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Season restart dates :

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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Rob » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:24 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:Finding this a very interesting thread and there are a lot of varied opinions ranging from people being prepared to take their chances, some being a bit more cautious, to those who won't go out till there is a vaccine or the virus is eliminated. With a few exceptions, these seem to generally be age related with the young having a 'sod it' attitude and the older end of the support being very wary. I fit somewhere in the middle but I won't be rushing back till the number have fallen a lot more than they are now.
My concern is that those with the 'take it on the chin' attitude are going to prolong the recovery from the virus as they will continue to spread it and keep the numbers up.
While we naturally become more risk averse as we get older, I think the young people do need to look at the wider picture and consider the potential impact on others. With the virus being contagious in pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic cases it means it is easily spread by people who don't even now they are carrying the diseases, This means you could be infecting people for between 4 and 14 days without even knowing you are infected yourself. While you may be young, fit and healthy (I will come to that later), how would you feel if you found out you were responsible for passing it on to your grandparents, parents, work colleagues, or even your mate who is diabetic or asthmatic ?
I don't know the current figures, but a couple of weeks ago they were saying that approximately 1 in every 2,000 people was currently infected. This means that if there was a match with a 25-30% crowd capacity allowed, the chances are that at least one person in that crowd would be carrying the virus. How many people would they infect during the 2 hours in the ground ? 10 ? 20 ? 30 ? And how many people would then be infected by those ? A league 2 football match could easily be the cause of a localised outbreak leading to a further lockdown.
Now back to the young, fit and healthy part of it. Yes it is widely accepted that the majority of fatalities and serious cases of infection are older or have pre-existing conditions but there are no guarantees that you won't be one of the unlucky ones. Even if you survive the illness, at what cost ? Somebody flippantly mentioned earlier in this thread that he gets out of breath walking from the pub to the ground. That may be so, but there is a big difference between being a bit wheezy after walking a mile or so, and having to sit down halfway up the stairs. And this is not just when you have the virus, people are still in this condition 3 months after 'recovery', and these are not the old people that have been on ventilators, these are young people in their 20s who had a 'mild' case and stayed at home. Nobody yet knows the long term damage this virus is doing to peoples lungs and internal organs. Do you really want to live the rest of your life like that just to watch a football match ? Add to that the fact the the virus is also affecting some people (including young people) neurologically, leaving them with brain conditions which they may never fully recover from.
If after reading this you still think you are prepared to take that risk, then that would be fine if the only person likely to be affected was yourself. I used to race stockcars in my 20s and early 30s which was dangerous but I accepted that risk and the only person it would impact on was me. But this is not a choice you are making just for yourself, as the impact on others is also your responsibility. We have never been in this position in our lifetimes, and we need to stick together to beat this virus and consider other people as well as ourselves.
Yes we need to get back to normal life as soon as possible, but the best way to do that is to be as cautious as we can be until the numbers have dropped a lot more. Now is not the time to be selfish and just think of yourself.


Some good points Dave and whilst we are the same age, I do slightly differ in that I think we do need to start getting back to the new normal and this does mean, for me anyway, a return to spectator sports, concerts, etc, etc. I do think they have to be better managed and I have seen examples (Norway I think) where social distancing at football grounds has been practical. It's not about being selfish, the younger generation are the ones who are going to be most affected by this crisis for what, effectively, is protecting the older generation. I think it is right that we return to some sort of normal as soon as possible and if the older generation and vulnerable are not comfortable with that, then of course they can take their own precautions. If that means not seeing their kids/grand kids because they are going to concerts and football matches until they feel safe, well so be it. We cannot, as Sandy suggests, wait for a vaccine, no-one knows when, or even if, that might be available. So we need to continue to take reasonable precautions, but we do need to return to some sort of normality.

I still maintain watching football, outdoors, socially distanced seating, is safer than sitting in a pub or shopping at Tesco.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby I am Spartacus » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:50 am

How we are allowed to renter football grounds and how we behave now and how our behaviour at grounds needs to alter.

