Nigel Clough; Northampton post match

[Rob]

Here to be shot down....

Let an experienced manager take the time to build a team/squad. You take a thrown of the dice and hope you get it right and then adjust. The need for instant success has crippled this club for the past 6 years, and we're heading down the same road again.

Flynn didn't create a world beating team overnight, and what league are Newport in???

Suck it up, back off, support the team/manager.... Some of us have been doing it for longer than most... This is Mansfield

I agree Gruff.

[broomo]

Here to be shot down....

Let an experienced manager take the time to build a team/squad. You take a thrown of the dice and hope you get it right and then adjust. The need for instant success has crippled this club for the past 6 years, and we're heading down the same road again.

Flynn didn't create a world beating team overnight, and what league are Newport in???

Suck it up, back off, support the team/manager.... Some of us have been doing it for longer than most... This is Mansfield

Unfortunately there aren't enough folk who think your way Gruff.

If we don't get a result on Tuesday this place will go mental with everything that's been said to death being said to death again.

Pretty soon the pressure on the Radfords will be too intense for them to ignore.

I really like the owner, heard nothing but good things about him, even from people who worked for him and were let go as part of managerial shake ups.

Not every Chairman is Ben Robinson though, he came under intense pressure to fire Nige first 2 seasons in the conference and he just ignored it, blocked out the noise and then reaped the rewards.

Fans aren't patient. The majority of Sheff Utd fans wanted Chris Wilder sacked after 12 games of his first season in charge in League One.

[Rob]

Broomo, you are wrong, the patient ones tend to keep quiet, you just get the loud, impatient ones on here. I've not heard a single Clough out chant. The majority of us are willing him to succeed and are prepared to give him more time.

[broomo]

Broomo, you are wrong, the patient ones tend to keep quiet, you just get the loud, impatient ones on here. I've not heard a single Clough out chant. The majority of us are willing him to succeed and are prepared to give him more time.

Fair point and I hope you are right.

I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears the magnificent support at the games.

It's been the highlight of a very poor season and the most enjoyable part of the matchday experience of me being "one of you". I've really enjoyed that side of it.

[MTFCMusings]

I think it’s about realism rather than patience. The only thing that’s going to buy Clough more time is if he starts to win games, and I would suggest he needs to win one of the next two. If he doesn’t, he’ll be gone.

Rob I think you said give him until December somewhere (apologies if I’ve misremembered). There are nine games between now and the first December game. The most patient chairman in the world wouldn’t put up with a 21 game winless run. You can’t just put a date on it and say give him until x in my view.

Broomo you mention Wilder at Sheff U. He was 5th in the league after 12 games, it’s not really comparable is it, because to sack a manager after 12 games who was 5th in the league would be ludicrous. To sack a manager who is 22nd in the league and hasn’t won in 12 games, isn’t.

[Parkinsons Perm]

Broomo, you are wrong, the patient ones tend to keep quiet, you just get the loud, impatient ones on here. I've not heard a single Clough out chant. The majority of us are willing him to succeed and are prepared to give him more time.

Do you mean a Clough out chant on here or at a game Rob?

If you stayed long enough yesterday then there were a fair few Clough out chants as the players left the pitch

[broomo]

I think it’s about realism rather than patience. The only thing that’s going to buy Clough more time is if he starts to win games, and I would suggest he needs to win one of the next two. If he doesn’t, he’ll be gone.

Rob I think you said give him until December somewhere (apologies if I’ve misremembered). There are nine games between now and the first December game. The most patient chairman in the world wouldn’t put up with a 21 game winless run. You can’t just put a date on it and say give him until x in my view.

Broomo you mention Wilder at Sheff U. He was 5th in the league after 12 games, it’s not really comparable is it, because to sack a manager after 12 games who was 5th in the league would be ludicrous. To sack a manager who is 22nd in the league and hasn’t won in 12 games, isn’t.

When was he in the bottom 3 in that season then?

If it was before his first 12 games it shows just how ridiculous those fans were.

I agree NC is and should be under pressure but with everything I've witnessed in his 23 years in management, nothing will convince me it wouldn't be a mistake to fire him.

We won't go until the end of December without winning a game. Blind faith? Possibly.

[Rob]

Broomo, you are wrong, the patient ones tend to keep quiet, you just get the loud, impatient ones on here. I've not heard a single Clough out chant. The majority of us are willing him to succeed and are prepared to give him more time.

