Argyle scorefred sponsored by have we turned a corner?

[adamstag]

We are terrible but don't let that cloud our judgement. Sacking Flitcroft was the right decision.

Yes if was

[AlanStag]

Agree with Sneag and Stringy, sacking Flictroft was right but the appointment of his successor may not have been right. Had we been top 7 there would be no mention of DF, it's just a cheap easy argument now things aren't going great.

DF had a ridiculous budget, got pretty much every player he wanted and we paid off all those he didn't want. We gave him hotel stays for pretty much every away game which is ridiculous given many games are under 2 hours away. Towards the end of the season we trained at many top clubs, maybe at the generosity of other clubs, but in the build up to the MK Dons we trained at St George's which would have cost a fair bit. All in all, DF had no excuses to lose all three of the last games and his sacking was justified.

[BigGuy]

Apart from three players that we couldn’t get rid off you mean.

Enjoy this lower to mid table season, its what you wanted.

[Sedgwick]

We are terrible but don't let that cloud our judgement. Sacking Flitcroft was the right decision.

It really wasn't. He got us 4th, the best position in years... so so close with a squad full of enough players to disrupt the squad on high wages that didn't want to move on. This also took a massive chunk out of his budget, one reason we were so light upfront and had so many players on loan.

Should of copied Lincoln and stuck with the manager after play off defeat

[BigGuy]

Yes if was

Three words and still can’t get it right.

[Conker]

Flitcroft managed to mess up the first promotion (forgivable) but the second time after full backing and a full season was not, let’s not pretend how the end of last season was on par with what we’ve got now.

[BigGuy]

it's just a cheap easy argument now things aren't going great.

Hardly a cheap argument given things are far from going great, you might want to look at the league table sometime this weekend.

[awalkinthepark]

We are terrible but don't let that cloud our judgement. Sacking Flitcroft was the right decision.

It really wasn't. He got us 4th, the best position in years... so so close with a squad full of enough players to disrupt the squad on high wages that didn't want to move on. This also took a massive chunk out of his budget, one reason we were so light upfront and had so many players on loan.

Should of copied Lincoln and stuck with the manager after play off defeat

Just as a point of comparison Flitcroft's last 11 league games yielded 12 points. Not much better than Dempster's total.

[Stringy]

We are terrible but don't let that cloud our judgement. Sacking Flitcroft was the right decision.

It really wasn't. He got us 4th, the best position in years... so so close with a squad full of enough players to disrupt the squad on high wages that didn't want to move on. This also took a massive chunk out of his budget, one reason we were so light upfront and had so many players on loan.

Should of copied Lincoln and stuck with the manager after play off defeat

We should have been promoted last season and had enough chances to do it, although we were excellent until February and I probably would have been satisfied if we'd given him one more season. That said, it was absolutely the right decision to sack him. He failed two seasons in a row. A decent coach but I remain unconvinced.

[Stags 2002]

We are terrible but don't let that cloud our judgement. Sacking Flitcroft was the right decision.

It really wasn't. He got us 4th, the best position in years... so so close with a squad full of enough players to disrupt the squad on high wages that didn't want to move on. This also took a massive chunk out of his budget, one reason we were so light upfront and had so many players on loan.

Should of copied Lincoln and stuck with the manager after play off defeat

He got us 4th, i agree. But it was the form earlier in the season that arguably secured it when those so called merchants where still on the scene.

The form from February onwards was terrible, we've been on a downward spiral since then and we've merely continued it into this season. Dempster needs to go there is no doubt but I can't help feel that the poor bloke has been stitched up given last season's capitulation into thinking we only needed to sign a few strikers.

Our form divided on the back of Hayden Whites injury (look at the stats - proven again last week when he plays we have a significantly higher chance (albeit a draw) of winning with the wing back formation), and Flitcrofts failure to replace him in an amongst his other January flops contributed hugely to our downfall.

DF had no plan B, he couldn't adapt and it was the right to let him go. The mistake was not to bring in an experienced manager.

[AlanStag]

it's just a cheap easy argument now things aren't going great.

Hardly a cheap argument given things are far from going great, you might want to look at the league table sometime this weekend.

So you'd rather be higher in the table after 11 games, but miss out on promotion yet again?

It's just plainly short sighted to look at it and say we'd be better under DF. Would we be higher in the table at this point? Possibly, but it's a pointless question, we could have been worse if Flitcroft stayed!

The truth is he had two chances to get us promoted and bottled both attempts. If he had the ability to get us up he would have done last season in a poor league 2.

[BigGuy]

Of course I’d want to be higher in the table and challenging for promotion, even if we missed out again, better than a relegation battle.

What a strange question.

[gazza1988]

Flitcroft managed to mess up the first promotion (forgivable) but the second time after full backing and a full season was not, let’s not pretend how the end of last season was on par with what we’ve got now.

First promotion? WOW! Talk about priviledged. Evans got us 12th in his first season and signed a boatload of players on high wages and barely played them. He had to resort to Murray's players to start winning. We were 5th when he left. That is not promotion, its the play off lottery.

Alanstag, where did you get the info from he didn't get every player he wanted (that was Evans) we didn't pay off players he didn't want. He wanted rid of Anderson, Mirfin, Diamond, Atkinson and Butcher. He had to get rid of them if he wanted more players. In the end he kept Atkinson, Diamond retired through injury around christmas, Butcher went to Scotland (Dundee I think, not100%) in the January. Anderson was finally paid up on deadline day in January. Mirfin went to York on loan in January (I think he retired through injury as well). With the freed up wages from, Butcher, Diamond and Mirfin (can't see York paying his full wage but part of it) DF managed to bring in Turner, Jones, Tomlinson and Ajose.