Field Mill, like many modern stadiums, is not designed to accommodate social distancing from queuing to get in the ground, the narrowness of turnstiles, the lack of a one way system in the concourses, the narrowness of concourses, the lack of an area to eat refreshments, the free for all system of taking and leaving a seat, cheering and singing loudly, hugging a mate after a Sir Mal Benning screamer, the close proximity of seating, the personal searches and pat downs before entering, last minute rushes to the turnstiles after having the ‘last needed pint because you have seen the line up’, being with people who aren’t in your bubble, the narrowness of the players tunnel, the cramped referees changing room, supporters coaches, away fans being marched in a tight coral to the turnstiles and being held back in cramped locations after the final whistle (Chesterfield away any one??). All these involve things that we have been repeatedly told is not good practice and should be avoided. The club and ourselves will need to display a great deal of thought, patience and compliance to ensure we all go home safely.

Do you think it can be accomplished as we are all thinking educated people. Well the Danish allowed 750 fans from each club to attend their cup final this season on the condition that they sat apart. Unfortunately it was stopped for 14 minutes because fans from one side decided to sit together. The game restarted after they had been ejected from the ground. And the behavior this weekend in town was hopefully a one off.

I hope we can be behave better upon reentering the ground and get to see a full season.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby I am Spartacus » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:59 am

So before the fixture lists can be produced And we can enter the grounds to ensure that football is as financially viable as is practicable, we are waiting for the following:
Conference Playoffs to be played (August).
The outcome of the EFL appealing Macclesfields points deductions.
Any legal action Macclesfield May subsequently take.
Any clubs imploding due to financial reasons.
Government guidance and approval for mass gatherings at sporting events.

Not much that needs sorting really.See you all sometime soon, possibly?
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby BH_Stag » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:10 am

No matter which of the 2 dates is voted for, there’s going to be a serious rush for a lot of teams to get organised.

Ideally we need to be getting pre-season underway in 3 weeks and be playing friendlies in a months time. We saw first hand how important it is to have a good pre-season after last years shambles. To have a proper pre-season though you need your squad together for as long as possible and obviously the vast majority of clubs don’t have anywhere near a complete squad.

Understand that pretty much every club won’t be able to have an ‘ideal’ pre-season due to circumstance, but hopefully we can continue our early business where possible and gain an advantage that way. Everything is slow in the lower leagues at the moment, but once there’s a start date things will have to pick up pretty rapidly.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Chrisuknottm » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:07 am

I accept everything everyone has said on both sides of the argument and respect their right to say it.

As one of the "over 60s take it on the chin" mentality my own view is that there has been a total over reaction ...I'm not saying that Covid doesn't have its danger to some people or some groups....but is it "massively" more dangerous than any of the "simple" winter flu's of the past ten years that we simply accepted and got on with things without destroying the "economy" and everyday life as we know it. It's definitely not worse in the UK than Hong Kong flu of 68/69 and we all carried on then especially watching the FA Cup run in all its glory.

When you look at statistics you can make them meaningful for whichever side of the argument you're on. But where have all the second spikes been since the exodus to the coast in the May Bank Holidays and mass protests around the country in June. The Chief Scientists at the press briefing last Friday actually (reluctantly) admitted there hadn't been but it was buried in the reporting whereas you know that if they'd said the R rate had gone up to 1.01 the headlines would have been self evident.

The actual facts behind the Leicester Lockdown don't support what is happening there so maybe there's another reason.

Whilst I am where I am in the argument the pros and cons in every decision that have been made since relaxation commenced lead you to think it's a toss of the coin either way....but isn't that how we all live everyday life from crossing the road to doing dangerous jobs to looking after sick relatives who could still infect us? I'd go back to Field Mill tomorrow and suspect that the powers that be are moving towards that for September.