Do you mean a Clough out chant on here or at a game Rob?

If you stayed long enough yesterday then there were a fair few Clough out chants as the players left the pitch

I didn't hear a single one, I did hear some verbal abuse of our team though, which is pathetic.

[Parkinsons Perm]

Broomo, you are wrong, the patient ones tend to keep quiet, you just get the loud, impatient ones on here. I've not heard a single Clough out chant. The majority of us are willing him to succeed and are prepared to give him more time.

Do you mean a Clough out chant on here or at a game Rob?

If you stayed long enough yesterday then there were a fair few Clough out chants as the players left the pitch

I didn't hear a single one, I did hear some verbal abuse of our team though, which is pathetic.

Definitely quite a few where we were stood. Yes there was lots of verbal and hand signs towards the players

[Captain Cunno]

The fantasists always want instant success with any manager we've appointed in the JR years...

The realists hope for a proven manager with a track record to build a club over a period of time...

Unfortunately we have more of the first type on here who happen to shout louder...

No chance in earth NC gets sacked , JR has the type of manager he has wanted since taking over.
Yes we are on a terrible run but we all can see the reasons why even the ones who don't want to see it.
I would suspect NC would walk before it came to him being fired anyway..
He seems that type of honest guy to me.
(although broomo may disagree ?)

[arsene wengers coat]

It can also be pointed out that Nigel Clough only signed one of the four players who started in the early games who were missing yesterday - Stephen Quinn. He was our only key addition in the January transfer window and he was initially on loan.

James Perch and George Maris were signed by Graham Coughlan and Kellan Gordon was signed by John Dempster.

Regarding Clough's signings, only three of them have so far improved our squad:
Stephen Quinn
Nathan Bishop
Oli Hawkins

Elliott Hewitt has done ok at times but I'm not sure he is the long term answer to our centre half problems. Gets knocked off the ball and is not commanding enough in the air. Surely he was just signed as a squad utility player.

The rest have been very disappointing:
Oli Sarkic (injured)
Danny Johnson - Key signing who has performed below average to date
Rhys Oates - As above
Ryan Stirk (injured) - Inexperienced young lad who has only started once and is injured
Ryan Burke - inexperienced left back who does not look good enough.
Richard Nartey (injured) - Inexperienced emergency centre half signing who was awful against Walsall.
Will Forrester (injured) - Inexperienced emergency centre half signing who was injured when we signed him
George Shelvey - Inexperienced keeper who has been very poor in the two B Team Trophy games

That's a poor return from two transfer windows.

Players signed by Graham Coughlan
Ollie Clarke
George Maris
Farrend Rawson
James Perch
Harry Charsley
George Lapslie

Players signed by John Dempster
Kellan Gordon
James Clarke

Young Lads
Tyrese Sinclair
Jason Law
Keaton Ward

JR must be wanting to tear his very expensive hair out.

He hasn't been backed imo, were relying on cheap options throughout the squad.

Of those 9 initial targets I think we got 3 of them, Johnson, Bishop and Hawkins.

Not only Naylor we missed out on... multiple players in Scotland were targeted and we couldn't afford, a left back in this league we wouldn't pay a fee for and another CB who's at the top end of league one. Plus the lad from Leicester who chose Burton over us.

Stirk - inexperienced
Burke - inexperienced
Nartey - inexperienced, last minute
Forrester - inexperienced, last minute
Oates - Became available, chose us over wrexham/ Hartlepool
Hewitt - Cheap

Got to question the club why we've signed such inexperienced players, I think the ideal first 11 in preseason, which on paper isn't bad, covered up how poor the squad overall is.

Spoiling the ship for a ha’porth of tar springs to mind.

I’ve said for a while that the budget appears to have been considerably reduced and the directors have been relying too heavily on Clough’s reputation of building good sides from cheap players.

I heard some time ago that David Sharpe had come on board with a view to eventually buying the club and just dismissed it as fantasy. I’m not too sure now as he appears to be controlling the purse strings and if I were cynical I may speculate he was driving the price down.

Whatever the truth of the matter, I just hope we pull through this mini crisis which appears self inflicted.

Conspiracy level turned up to 11. Employee of the club overseeing failure so they can acquire it cheaper.

What I don't get about the Radfords is why did they allow Dempster, an unproven manager a large budget? Only to then get in a manager like Clough, and seemingly make him shop a Primark.

