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The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

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The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:31 pm

Anyone else spotted the recent trajectory?

[apologies to “Only Connect”]

1. STEVE EVANS - foul person with good promotion pedigree
2. DAVID FLITCROFT - nicer bloke by far, but with little pedigree
3. JOHN DEMPSTER - nice bloke but zero pedigree

Next?

4. SAMMY STAG maybe?

Sorry, I’ve been on the gin!
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby cassellswasmagic » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:38 pm

Don’t care, but I’ll have a Gin !!!
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby The One » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:38 pm

Make mine a double
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby five to three » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:58 pm

EdwinstoweStag wrote:Anyone else spotted the recent trajectory?

[apologies to “Only Connect”]

1. STEVE EVANS - foul person with good promotion pedigree
2. DAVID FLITCROFT - nicer bloke by far, but with little pedigree
3. JOHN DEMPSTER - nice bloke but zero pedigree

Next?

4. SAMMY STAG maybe?

Sorry, I’ve been on the gin!


Santa Claus!!!!
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby NorthLondonStag » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:03 pm

Maybe they are lining Drewe up to take the job
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:13 pm

NorthLondonStag wrote:Maybe they are lining Drewe up to take the job


To quote my old gran:

“There’s many a true word spoken in jest”
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby Dan » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:17 pm

Now who’s making themselves look daft ;) :D
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:41 pm

Dan wrote:Now who’s making themselves look daft ;) :D

Unlike you, I do it intentionally, Dan. :lol: :D
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby Vice President » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:59 pm

Back on topic - Lets look at recent history:-

John Dempster is a re-run of Adam Murray and Duncan Russell. (Cheap option, no pedigree). There is a clear pattern of failure here.

The appointments of Steve Evans & David Flitcroft (both had a succesful track record, both appointed without an interview process). This was quite successful - If either of them had have had an extra season I believe they would have achieved promotion.

Going back further in time looking at promotion winning managers: Paul Cox (Track record but at a very low level), Ian Greaves (Track record and at a much higher level), George Foster (no track record but inherited Ian Greaves' set up), Dave Smith (??), Peter Morris (no management track record, but inherited Dave Smith's set up, plus had higher league experience). Stuart Watkiss (no track record, but inherited Billy Deardon's set-up).

I guess they hoped that JD would do what Watkiss, Foster & Morris achieved .... but he is actually a Duncan Russel/ Adam Murray.
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby The One » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:02 pm

Sir Dave Smith came from Arsenal coaching staff
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby Vice President » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:09 pm

The One wrote:Sir Dave Smith came from Arsenal coaching staff


Quality! - My favourite Stags manager of all time. He created the 'glory years'.

Ian Greaves was also quality - but Sir Dave had us playing the best football I have ever seen at Mansfield - and Dave Smith set up our one and only double promotion team, laying the foundation for our most successful team ever.

Have Arsenal got any one going spare on their coaching staff at the mo? ;)
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby The One » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:14 pm

Vice President wrote:
The One wrote:Sir Dave Smith came from Arsenal coaching staff


Quality! - My favourite Stags manager of all time. He created the 'glory years'.

Ian Greaves was also quality - but Sir Dave had us playing the best football I have ever seen at Mansfield - and Dave Smith set up our one and only double promotion team, laying the foundation for our most successful team ever.

Have Arsenal got any one going spare on their coaching staff at the mo? ;)


Wenger. You are right Sir Daves team best team ever at the mill. Oh for those days again.
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby tinman » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:01 pm

Lets hope one day we will have a 'Dave Smith Stand'

Lets say its the North Stand, re-united with the Stags fans, that would be the icing on the cake
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby The One » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:19 pm

tinman wrote:Lets hope one day we will have a 'Dave Smith Stand'

Lets say its the North Stand, re-united with the Stags fans, that would be the icing on the cake



Seconded. You went game home or away and knew we would win.
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby Fitzy499 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:28 pm

I’d take ant and dec at the moment
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby gazza1988 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:23 pm

Fitzy499 wrote:I’d take ant and dec at the moment

Maybe we are waiting for them to return from Oz?
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby adamstag » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:27 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
Fitzy499 wrote:I’d take ant and dec at the moment

Maybe we are waiting for them to return from Oz?


Well if ants about you’ll need to hide that gin.
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:34 pm

adamstag wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
Fitzy499 wrote:I’d take ant and dec at the moment

Maybe we are waiting for them to return from Oz?