Just think of the changes in the two months since May and what can happen in the two months until potentially the 12th September especially if death rates (currently below normal for this time of year) continue to remain where they are and, despite testing producing more positive cases, the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, as they never were despite the intensity of what they did deal with.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby arsene wengers coat » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:36 am

Dan wrote:Great post Dave but there are too many selfish people in this country sadly. You only have to look at the toilet roll hoarders from early on to those who are too selfish to follow an arrow in the local supermarket. It’s the old “I’m alright Jack” mentality that sadly you won’t change as its ingrained in their DNA.


I hate this use of 'im alright jack'. Such a lazy assumption. It's A term used by angry little Englanders from Brexit to vocalise that they felt left behind by progress and society, and blamed people who believed that the EU was a positive in our country.

You simply can't expect people who have a small chance of being impacted by something to take all the same precautions as someone who is at high risk. Wanting to get back to normal quickly is not selfish, especially as the younger generation spend a higher proportion of their lower income on accommodation etc, while all the wealth in the nation is hoarded by the over 70s on their final salary pensions.

You should shield if you want to, but dont get upset if others don't feel they can afford to sit around waiting for a vaccine while the economy falls off a cliff.

You could argue that your opinion to expect everyone to sit on their hands and wait for you to deem it safe is equally selfish. 'im not alright yet jack'.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Dan » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:01 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:
Dan wrote:Great post Dave but there are too many selfish people in this country sadly. You only have to look at the toilet roll hoarders from early on to those who are too selfish to follow an arrow in the local supermarket. It’s the old “I’m alright Jack” mentality that sadly you won’t change as its ingrained in their DNA.


I hate this use of 'im alright jack'. Such a lazy assumption. It's A term used by angry little Englanders from Brexit to vocalise that they felt left behind by progress and society, and blamed people who believed that the EU was a positive in our country.

You simply can't expect people who have a small chance of being impacted by something to take all the same precautions as someone who is at high risk. Wanting to get back to normal quickly is not selfish, especially as the younger generation spend a higher proportion of their lower income on accommodation etc, while all the wealth in the nation is hoarded by the over 70s on their final salary pensions.

You should shield if you want to, but dont get upset if others don't feel they can afford to sit around waiting for a vaccine while the economy falls off a cliff.

You could argue that your opinion to expect everyone to sit on their hands and wait for you to deem it safe is equally selfish. 'im not alright yet jack'.


That’s the thing though, no one knows who has got more chance of getting it. I know of people who have had it who haven’t had any symptoms and who haven’t got any risky conditions yet their test was positive. Those children who have died from it certainly weren’t in the at risk category. So yes people should be adhering to the advice given but the attitude that you and many others have got is the reason why we’re still in the mess we’re in.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby PEAR CIDER » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:02 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:
Dan wrote:Great post Dave but there are too many selfish people in this country sadly. You only have to look at the toilet roll hoarders from early on to those who are too selfish to follow an arrow in the local supermarket. It’s the old “I’m alright Jack” mentality that sadly you won’t change as its ingrained in their DNA.


I hate this use of 'im alright jack'. Such a lazy assumption. It's A term used by angry little Englanders from Brexit to vocalise that they felt left behind by progress and society, and blamed people who believed that the EU was a positive in our country.

You simply can't expect people who have a small chance of being impacted by something to take all the same precautions as someone who is at high risk. Wanting to get back to normal quickly is not selfish, especially as the younger generation spend a higher proportion of their lower income on accommodation etc, while all the wealth in the nation is hoarded by the over 70s on their final salary pensions.

You should shield if you want to, but dont get upset if others don't feel they can afford to sit around waiting for a vaccine while the economy falls off a cliff.

You could argue that your opinion to expect everyone to sit on their hands and wait for you to deem it safe is equally selfish. 'im not alright yet jack'.


Both excellent posts. For some, a 'new normal' just isn't worth the time and they'd rather risk the small chance of snuffing it then adhering to what is being requested.