If they want out of this league (in the good way) they need to give a a good manager a warchest for transfers.

If Nigel has had a warchest like BH has suggested, that actually makes the current plight even less acceptable and strengthens the argument for his dismissal.

I don't think Nigel has any way back from this. We're not just going to turn a corner and start winning games, we need a couple of clean sheets and to get players back. By then we could be 15 without a win, that one third of the season.

[gazza1988]

Clough has always said he wants value for money. Maybe he's being too cheap?

It a possibility.

[Whitehalls Left Foot]

I think every Mansfield fan would want manager longevity and with NC that is certainly no different.

However NC like any other manager, whether they are experienced or not , whether they have a big name or not are ultimately judged on results because whether u have injuries, a poor transfer window, missed out on your top targets or not , you cannot got 12 odd games without a win and not be questioned as to whether this is the right fit !

I would LOVE Nigel to get it right and go on a run and take the pressure off but results are results and the league position reflects in the most part our performance on the pitch.

[MTFCMusings]

You admitted yourself Cunno that any other manager would have been sacked by now.

As any manager knows, you need the results to justify time being given. Clough has said as much today. We haven’t looked like winning a league game since August. Even before the injuries started, we conceded six goals in four games. Our first three opponents who we either won against or deserved to win against are in the bottom half. Even Bradford who we more or less matched are sitting in tenth place.

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I would suggest fantasy is expecting a manager to be given time when not having won for twelve games based on reputation rather than the evidence we have seen so far this season.

Here’s hoping the return of Quinn can at least turn us into a lower midtable side.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

but results are results and the league position reflects in the most part our performance on the pitch.

The xG league table backs that up. We are 20th in the xG table with 11 points: W2 D5 L5. So 1 point worse off than we should be based on performances. This is very worrying because we were clearly under performing last season and so it was no surprise when we eventually started to pick up wins. You cannot say the same this season.

You could argue that we should have won at Col U but perhaps that is cancelled out by our win against Newport where a draw would have been a fair result. We should have had a point against Bradford City and Swindon Town but we were fortunate to gain a point at Leyton Orient.

There needs to be a big improvement in performances but I'll take a few scrappy horrible 1-0 wins to start us off.

[Showaddywaddy]

I like Nigel Clough but his defence just does not stand up. The only person to blame is himself for his poor recruitment for what was supposed to be a promotion push. He failed to recruit the two experienced quality centre halfs that were supposed to be far better than Farrend Rawson and Ryan Sweeney who he frequently criticised last season.. He had the whole summer transfer window to do this. He has failed to recruit a striker who does the hard running and pressing who is better than Jamie Reid. He has decided to play with a big target man but has not signed a back up. He has not recruited enough experienced ball playing midfielders as back up for George Maris and Stephen Quinn and which are essential for his style of play. Our back up left back does not look good enough for League 2 and is nowhere near as good as Mal Benning. The reserve keeper he has recruited has been awful but he keeps putting him on the bench.

Regarding the players being unavailable from the early games then here is the comparison between the starting line ups in those games and today:
Bristol Rovers (Home) - 6 Starters with Oates being on the bench today. Missing: Perch, Gordon, Maris and Quinn
Newport County (Away) - Ditto
Colchester United (Away) - 7 Starters and Oates on the bench. Missing: Perch, Maris and Quinn
Bradford City (Home) - Ditto

I'm not convinced that we would suddenly become a winning side going for promotion with the return of those 3/4 players. It was also a massive risk to rely on a 36 year old centre half who has played most of his career at right back. Our best two players this season have been Oli Hawkins and Stephen McLaughlin and they have generally been available to play. George Maris has also played every league game until today.

Ryan Stirk also did not start in any of the above games. He's only started one game at Walsall and he had a fairly average game. However this inexperienced 21 year old with two starts for Birmingham City has now suddenly become the League 2 Pirlo who is a massive loss. It just does not stand up as a defence.

Nigel Clough needs to stop blaming the players that he retained or recruited and accept that the blame lies with him and his recruitment team. Managers have always lived or died by their recruitment. He also needs to find a way to get the best out of these players until January to keep us in the league. Keeping having a go at them is not going to help.

Yep, that's definitely a problem, they're not too fond of heading the ball clear, closing down, marking and tackling either.

[Captain Cunno]

You admitted yourself Cunno that any other manager would have been sacked by now.