Well if ants about you’ll need to hide that gin.


I’m as much of a fan of the Geordie duo as the next fella, but I am pretty sure that nowhere amidst their careers at Biker Grove, as pop singers belting out “Let’s Get Ready to Rumble”, Saturday Night Live and I’m a Celebrity did they acquire football management success.

I could be wrong of course (unless they are Nolan and Gazza in disguise)
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby ST4GS » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:37 pm

The One wrote:
Vice President wrote:
The One wrote:Sir Dave Smith came from Arsenal coaching staff


Quality! - My favourite Stags manager of all time. He created the 'glory years'.

Ian Greaves was also quality - but Sir Dave had us playing the best football I have ever seen at Mansfield - and Dave Smith set up our one and only double promotion team, laying the foundation for our most successful team ever.

Have Arsenal got any one going spare on their coaching staff at the mo? ;)


Wenger. You are right Sir Daves team best team ever at the mill. Oh for those days again.


It is a good job we kept our nerve and did not sack him During February 1976 when we were stranded at the bottom of Division 3.
Nowadays you see managers gaining a promotion (sometimes unexpectedly) and then relieved of their duties the next season after a few months.
ie Tisdale at MK Dons, that German fellow at Huddersfield who massively overachieved for two seasons then bang (he was gone)

League Division Three table after close of play on 10 February 1976
1 Hereford United 27 15 7 5 52 35 1.486 17 37
2 Crystal Palace 29 13 10 6 46 30 1.533 16 36
3 Brighton and Hove Albion 28 16 3 9 52 30 1.733 22 35
________________________________________________
4 Shrewsbury Town 28 14 6 8 41 33 1.242 8 34
5 Peterborough United 27 11 11 5 46 34 1.353 12 33
6 Cardiff City 28 13 6 9 44 35 1.257 9 32
7 Walsall 30 12 8 10 44 40 1.100 4 32
8 Port Vale 29 10 9 10 34 30 1.133 4 29
9 Wrexham 29 11 7 11 36 35 1.029 1 29
10 Millwall 29 9 11 9 32 36 0.889 -4 29
11 Gillingham 27 8 12 7 33 33 1.000 0 28
12 Rotherham United 28 11 6 11 36 38 0.947 -2 28
13 Preston North End 28 11 6 11 33 37 0.892 -4 28
14 Chester 27 10 8 9 31 36 0.861 -5 28
15 Bury 26 8 11 7 30 25 1.200 5 27
16 Grimsby Town 28 10 6 12 40 48 0.833 -8 26
17 Swindon Town 28 10 4 14 42 50 0.840 -8 24
18 Aldershot 27 8 8 11 37 46 0.804 -9 24
19 Southend United 25 8 6 11 39 41 0.951 -2 22
20 Chesterfield 28 8 6 14 41 46 0.891 -5 22
________________________________________________
21 Sheffield Wednesday 27 5 12 10 30 34 0.882 -4 22
22 Halifax Town 26 7 8 11 28 38 0.737 -10 22
23 Colchester United 29 7 7 15 23 48 0.479 -25 21
24 Mansfield Town 26 4 8 14 29 41 0.707 -12 16
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby part time pete » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:24 pm

I have feeling we lost game no.27 as well.

I think we then went 19 games unbeaten until the end of the season.

11 home games and eight away. The eight away games were seven wins plus a last game of season with a 2-2 draw at Port Vale.
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby Sweden Stag » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:36 pm

part time pete wrote:I have feeling we lost game no.27 as well.

I think we then went 19 games unbeaten until the end of the season.

11 home games and eight away. The eight away games were seven wins plus a last game of season with a 2-2 draw at Port Vale.


Yes. At Hereford. Then our 19-match run started with a 2-1 victory at Halifax.
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby acasman » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:58 pm

Rumours were rife that the squad hadn't been paid all the promotion bonuses due from the previous season. Once the money was in the bank so was the football !
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby Sneag » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:26 pm

ST4GS wrote:
The One wrote:
Vice President wrote:
The One wrote:Sir Dave Smith came from Arsenal coaching staff


Quality! - My favourite Stags manager of all time. He created the 'glory years'.

Ian Greaves was also quality - but Sir Dave had us playing the best football I have ever seen at Mansfield - and Dave Smith set up our one and only double promotion team, laying the foundation for our most successful team ever.