Unfortunately, as a society, we are so set in our ways that long term drastic changes to our living will not sustain.

Every sector will suffer because of the social distancing requests as well as industry price hikes to compensate for the loss of income.

Pubs won't carry on serving for much longer if the rules are not relaxed. They will get their day time trade, but people won't go out on a Saturday night if there is no music etc - arguably their biggest income (then you have the taxi firms, takeways)

My barbers up'd their cost 25% since opening - These will be affected as blokes will just shave their heads as that hike is huge.

I suppose what I'm getting at, is that we have to get back to the normal we knew 6 months ago, or as close to as possible otherwise we're going to see devasting effects on our economy and job losses, even more so than we are now. A broken and collapsed economy with no money go round will impact lives (and lead to death) more than relaxing the rules imo. Unfortunately, someone will suffer whichever way we go.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby chip63 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:07 pm

On the football side of things can we find 4000 fans willing to take a risk?
It sounds 50/50 on here about who will return.
I really can't see the future of lower league football sustaining this pandemic.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby yorkstag » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:32 pm

Chrisuknottm wrote:I accept everything everyone has said on both sides of the argument and respect their right to say it.

As one of the "over 60s take it on the chin" mentality my own view is that there has been a total over reaction ...I'm not saying that Covid doesn't have its danger to some people or some groups....but is it "massively" more dangerous than any of the "simple" winter flu's of the past ten years that we simply accepted and got on with things without destroying the "economy" and everyday life as we know it. It's definitely not worse in the UK than Hong Kong flu of 68/69 and we all carried on then especially watching the FA Cup run in all its glory.

When you look at statistics you can make them meaningful for whichever side of the argument you're on. But where have all the second spikes been since the exodus to the coast in the May Bank Holidays and mass protests around the country in June. The Chief Scientists at the press briefing last Friday actually (reluctantly) admitted there hadn't been but it was buried in the reporting whereas you know that if they'd said the R rate had gone up to 1.01 the headlines would have been self evident.

The actual facts behind the Leicester Lockdown don't support what is happening there so maybe there's another reason.

Whilst I am where I am in the argument the pros and cons in every decision that have been made since relaxation commenced lead you to think it's a toss of the coin either way....but isn't that how we all live everyday life from crossing the road to doing dangerous jobs to looking after sick relatives who could still infect us? I'd go back to Field Mill tomorrow and suspect that the powers that be are moving towards that for September.

Just think of the changes in the two months since May and what can happen in the two months until potentially the 12th September especially if death rates (currently below normal for this time of year) continue to remain where they are and, despite testing producing more positive cases, the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, as they never were despite the intensity of what they did deal with.

Covid is no worse than flu ?
I understand the economic argument but this is absolute garbage. I respect your right to spout garbage but Covid is no worse than flu - get a grip man.
I do agree we need to get back to some sort of normality ASAP but let’s keep to the facts and understand the risks .
You should live in Texas or Brazil
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Sneag » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:47 pm

chip63 wrote:On the football side of things can we find 4000 fans willing to take a risk?
It sounds 50/50 on here about who will return.
I really can't see the future of lower league football sustaining this pandemic.


Under current social distancing regs we would be allowed 4,000 in the ground.

Not that the regs are worth the paper they aren't written on.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:58 pm

chip63 wrote:On the football side of things can we find 4000 fans willing to take a risk?
It sounds 50/50 on here about who will return.
I really can't see the future of lower league football sustaining this pandemic.
As things stand with covid 19, I don't think those that impose the safety measures will allow 4,000 into the ground.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:02 pm

yorkstag wrote:
Chrisuknottm wrote:I accept everything everyone has said on both sides of the argument and respect their right to say it.

As one of the "over 60s take it on the chin" mentality my own view is that there has been a total over reaction ...I'm not saying that Covid doesn't have its danger to some people or some groups....but is it "massively" more dangerous than any of the "simple" winter flu's of the past ten years that we simply accepted and got on with things without destroying the "economy" and everyday life as we know it. It's definitely not worse in the UK than Hong Kong flu of 68/69 and we all carried on then especially watching the FA Cup run in all its glory.

