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Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:24 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:I’m not convinced he will ever be league 2 or above, standard. It’s a good move for him and MTFC. I hope the youngster proves me wrong.


Many would argue there isn't much difference between the top 6 in the National League and bottom half of League 2. Indeed, sides promoted from the National League have traditionally done very well in League 2, except us of course :lol:
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:41 pm

Rob wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:I’m not convinced he will ever be league 2 or above, standard. It’s a good move for him and MTFC. I hope the youngster proves me wrong.


Many would argue there isn't much difference between the top 6 in the National League and bottom half of League 2. Indeed, sides promoted from the National League have traditionally done very well in League 2, except us of course :lol:

You’re right, there isn’t, but Smith never seemed quite good enough at this level. I hope he does well there.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby AlanStag » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:37 pm

MTFCMAD wrote:
Rob wrote:
pemill wrote:Good Luck to Alistair.
Hopefully at a club where the fans are prepared to let him develop and not expect him to play like David Beckham in his prime every single minute of the day.
A lot of our fans have an appalling track record in regards to our talented young players, you only have to read this thread to get a sense of it. How on earth can some folk expect young lads to drop into the first team and play at a consistently high level from the off is beyond me, one bad touch, one bad game or even a spell in the game where aren't effective damns them for life.


Yep completely agree, I think he will be another Gregory and will get back into the league very soon. Good luck to him but keep this thread as I suspect in the not too distant future we may wish we'd kept him.



If this does happen it will be the same fans who have said hes wasnt good enough for us and we should release him who moan that we should of kept him and "its another one through the net"

The comments from Alty are overwhelmingly positive and I have a feeling we've let one slip. You look at the stats he has 1 league start for us and is 20 years old, I think we expected too much too soon. Time will tell but I wish him all the best.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby yorkshire stag » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:39 pm

AlanStag wrote:
MTFCMAD wrote:
Rob wrote:
pemill wrote:Good Luck to Alistair.
Hopefully at a club where the fans are prepared to let him develop and not expect him to play like David Beckham in his prime every single minute of the day.
A lot of our fans have an appalling track record in regards to our talented young players, you only have to read this thread to get a sense of it. How on earth can some folk expect young lads to drop into the first team and play at a consistently high level from the off is beyond me, one bad touch, one bad game or even a spell in the game where aren't effective damns them for life.


Yep completely agree, I think he will be another Gregory and will get back into the league very soon. Good luck to him but keep this thread as I suspect in the not too distant future we may wish we'd kept him.



If this does happen it will be the same fans who have said hes wasnt good enough for us and we should release him who moan that we should of kept him and "its another one through the net"

The comments from Alty are overwhelmingly positive and I have a feeling we've let one slip. You look at the stats he has 1 league start for us and is 20 years old, I think we expected too much too soon. Time will tell but I wish him all the best.



i don’t feel we have let one slip!, found his level chuffed for him however Stevie G in two yrs he int
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:43 pm

Time will tell mate, I thought he had something about him and despite what Darren says, 20 is young :lol:
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby yellowstagsfan » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:55 pm

Doesn't help him in the fact that we've had so many managerial changes during his time here
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby yorkshire stag » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:58 pm

Rob wrote:Time will tell mate, I thought he had something about him and despite what Darren says, 20 is young :lol:


very true Roberto my owd mate, missed out pre season chats this season
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby MTFCMusings » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:07 pm

Rob wrote:Time will tell mate, I thought he had something about him and despite what Darren says, 20 is young :lol:


He’s 21, 22 this year.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:09 pm

Rob wrote:Time will tell mate, I thought he had something about him and despite what Darren says, 20 is young :lol:


Except he’s 22 in May. Still not a great age but should be closer to the finished article by now. He is nowhere near good enough to displace any of our current midfield so it’s right to let him strike out in another direction.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:56 pm

yellowstagsfan wrote:Doesn't help him in the fact that we've had so many managerial changes during his time here

You could be right.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Dan » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:28 am

He’ll be another Sam Clucas you wait and see.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Captain Cunno » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:12 am

No he wont.
Step away from the tipex Dan.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:19 am

All the best to Alastair. This was the best option for him really because he wasn't getting in our first team and when he did he didn't look up to pace.

Imagine he'll get to league two again eventually in a few years time
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:19 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Rob wrote:Time will tell mate, I thought he had something about him and despite what Darren says, 20 is young :lol:


Except he’s 22 in May. Still not a great age but should be closer to the finished article by now. He is nowhere near good enough to displace any of our current midfield so it’s right to let him strike out in another direction.