Have Arsenal got any one going spare on their coaching staff at the mo? ;)


Wenger. You are right Sir Daves team best team ever at the mill. Oh for those days again.


It is a good job we kept our nerve and did not sack him During February 1976 when we were stranded at the bottom of Division 3.
Nowadays you see managers gaining a promotion (sometimes unexpectedly) and then relieved of their duties the next season after a few months.
ie Tisdale at MK Dons, that German fellow at Huddersfield who massively overachieved for two seasons then bang (he was gone)

League Division Three table after close of play on 10 February 1976
1 Hereford United 27 15 7 5 52 35 1.486 17 37
2 Crystal Palace 29 13 10 6 46 30 1.533 16 36
3 Brighton and Hove Albion 28 16 3 9 52 30 1.733 22 35
________________________________________________
4 Shrewsbury Town 28 14 6 8 41 33 1.242 8 34
5 Peterborough United 27 11 11 5 46 34 1.353 12 33
6 Cardiff City 28 13 6 9 44 35 1.257 9 32
7 Walsall 30 12 8 10 44 40 1.100 4 32
8 Port Vale 29 10 9 10 34 30 1.133 4 29
9 Wrexham 29 11 7 11 36 35 1.029 1 29
10 Millwall 29 9 11 9 32 36 0.889 -4 29
11 Gillingham 27 8 12 7 33 33 1.000 0 28
12 Rotherham United 28 11 6 11 36 38 0.947 -2 28
13 Preston North End 28 11 6 11 33 37 0.892 -4 28
14 Chester 27 10 8 9 31 36 0.861 -5 28
15 Bury 26 8 11 7 30 25 1.200 5 27
16 Grimsby Town 28 10 6 12 40 48 0.833 -8 26
17 Swindon Town 28 10 4 14 42 50 0.840 -8 24
18 Aldershot 27 8 8 11 37 46 0.804 -9 24
19 Southend United 25 8 6 11 39 41 0.951 -2 22
20 Chesterfield 28 8 6 14 41 46 0.891 -5 22
________________________________________________
21 Sheffield Wednesday 27 5 12 10 30 34 0.882 -4 22
22 Halifax Town 26 7 8 11 28 38 0.737 -10 22
23 Colchester United 29 7 7 15 23 48 0.479 -25 21
24 Mansfield Town 26 4 8 14 29 41 0.707 -12 16



The players were kinda on strike.

Smith got sacked at the end of the season. Most likely for supporting his players.

This is a very different scenario.
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby acasman » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:07 pm

According to ex players Smith was universally disliked, playing staff, admin, board because he was pig ignorant. However he did know how to set up a team !
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Re: The Trajectory Of Stags Management Appointments

Postby Rob » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:37 pm

Vice President wrote:Back on topic - Lets look at recent history:-

John Dempster is a re-run of Adam Murray and Duncan Russell. (Cheap option, no pedigree). There is a clear pattern of failure here.

The appointments of Steve Evans & David Flitcroft (both had a succesful track record, both appointed without an interview process). This was quite successful - If either of them had have had an extra season I believe they would have achieved promotion.

Going back further in time looking at promotion winning managers: Paul Cox (Track record but at a very low level), Ian Greaves (Track record and at a much higher level), George Foster (no track record but inherited Ian Greaves' set up), Dave Smith (??), Peter Morris (no management track record, but inherited Dave Smith's set up, plus had higher league experience). Stuart Watkiss (no track record, but inherited Billy Deardon's set-up).

I guess they hoped that JD would do what Watkiss, Foster & Morris achieved .... but he is actually a Duncan Russel/ Adam Murray.


Some valid points and I do think JD was the wrong appointment, we needed an experienced head (like DF) to strengthen in a few areas but really to use at its best what is a strong squad - what we couldn't afford is someone to learn on the job, which is exactly what we have. I think any managerial appointment is hit and miss, but it was a truly dreadful decision to remove DF having finished 4th in his first full season - this is something I do not recall us ever doing before. Almost regardless of who we'd appointed we were once again resetting the wheel, completely unnecessarily and yes one or two of our more impatient fans were shouting for him to go but overall I think the majority were willing to give him another season. Andy King and Steve Parkin also had no track record but given what they had at their disposal, both did a pretty decent job overall so I don't think it follows that an inexperienced manager is always a bad thing, after all, where will they get that experience if not at League 2? However, given the money JR is pumping into the club, if he was going to make a change it really needed to be another experienced manager coming in.
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