When you look at statistics you can make them meaningful for whichever side of the argument you're on. But where have all the second spikes been since the exodus to the coast in the May Bank Holidays and mass protests around the country in June. The Chief Scientists at the press briefing last Friday actually (reluctantly) admitted there hadn't been but it was buried in the reporting whereas you know that if they'd said the R rate had gone up to 1.01 the headlines would have been self evident.

The actual facts behind the Leicester Lockdown don't support what is happening there so maybe there's another reason.

Whilst I am where I am in the argument the pros and cons in every decision that have been made since relaxation commenced lead you to think it's a toss of the coin either way....but isn't that how we all live everyday life from crossing the road to doing dangerous jobs to looking after sick relatives who could still infect us? I'd go back to Field Mill tomorrow and suspect that the powers that be are moving towards that for September.

Just think of the changes in the two months since May and what can happen in the two months until potentially the 12th September especially if death rates (currently below normal for this time of year) continue to remain where they are and, despite testing producing more positive cases, the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, as they never were despite the intensity of what they did deal with.

Covid is no worse than flu ?
I understand the economic argument but this is absolute garbage. I respect your right to spout garbage but Covid is no worse than flu - get a grip man.
I do agree we need to get back to some sort of normality ASAP but let’s keep to the facts and understand the risks .
You should live in Texas or Brazil
Covid 19 is a strange illness. For some it is a killer for others it seems you don't know you have it. It certainly is more serious in the over 65 age group.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby arsene wengers coat » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:03 pm

yorkstag wrote:
Chrisuknottm wrote:I accept everything everyone has said on both sides of the argument and respect their right to say it.

As one of the "over 60s take it on the chin" mentality my own view is that there has been a total over reaction ...I'm not saying that Covid doesn't have its danger to some people or some groups....but is it "massively" more dangerous than any of the "simple" winter flu's of the past ten years that we simply accepted and got on with things without destroying the "economy" and everyday life as we know it. It's definitely not worse in the UK than Hong Kong flu of 68/69 and we all carried on then especially watching the FA Cup run in all its glory.

When you look at statistics you can make them meaningful for whichever side of the argument you're on. But where have all the second spikes been since the exodus to the coast in the May Bank Holidays and mass protests around the country in June. The Chief Scientists at the press briefing last Friday actually (reluctantly) admitted there hadn't been but it was buried in the reporting whereas you know that if they'd said the R rate had gone up to 1.01 the headlines would have been self evident.

The actual facts behind the Leicester Lockdown don't support what is happening there so maybe there's another reason.

Whilst I am where I am in the argument the pros and cons in every decision that have been made since relaxation commenced lead you to think it's a toss of the coin either way....but isn't that how we all live everyday life from crossing the road to doing dangerous jobs to looking after sick relatives who could still infect us? I'd go back to Field Mill tomorrow and suspect that the powers that be are moving towards that for September.

Just think of the changes in the two months since May and what can happen in the two months until potentially the 12th September especially if death rates (currently below normal for this time of year) continue to remain where they are and, despite testing producing more positive cases, the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, as they never were despite the intensity of what they did deal with.

Covid is no worse than flu ?
I understand the economic argument but this is absolute garbage. I respect your right to spout garbage but Covid is no worse than flu - get a grip man.
I do agree we need to get back to some sort of normality ASAP but let’s keep to the facts and understand the risks .
You should live in Texas or Brazil


Don't dismiss it so quickly. It's very hard to compare death rates for the diseases like covid and flu because a lot of death certificates don't site either flu or covid, but might state that respiratory disease like pneumonia was the cause of death which is a bit of a lie, because the pneumonia was caused by either the flu or covid.