So he's 21, well past it, good grief! As I say, time will tell, but he was never given a decent run in our side, now being given a decent run in a top 5 National League side he is showing his true potential. I do think for him it is the right thing to do, sadly we only pay lip service to bringing on our own talent, indeed who was the last first team regular that came through our youth system?
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Kernow » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:25 pm

Time the investment in the Academy was bearing fruit. Disappointing really.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:26 pm

Rob wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Rob wrote:Time will tell mate, I thought he had something about him and despite what Darren says, 20 is young :lol:


Except he’s 22 in May. Still not a great age but should be closer to the finished article by now. He is nowhere near good enough to displace any of our current midfield so it’s right to let him strike out in another direction.


So he's 21, well past it, good grief! As I say, time will tell, but he was never given a decent run in our side, now being given a decent run in a top 5 National League side he is showing his true potential. I do think for him it is the right thing to do, sadly we only pay lip service to bringing on our own talent, indeed who was the last first team regular that came through our youth system?


Tom Naylor?
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:33 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
Rob wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Rob wrote:Time will tell mate, I thought he had something about him and despite what Darren says, 20 is young :lol:


Except he’s 22 in May. Still not a great age but should be closer to the finished article by now. He is nowhere near good enough to displace any of our current midfield so it’s right to let him strike out in another direction.


So he's 21, well past it, good grief! As I say, time will tell, but he was never given a decent run in our side, now being given a decent run in a top 5 National League side he is showing his true potential. I do think for him it is the right thing to do, sadly we only pay lip service to bringing on our own talent, indeed who was the last first team regular that came through our youth system?


Tom Naylor?


I think he only played 20 odd games, we've certainly not produced what we did 20 years ago when our entire youth set up cost 50p and a bag of wurthers.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Johan » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:45 pm

Rob wrote:So he's 21, well past it, good grief! As I say, time will tell, but he was never given a decent run in our side, now being given a decent run in a top 5 National League side he is showing his true potential. I do think for him it is the right thing to do, sadly we only pay lip service to bringing on our own talent, indeed who was the last first team regular that came through our youth system?

It’s increasingly difficult when the big clubs hoover up all the talent from a young age, then stockpile them in Under 23 teams.

Didn’t we have several young lads who were offered deals in the summer and then quietly left the club after the salary cap was announced?

I seem to remember all players aged 21 and over count towards the League Two wage limit, and therefore must be first team ready from that age or risk getting shown the door. Like Smith has.

The deck is stacked against clubs in lower divisions.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby kevin kents tasce » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:50 pm

Naylor might not have amassed lots of games for us, but he’s made a really good career for himself.

I have said it a few times on here, but the idea of clubs like ours producing home grown talent is a pipe dream.

The big difference between now and yesteryear is that there are too many kids going into academy football with bigger clubs.

There could always be an exception, but we are more likely to find a few gems by picking up the premier league and Championship cast offs and giving them game time, than trying to bring our own through.

Our kids play don’t play at a high enough academy level to transition into first team football.

Charsley came through at Everton. He is only a couple of years older than Smith, but a much better player.

Same as Kellen Gordon, Aiden Stone and George Lapslie, who are all similar age to Smith and are miles ahead of him. I would add James Clarke to the list too, albeit he isn’t quite on the level of the others mentioned.

People keep going on about Knowles, who looks like he could do something. Didn’t we pick him up from Forest?
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby daddycool » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:21 pm

I with the ,he will do well brigade
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:25 pm

Rob wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Rob wrote:Time will tell mate, I thought he had something about him and despite what Darren says, 20 is young :lol:


Except he’s 22 in May. Still not a great age but should be closer to the finished article by now. He is nowhere near good enough to displace any of our current midfield so it’s right to let him strike out in another direction.


So he's 21, well past it, good grief! As I say, time will tell, but he was never given a decent run in our side, now being given a decent run in a top 5 National League side he is showing his true potential. I do think for him it is the right thing to do, sadly we only pay lip service to bringing on our own talent, indeed who was the last first team regular that came through our youth system?


And who would you drop to give him the experience to possibly make it at league 2 level?

Football is a cut throat business and it is a far better scenario for Alister to allow him to go and make some sort of career for himself. We haven’t asked for a fee and it’s the best thing the club could have done for the lad as he now has the chance to bounce back. Keep him and you are effectively ending his career before it’s begun.

There is no magic wand to wave over the youth players and they are either good enough or not. Unfortunately Alistair is not good enough for our team at this point in time and that is the bottom line. Life is about being in the right place at the right time and it just hasn’t worked for Alistair as the team has never been in a position to carry him while he learns his trade.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:43 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Rob wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Rob wrote:Time will tell mate, I thought he had something about him and despite what Darren says, 20 is young :lol:


Except he’s 22 in May. Still not a great age but should be closer to the finished article by now. He is nowhere near good enough to displace any of our current midfield so it’s right to let him strike out in another direction.