As any manager knows, you need the results to justify time being given. Clough has said as much today. We haven’t looked like winning a league game since August. Even before the injuries started, we conceded six goals in four games. Our first three opponents who we either won against or deserved to win against are in the bottom half. Even Bradford who we more or less matched are sitting in tenth place.

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I would suggest fantasy is expecting a manager to be given time when not having won for twelve games based on reputation rather than the evidence we have seen so far this season.

Here’s hoping the return of Quinn can at least turn us into a lower midtable side.

I did say that and I stand by it....
It doesn't mean I want him sacked though...

JR was always gonna give someone like Clough longer to turn it round than Demps or Coughlan ,surely you can see that ?

[MTFCMusings]

You admitted yourself Cunno that any other manager would have been sacked by now.

As any manager knows, you need the results to justify time being given. Clough has said as much today. We haven’t looked like winning a league game since August. Even before the injuries started, we conceded six goals in four games. Our first three opponents who we either won against or deserved to win against are in the bottom half. Even Bradford who we more or less matched are sitting in tenth place.

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I would suggest fantasy is expecting a manager to be given time when not having won for twelve games based on reputation rather than the evidence we have seen so far this season.

Here’s hoping the return of Quinn can at least turn us into a lower midtable side.

I did say that and I stand by it....
It doesn't mean I want him sacked though...

JR was always gonna give someone like Clough longer to turn it round than Demps or Coughlan ,surely you can see that ?

I didn't say you did.

And yes I can see why, but for me there currently are no 'little green shoots' which justify it based on this season.

[Captain Cunno]

The little green shoots keep getting trampled on by injuries and suspensions though....

[Spiritater]

The little green shoots keep getting trampled on by injuries and suspensions though....

Suspensions are self inflicted very often through indiscipline and because you are second best. Both relate to us.

[Captain Cunno]

Hate to say it but I do agree...

A lot of this has been brought on by ourselves ,100%

[Spiritater]

Hate to say it but I do agree...

A lot of this has been brought on by ourselves ,100%

[Dan]

Broomo, you are wrong, the patient ones tend to keep quiet, you just get the loud, impatient ones on here. I've not heard a single Clough out chant. The majority of us are willing him to succeed and are prepared to give him more time.

Fair point and I hope you are right.

I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears the magnificent support at the games.

It's been the highlight of a very poor season and the most enjoyable part of the matchday experience of me being "one of you". I've really enjoyed that side of it.

#prayforbellwhiff

Regarding Stirk when he came on in his last game he was brilliant. I know I said had he been on the pitch longer I would’ve given him MOTM. Indeed someone did say they did give it to him, can’t remember who it was, maybe Rob? It seems that he’d just started to come into his own before he got injured.

[georgefostersbeard]

Broomo, you are wrong, the patient ones tend to keep quiet, you just get the loud, impatient ones on here. I've not heard a single Clough out chant. The majority of us are willing him to succeed and are prepared to give him more time.

Fair point and I hope you are right.

I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears the magnificent support at the games.

It's been the highlight of a very poor season and the most enjoyable part of the matchday experience of me being "one of you". I've really enjoyed that side of it.

#prayforbellwhiff

Regarding Stirk when he came on in his last game he was brilliant. I know I said had he been on the pitch longer I would’ve given him MOTM. Indeed someone did say they did give it to him, can’t remember who it was, maybe Rob? It seems that he’d just started to come into his own before he got injured.

Stirk looked a class apart when he played in his last game

[Sedgwick]

Broomo, you are wrong, the patient ones tend to keep quiet, you just get the loud, impatient ones on here. I've not heard a single Clough out chant. The majority of us are willing him to succeed and are prepared to give him more time.

Fair point and I hope you are right.

I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears the magnificent support at the games.

It's been the highlight of a very poor season and the most enjoyable part of the matchday experience of me being "one of you". I've really enjoyed that side of it.

#prayforbellwhiff

Regarding Stirk when he came on in his last game he was brilliant. I know I said had he been on the pitch longer I would’ve given him MOTM. Indeed someone did say they did give it to him, can’t remember who it was, maybe Rob? It seems that he’d just started to come into his own before he got injured.

Stirk looked a class apart when he played in his last game

I think he'll be a very good midfielder and one that Birmingham will loan to a higher level next season if he gets going with us after his injury