You are correct that it won’t make any difference but that is the same as any discussion point raised on here.

You have your opinion and I have mine. We will see who is correct when/if we continue to concede goals from our right flank. In the meantime have a read of Martin’s match report and then tell me I’m the only one who thinks the same.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:34 am

Rob wrote:Yes it is, clearly playing that way exposes the full backs but on the plus side it does mean we are on the front foot, it's positive. McLaughlin wasn't as exposed yesterday because he didn't get forward anywhere near as much as Gordon. That's probably due to age, pace and fitness. I do think Ollie Clarke could have covered for him a little better, but it is pre-season and I am sure that will improve.

Gordon is a fine young footballer with a bright future.


McLaughlin did get forward as much, he was just better getting back. His link up play with Quinn was excellent and a main stay of our best attacks. Additionally Hull obviously thought they could exploit him by balls over his head into the space behind. They were wrong as he managed to get a head on every one. That was down to his spatial awareness and positional sense which are of a good standard. They should have tried it on the other side as I’m sure they would have had more luck.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Rob » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:38 am

No way did McLaughlin get forward as much as Gordon, that's just not true. Secondly the brilliant Quinn did a much better job covering than Clarke did. Maybe try watching the game without your obvious bias against one of own players?
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:50 am

Rob wrote:No way did McLaughlin get forward as much as Gordon, that's just not true. Secondly the brilliant Quinn did a much better job covering than Clarke did. Maybe try watching the game without your obvious bias against one of own players?


I think I maybe watch a bit closer than you think. It appears you just follow the ball without looking at the wider picture of runs etc. I also watch where the players are when they haven’t got the ball and maybe that’s why Gordon worries me so much. I’m just pleased opposition managers don’t have an elevated view of the game or we would have a lot more traffic down the right.

In respect of bias to our own players, I support them all while they are on the pitch but that doesn’t mean I have to be blind to their shortcomings and overstate their capabilities. Gordon is no longer a young prospect and should have improved more at this stage. Maybe he would have if played as a forward/midfielder but he hasn’t been so we can only judge him in his current position and he’s not improving there. I want the best for my team if we are to get the success the Radfords and supporters deserve and feel that is more likely with Kellan away from the right back position. You don’t fine. If we are looking to develop players rather than achieve our goals then James Clarke is a much better long term prospect at right back.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:02 pm

Rob wrote:Well, you are saying Clough is wrong, aren't you?

Seems to me Clough likes him there as he provides width in attack, as he did very well yesterday. The weakness of this is he can get caught forwards and also given we played quite a narrow 3 he was often two on one down his side. The criticism of him was over the top last season, looks like that will carry on from one or two, which is going to achieve precisely nothing.


And you're saying Clough is always right, aren't you?


Yes he does provide width I've said that. It's defensively I have reservations. I'm aware league 2 footballers shortcomings but it's all about limiting those shortcomings from being exploited. Tell you what I'll play right back, was keeper but sod it I'll play right back I'm 33, overweight, a smoker and my knees sound like a bag of marbles. Should be ok in league 2 because shortcomings, no matter how many, are a-ok.

Like I said as a backup option he's fine at right back, as first option we've got issues.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:06 pm

Sounds like a good performance, was at a wedding all day yesterday so was ‘out of the loop’.

Will there be any highlights from the game available?
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby lifestags » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:08 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:Sounds like a good performance, was at a wedding all day yesterday so was ‘out of the loop’.

Will there be any highlights from the game available?



Full match on I follow.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Martin Shaw » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:01 pm

You can now watch the full match of Mansfield's win at Hull City yesterday on iFollow Stags.

Go to latest videos, and choose First half: Hull 1-2 Stags.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby pemill » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:24 pm

So, Reid has departed and Kellan Gordon is the new bad boy, we've always got to have one - so Mansfield Town.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:29 pm

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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:32 pm

pemill wrote:So, Reid has departed and Kellan Gordon is the new bad boy, we've always got to have one - so Mansfield Town.