Covid is certainly spreading quickly. But a true comparison of the two you'd need to compare death rates in a given age range per 1000 people who get it. When you do that, you'll see covid and flu death rates per thousand aren't that different.

What makes covid difficult is the ease by which it spreads, it's way more contagious than flu, and that we don't have a vaccine, where we do for flu.

They aren't the same, but there are comparisons.
Last edited by arsene wengers coat on Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby arsene wengers coat » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:06 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
yorkstag wrote:
Chrisuknottm wrote:I accept everything everyone has said on both sides of the argument and respect their right to say it.

As one of the "over 60s take it on the chin" mentality my own view is that there has been a total over reaction ...I'm not saying that Covid doesn't have its danger to some people or some groups....but is it "massively" more dangerous than any of the "simple" winter flu's of the past ten years that we simply accepted and got on with things without destroying the "economy" and everyday life as we know it. It's definitely not worse in the UK than Hong Kong flu of 68/69 and we all carried on then especially watching the FA Cup run in all its glory.

When you look at statistics you can make them meaningful for whichever side of the argument you're on. But where have all the second spikes been since the exodus to the coast in the May Bank Holidays and mass protests around the country in June. The Chief Scientists at the press briefing last Friday actually (reluctantly) admitted there hadn't been but it was buried in the reporting whereas you know that if they'd said the R rate had gone up to 1.01 the headlines would have been self evident.

The actual facts behind the Leicester Lockdown don't support what is happening there so maybe there's another reason.

Whilst I am where I am in the argument the pros and cons in every decision that have been made since relaxation commenced lead you to think it's a toss of the coin either way....but isn't that how we all live everyday life from crossing the road to doing dangerous jobs to looking after sick relatives who could still infect us? I'd go back to Field Mill tomorrow and suspect that the powers that be are moving towards that for September.

Just think of the changes in the two months since May and what can happen in the two months until potentially the 12th September especially if death rates (currently below normal for this time of year) continue to remain where they are and, despite testing producing more positive cases, the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, as they never were despite the intensity of what they did deal with.

Covid is no worse than flu ?
I understand the economic argument but this is absolute garbage. I respect your right to spout garbage but Covid is no worse than flu - get a grip man.
I do agree we need to get back to some sort of normality ASAP but let’s keep to the facts and understand the risks .
You should live in Texas or Brazil
Covid 19 is a strange illness. For some it is a killer for others it seems you don't know you have it. It certainly is more serious in the over 65 age group.


Apparently 20 million could have had it in the UK. Only 3 deaths in the u15 category, only 1 of those didn't have underlying health condition.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Dave Wayne » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:48 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
yorkstag wrote:
Chrisuknottm wrote:I accept everything everyone has said on both sides of the argument and respect their right to say it.

As one of the "over 60s take it on the chin" mentality my own view is that there has been a total over reaction ...I'm not saying that Covid doesn't have its danger to some people or some groups....but is it "massively" more dangerous than any of the "simple" winter flu's of the past ten years that we simply accepted and got on with things without destroying the "economy" and everyday life as we know it. It's definitely not worse in the UK than Hong Kong flu of 68/69 and we all carried on then especially watching the FA Cup run in all its glory.

When you look at statistics you can make them meaningful for whichever side of the argument you're on. But where have all the second spikes been since the exodus to the coast in the May Bank Holidays and mass protests around the country in June. The Chief Scientists at the press briefing last Friday actually (reluctantly) admitted there hadn't been but it was buried in the reporting whereas you know that if they'd said the R rate had gone up to 1.01 the headlines would have been self evident.

The actual facts behind the Leicester Lockdown don't support what is happening there so maybe there's another reason.

Whilst I am where I am in the argument the pros and cons in every decision that have been made since relaxation commenced lead you to think it's a toss of the coin either way....but isn't that how we all live everyday life from crossing the road to doing dangerous jobs to looking after sick relatives who could still infect us? I'd go back to Field Mill tomorrow and suspect that the powers that be are moving towards that for September.