Put it this way, now they have gone JD managed to afford Nicky Maynard, Andy Cook, Dion Donohue, Kellen Gordon, Dapo Afolayan,Aidan Stone and James Clarke (I could have missed someone). Tomlinson is still here.

For me, this would have been DF's final opportunity with no excuses available. I mentioned last season that he had too many extenuating circumstances out of his control that worked against him. We've basically got so close to our targets (both targets went down to the last game of the season) that we've now ripped it all up to start again.

[Stags 2002]

I should also add the form book doesn't lie, taking form for clubs in league 2 this year and last since 28th Jan there have only been 6 clubs with worse form than our own and we've already played 5 of them this season!!!

We could be further down the list given many have played less games and could easily leap our total which would leave only Port Vale below us by 1 point. In a normal season thats relegation so it isn't a surprise we find ourselves where we are.

MK Dons - Played 18 pts 32
Mansfield Town - played 28 pts 32
Tranmere Rovers - played 17 pts 31
Stevenage - played 27 pts 31
Morecambe - played 26 pts 31
Port Vale - played 28 pts 31
Carlisle United - played 27 pts 31
Cambridge United - played 27 pts 30
Macclesfield Town - played 27 pts 30

We've played 10 games more than MK dons and Tranmere since their promotions yet are only on par with their respective points haul in their final 17/18 games.

[Conker]

I didn’t mean it that way Gazza, so pop that opinion back in the treasure chest.

I think this notion we were wrong to sack DF purely because Dempster is a disaster is typical poorly thought out emotional stuff.

We haven’t made the correct managerial appointment since Cox.

[Sedgwick]

Flitcroft managed to mess up the first promotion (forgivable) but the second time after full backing and a full season was not, let’s not pretend how the end of last season was on par with what we’ve got now.

First promotion? WOW! Talk about priviledged. Evans got us 12th in his first season and signed a boatload of players on high wages and barely played them. He had to resort to Murray's players to start winning. We were 5th when he left. That is not promotion, its the play off lottery.

Alanstag, where did you get the info from he didn't get every player he wanted (that was Evans) we didn't pay off players he didn't want. He wanted rid of Anderson, Mirfin, Diamond, Atkinson and Butcher. He had to get rid of them if he wanted more players. In the end he kept Atkinson, Diamond retired through injury around christmas, Butcher went to Scotland (Dundee I think, not100%) in the January. Anderson was finally paid up on deadline day in January. Mirfin went to York on loan in January (I think he retired through injury as well). With the freed up wages from, Butcher, Diamond and Mirfin (can't see York paying his full wage but part of it) DF managed to bring in Turner, Jones, Tomlinson and Ajose.

Put it this way, now they have gone JD managed to afford Nicky Maynard, Andy Cook, Dion Donohue, Kellen Gordon, Dapo Afolayan,Aidan Stone and James Clarke (I could have missed someone). Tomlinson is still here.

For me, this would have been DF's final opportunity with no excuses available. I mentioned last season that he had too many extenuating circumstances out of his control that worked against him. We've basically got so close to our targets (both targets went down to the last game of the season) that we've now ripped it all up to start again.

Exactly. DF should of been given one more go with a full squad of his own players. Most players want their squad made up of all their own signings, DF got the best out of mostly what was already here.

[Vicar Jeremiah]

DF failing once was careless, failing twice was criminal.

[Sedgwick]

DF failing once was careless, failing twice was criminal.

He didn't fail the first time... do you have any idea how hard it is for a team to change the way they play that late into the season? DF could just let them carry on doing as they were before either or what was the point in having a manager, the team didn't come with a user manual.

[Stags 2002]

Sedgwick the recent stats prove otherwise. Two thirds of that form is under Flitcroft so what may have worked early season clearly had faltered which is why he had to go.

[MTFCMusings]

DF failing once was careless, failing twice was criminal.

He didn't fail the first time... do you have any idea how hard it is for a team to change the way they play that late into the season? DF could just let them carry on doing as they were before either or what was the point in having a manager, the team didn't come with a user manual.

Then don’t change the style. See Mick Harford with Luton.

[Gruff]

maybe, just maybe... these players aren't really good enough, and maybe the previous managers just got more out of them, but they got found out towards the end of the season.

[bigalstag]

And you think Dempster is even going to get us close to the position that Flitcroft got us up to last season.The decision to sack him was poor, and just how poor, has become apparent this season.

[sw19stag]

maybe, just maybe... these players aren't really good enough, and maybe the previous managers just got more out of them, but they got found out towards the end of the season.

I think you may well be right.

[gazza1988]

DF failing once was careless, failing twice was criminal.

He didn't fail the first time... do you have any idea how hard it is for a team to change the way they play that late into the season? DF could just let them carry on doing as they were before either or what was the point in having a manager, the team didn't come with a user manual.

Then don’t change the style. See Mick Harford with Luton.

He didn't change the style, we still smacked it long to Rose, we still played Anderson at RB, until DF saw it really wasn't working and tried White there, we still played 4-4-2. We still had some tough games in those last games. Swindon were still in the play off hunt as well when DF took over us and so was Peterborough, all 3 sides faltered changing manager at that point in the season. That can't be a coincidence.

[Spiritater]

maybe, just maybe... these players aren't really good enough, and maybe the previous managers just got more out of them, but they got found out towards the end of the season.

I think you may well be right.

The phrase 'spunkless bottlers ' comes to mind