I was one of the people who mentioned Gordon getting done by their winger. That was it, I'm not making him a bloody 'bad boy'. It was an observation, same as if any player made a mistake.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Martin Shaw » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:35 pm

Video highlights, Hull City 1-2 Mansfield

You can watch the full game on iFollow Stags

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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Rob » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:59 pm

pemill wrote:So, Reid has departed and Kellan Gordon is the new bad boy, we've always got to have one - so Mansfield Town.


Its sad that some feel the need to have a "player to kick" and can only begin to imagine the delight they'll get when, like all players, he makes a mistake. They couldn't even wait for the season to start :roll:
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Vice President » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:00 pm

I agree with Sandy (and many others on here). I said it last season - Gordon has very poor defensive positional sense and is a massive liability at right back. It also resulted in Rawson having to cover him and being caught out of position many times, costing us goals. That is why Clough dropped him towards the end of last season - and the defence was stronger for it.

I'm disappointed if he is now being considered again as the number one choice right back. (Perch & Clarke are far better in that position). I believe that Gordon could cost us a lot of goals if he plays at right back. That doesn't mean that I think Cloughie doesn't know what he's doing, nor does it mean that Gordon can't be a decent footballer (more likely in an attacking, rather than in a defensive position). Moreover that shouldn't make him (or any of our players a "boo boy"). It is simply an opinion - and football is all about opinions.
Last edited by Vice President on Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby bellwhiff » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:06 pm

Rob wrote:
pemill wrote:So, Reid has departed and Kellan Gordon is the new bad boy, we've always got to have one - so Mansfield Town.


Its sad that some feel the need to have a "player to kick" and can only begin to imagine the delight they'll get when, like all players, he makes a mistake. They couldn't even wait for the season to start :roll:


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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Rob » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:11 pm

I think they expect a Div 4 player to be perfect. Gordon is being asked to perform a very difficult role to allow the side attacking width whilst keeping 3 in the middle. He will, by default, be caught out of position. We all know he's better going forwards so some of us are prepared to cut him some slack, others are not. This "I can't believe Clough is playing Gordon but I'm not criticising Clough" is clearly contradictory.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby yorkshire stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:25 pm

taking everything into account our defence imo still isn’t strong enough & will be our problem this season if not strengthened
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:41 pm

I don't expect him to be perfect. I do expect a league 2 right back to be able to function as a good right back at league 2 level consistently for our ambitions. We all have off days, I can take off days. Gordon played right back for the second half of last season.

Remind me again why nobody is allowed to disagree with the manager? It's all extremes on here. Criticise a wingers capabilities at right back and suddenly everyone thinks I think he must be world class at it.

Look as a winger(with a back 4)/wing back (with a back 3) I think he's good at league 2 level. As a full back (in a back 4) I think he's 3rd choice. If we ar win the ascendancy then he's good at league 2 level but a sustained period of pressure (defending a lead for example then he's a liability.

That's my opinion and unless Clough has had him working on his defensive side then it will be more of the same next season.

Answer me this. Before Cox was appointed manager a higher division manager was interviewed and thought Louis Briscoe was a right back. Had that happened would you have gone along with it? Did you see briscoe as a right back?

At the end of the day I have an opinion which you can disagree with, and say why. So far though all I've seen is Clough is a Clough so he's infallible and we can't sign Walker so literally any player will do there.

So why not give a reason why you feel Gordon should be first choice right back instead of the Clough is amazing and infallible. It's looking a bit cult like. I'd wager that if you asked Clough if he ever got anything wrong in management he'd tell you he has.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Billy the fish » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:46 pm

Does make me wonder how many of the self professed experts on here have actually played the game ?? Quite a few I presume where last pick at there represented school a few years back for some granted . Surely the 5 or 6 top posters on this message board must have played professionally at some point ?? Ermm
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby bellwhiff » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:50 pm

Billy the fish wrote:Does make me wonder how many of the self professed experts on here have actually played the game ?? Quite a few I presume where last pick at there represented school a few years back for some granted . Surely the 5 or 6 top posters on this message board must have played professionally at some point ?? Ermm

I’m not sure of your logic. Are you saying that you can only have an opinion if you’ve played. How does that work with people like Mourinho?

Seems that everyone has a political opinion but no one on here has been an MP so how does that work ?

PS I played to a decent level and I’ve got a goal against a league team in my locker but that’s irrelevant.
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