Just think of the changes in the two months since May and what can happen in the two months until potentially the 12th September especially if death rates (currently below normal for this time of year) continue to remain where they are and, despite testing producing more positive cases, the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, as they never were despite the intensity of what they did deal with.

Covid is no worse than flu ?
I understand the economic argument but this is absolute garbage. I respect your right to spout garbage but Covid is no worse than flu - get a grip man.
I do agree we need to get back to some sort of normality ASAP but let’s keep to the facts and understand the risks .
You should live in Texas or Brazil
Covid 19 is a strange illness. For some it is a killer for others it seems you don't know you have it. It certainly is more serious in the over 65 age group.


Apparently 20 million could have had it in the UK. Only 3 deaths in the u15 category, only 1 of those didn't have underlying health condition.

COULD is a very big word there. I assume you are taking that from the newspaper headlines in mid-May that came from a single scientific study ? Many other scientists have raised questions about the data sampling and methodology used in the study.
Do you have a source for the 3 deaths under 15 ? I googled it and found that in some figures released in June for deaths up to 8th May. Do you have a link to any more current figures ?

The comparison by Chris to the Hong Kong flu is a little bit early. The UK suffered 80k deaths from that, but that was in a period of over a year, with the 2nd wave being worse than the 1st. Excess deaths in the UK over a 3 month period March to June this year were 65k and that figure is still rising so a bit early to compare just yet.

Those who think we should get back to normal as soon as we can need to take a look at what is happening in the US. All the states that went back to normal are seeing massive increases in infection rates with over 50% of infections in under 35s.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby arsene wengers coat » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:17 pm

Here's the source for 3 deaths u15. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... h-52003804 but to be fair, that could be.out.of date now, probably isn't due to young people being able defeat it quite easily.

And yes, I used the 20mil source that might or might not be credible.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Dave Wayne » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:27 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:Here's the source for 3 deaths u15. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... h-52003804 but to be fair, that could be.out.of date now, probably isn't due to young people being able defeat it quite easily.

And yes, I used the 20mil source that might or might not be credible.

Like I said, if you scroll down to the first graphics it quite clearly states Covid-19 deaths registered by 8 May.
It is possible that figure hasn't changed, but you stated it as if it was a current figure, with no context of the fact it is 2 months out of date.
Basically using 'fake news' to support your argument.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby arsene wengers coat » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:56 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
arsene wengers coat wrote:Here's the source for 3 deaths u15. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... h-52003804 but to be fair, that could be.out.of date now, probably isn't due to young people being able defeat it quite easily.

And yes, I used the 20mil source that might or might not be credible.

Like I said, if you scroll down to the first graphics it quite clearly states Covid-19 deaths registered by 8 May.
It is possible that figure hasn't changed, but you stated it as if it was a current figure, with no context of the fact it is 2 months out of date.
Basically using 'fake news' to support your argument.


Yes you're right. I'll use this more current source; https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... oviddeaths

published in july and probably more credible than the Beeb.

It actually states only 4 deaths now, so that's an increase of 1 in 2 months in that age range. That also supports my argument as well, thanks. Unless the office of national statistics publication of this week is also fake news.

Now you go and find something to the contrary you snooty git.

'fake news', behave.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Dave Wayne » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:39 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
arsene wengers coat wrote:Here's the source for 3 deaths u15. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... h-52003804 but to be fair, that could be.out.of date now, probably isn't due to young people being able defeat it quite easily.

And yes, I used the 20mil source that might or might not be credible.

Like I said, if you scroll down to the first graphics it quite clearly states Covid-19 deaths registered by 8 May.
It is possible that figure hasn't changed, but you stated it as if it was a current figure, with no context of the fact it is 2 months out of date.
Basically using 'fake news' to support your argument.


Yes you're right. I'll use this more current source; https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... oviddeaths

published in july and probably more credible than the Beeb.