So he's 21, well past it, good grief! As I say, time will tell, but he was never given a decent run in our side, now being given a decent run in a top 5 National League side he is showing his true potential. I do think for him it is the right thing to do, sadly we only pay lip service to bringing on our own talent, indeed who was the last first team regular that came through our youth system?


And who would you drop to give him the experience to possibly make it at league 2 level?

Football is a cut throat business and it is a far better scenario for Alister to allow him to go and make some sort of career for himself. We haven’t asked for a fee and it’s the best thing the club could have done for the lad as he now has the chance to bounce back. Keep him and you are effectively ending his career before it’s begun.

There is no magic wand to wave over the youth players and they are either good enough or not. Unfortunately Alistair is not good enough for our team at this point in time and that is the bottom line. Life is about being in the right place at the right time and it just hasn’t worked for Alistair as the team has never been in a position to carry him while he learns his trade.


So, when was the last graduate from our youth set up to make it as a 1st team regular? Sadly it is attitudes like yours which make it less likely we see any sort of return on the huge investment we have made into the youth system. No doubt about it Smith was one of the best products of that system yet successive managers never gave him any sort of chance, now he has the chance at a level only slightly below ours he is flourishing. We'll see how this pans out, but for our youth set up to have any merit whatsoever we really do need to start seeing some players come through, other clubs do it (Ollie Clarke is a classic example of that).

In terms of the player himself, as I said earlier, he is right to want to play regular football and he will not get it here, especially now given the arrival of Lapslie and Quinn. I would have given him the rest of the season on loan at Alty and took stock then, I really do not see what we had to lose. I do fear that because we can afford top end wages at this level managers will continue to be reluctant to have patience with youth players, rendering the set up almost pointless, which considering the work that goes on there, is a crying shame.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:16 pm

Rob

You are totally incorrect to say that Smith was one of our better products. I have watched him play on a number of occasions and will freely say that he had some very good attributes that could have seen him play at League 1 level at least. Unfortunately he also had attributes that would make it difficult to make it in non league. His spatial awareness was poor as was his balance. This made it easy for players to blindside him and take the ball. His concentration levels were also poor and he regularly went missing for large parts of games meaning the team had to carry him. He also showed a lack of strength given his size and was too easily bullied.

Yes he could pick a very good pass occasionally but that’s not enough given his other faults. In short, if we had relied on Alistair and waited for him to develop we would certainly have been in a relegation battle. Imagine the blows to his confidence as fans bemoaned his stuttering around the pitch.

My attitude to this particular player is actually the kindest for him and will allow him to develop at a lower level. You mention that 3 managers have failed to give him game time which probably means they have assessed his levels as similar to my assessment.

If we kept every young player who failed to make the grade on our books, not only would the club not progress but it probably wouldn’t have many fans turning up either. Additionally those players would stagnate and end up leaving the game altogether. By allowing them to leave they at least have a chance.

The other factor you refuse to acknowledge is the fact that Alister was part of our wage structure and his wages were contributing towards our cap. You even accept that leaving was best for the player yet want to hold him back until the end of the season when he will have more players to compete with and may not get a deal as high up the pyramid. It’s your attitude that’s wrong and restrictive for the player.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:45 pm

Broomo and Bear have pointed out that Nigel Clough is a very good at recruiting and releasing players and that there are not many players he has released who have come back to bite him on the bum. He has played and managed at all levels so he will have a very good idea of the standard required. He will also have seen loads of young players at Derby County, Sheffield United and Burton Albion. He is probably thinking of players who are League 1 standard if he is trying to build a promotion winning team. He clearly does not think Alistair Smith will reach that standard in the next few seasons.

Sadly as a team moves up the leagues, players young and old will fall away and generally be replaced by better players. This is the ruthless competitive nature of football. If players are not good enough for a certain level then they are released or sold on.

I think only Harry Anderson is left at Lincoln City from their double promotion winning side. Harry Toffolo has moved up to the Championship, John Akinde and Michael Bostwick are still in League 1 but the other players have dropped down to League 2, the National League, the Irish League or retired.

Players will eventually find their level as Part Time Pete has mentioned another thread. Young players will also be released to make room for the next hot prospects coming up from the academy. That's football. It's always great to see some of these players make it back to the EFL but the percentage of players who do this is very small. They are generally the exception to the rule.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:41 pm

As I said, we are not a club that gives youth a chance, we haven't been since Dearden had to. It's a shame and I am not sure what the purpose of our Academy is, but for as long as the attitudes of a few on here are shared by the club it is unlikely we will see a youth team product become a first team regular, which I find very sad. I hope Alastair proves you wrong, I think he will, as "found his level at Halifax" Gregory did ;)
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