It actually states only 4 deaths now, so that's an increase of 1 in 2 months in that age range. That also supports my argument as well, thanks. Unless the office of national statistics publication of this week is also fake news.

Now you go and find something to the contrary you snooty git.

'fake news', behave.

Being pedantic here but it's actually 6 not 4.
If you click on the graph it shows 4 in the 1 to 14 age group, and 2 under the age of 1. ;)
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby bellwhiff » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:00 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
arsene wengers coat wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
yorkstag wrote:
Chrisuknottm wrote:I accept everything everyone has said on both sides of the argument and respect their right to say it.

As one of the "over 60s take it on the chin" mentality my own view is that there has been a total over reaction ...I'm not saying that Covid doesn't have its danger to some people or some groups....but is it "massively" more dangerous than any of the "simple" winter flu's of the past ten years that we simply accepted and got on with things without destroying the "economy" and everyday life as we know it. It's definitely not worse in the UK than Hong Kong flu of 68/69 and we all carried on then especially watching the FA Cup run in all its glory.

When you look at statistics you can make them meaningful for whichever side of the argument you're on. But where have all the second spikes been since the exodus to the coast in the May Bank Holidays and mass protests around the country in June. The Chief Scientists at the press briefing last Friday actually (reluctantly) admitted there hadn't been but it was buried in the reporting whereas you know that if they'd said the R rate had gone up to 1.01 the headlines would have been self evident.

The actual facts behind the Leicester Lockdown don't support what is happening there so maybe there's another reason.

Whilst I am where I am in the argument the pros and cons in every decision that have been made since relaxation commenced lead you to think it's a toss of the coin either way....but isn't that how we all live everyday life from crossing the road to doing dangerous jobs to looking after sick relatives who could still infect us? I'd go back to Field Mill tomorrow and suspect that the powers that be are moving towards that for September.

Just think of the changes in the two months since May and what can happen in the two months until potentially the 12th September especially if death rates (currently below normal for this time of year) continue to remain where they are and, despite testing producing more positive cases, the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, as they never were despite the intensity of what they did deal with.

Covid is no worse than flu ?
I understand the economic argument but this is absolute garbage. I respect your right to spout garbage but Covid is no worse than flu - get a grip man.
I do agree we need to get back to some sort of normality ASAP but let’s keep to the facts and understand the risks .
You should live in Texas or Brazil
Covid 19 is a strange illness. For some it is a killer for others it seems you don't know you have it. It certainly is more serious in the over 65 age group.


Apparently 20 million could have had it in the UK. Only 3 deaths in the u15 category, only 1 of those didn't have underlying health condition.

COULD is a very big word there. I assume you are taking that from the newspaper headlines in mid-May that came from a single scientific study ? Many other scientists have raised questions about the data sampling and methodology used in the study.
Do you have a source for the 3 deaths under 15 ? I googled it and found that in some figures released in June for deaths up to 8th May. Do you have a link to any more current figures ?

The comparison by Chris to the Hong Kong flu is a little bit early. The UK suffered 80k deaths from that, but that was in a period of over a year, with the 2nd wave being worse than the 1st. Excess deaths in the UK over a 3 month period March to June this year were 65k and that figure is still rising so a bit early to compare just yet.

Those who think we should get back to normal as soon as we can need to take a look at what is happening in the US. All the states that went back to normal are seeing massive increases in infection rates with over 50% of infections in under 35s.


Fibber. Excess deaths are falling.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby Sneag » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:11 pm

Excess deaths have levelled off to normal levels.

We can just pretend the other 65,000 didn't happen, eh Belly.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:11 pm

Excess deaths are virtually at normal rates now.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby part time pete » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:40 pm

Those accustomed to privilege may feel that equality is oppression.
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Re: Season restart dates :

Postby chip63 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:04 am

Over 67 million people in the uk have not got or had the virus.
I try saying this to myself but I'm still very weary of going out and about.
The app to tell you when your near a hot spot is essential for confidence to return.
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