{ the forum }
 
Stagsnet wishes you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Clough in

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

Re: Clough in

Postby bear 73 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:25 pm

Parkinsons Perm wrote:
bear 73 wrote:There is a new plan keep the manager and get rid of players who are not good enough, this can only be done in the transfer windows so between each window the players have a chance to do their jobs.
The manager can only give them a game plan and once they cross that white line, the player is responsible for their actions


What's the chuffin game plan cos only you can see it?

Have a full squad, give the players information about their opponents, and relay the job expected of them, and always give your team mate a good pass, cross into good areas
and dont let their defenders settle, shoot at every opportunity while being aware of players around you.
Always pick your man up at free kicks, corners, throw ins, if you cant win a game , do not lose it
bear 73
Assistant Manager
Assistant Manager
 
Posts: 1007
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:01 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby BH_Stag » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:30 pm

bear 73 wrote:
Parkinsons Perm wrote:
bear 73 wrote:There is a new plan keep the manager and get rid of players who are not good enough, this can only be done in the transfer windows so between each window the players have a chance to do their jobs.
The manager can only give them a game plan and once they cross that white line, the player is responsible for their actions


What's the chuffin game plan cos only you can see it?

Have a full squad, give the players information about their opponents, and relay the job expected of them, and always give your team mate a good pass, cross into good areas
and dont let their defenders settle, shoot at every opportunity while being aware of players around you.
Always pick your man up at free kicks, corners, throw ins, if you cant win a game , do not lose it


If all of that is ‘new’ then we have bigger problems than I thought :lol:
BH_Stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3057
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:21 am

Re: Clough in

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:11 pm

I was chatting to a Blade this morning and he said Sheff Utd played good football under Nigel Clough but after he left it was revealed NC had fallen out with quite a few players. I had a look at some of the comments from Sheff U fans after he left and some of the comments ring a few bells:

"The board had to sack Clough for his sheer incompetence at planning and building a team. From the moment McGuire left, he completely failed to build a defence with centre backs. I have never known any manager try to go a season without two if not three centre backs. It's one of the most important parts of any teams back-bone."

"Clough failed because he's a totally inadequate manager. When McGuire left he knew we needed at least one centre back. He even went out and signed one. What happens next is totally inexcusable. You cannot go 5 matches never mind a whole season without good reliable centre backs.
1) he signed a CB from Blackpool who clearly wasn't ready.
2) He signed a CB from Walsall, who should have been good enough but failed to manage him.
3) He failed with Collins. Not the best but better than those he ended up playing as they were not CB's
4) He signed Brayford to play the role he had done so brilliantly the previous season, only to waste him at CB
5) He played our most reliable midfielder at CB, ruining the midfield."

"The cup runs disguise just how poor we played at home. As many Blades fans have said, Clough brought in an excellent central defender in Andy Butler, but then fell out with him and loaned him to another club. He also refused to play our only established 6ft + defender, and instead put midfielders in the back line."
Tippy Tappy Football
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 10113
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:47 pm

bear 73 wrote:
Parkinsons Perm wrote:
bear 73 wrote:There is a new plan keep the manager and get rid of players who are not good enough, this can only be done in the transfer windows so between each window the players have a chance to do their jobs.
The manager can only give them a game plan and once they cross that white line, the player is responsible for their actions


What's the chuffin game plan cos only you can see it?

Have a full squad, give the players information about their opponents, and relay the job expected of them, and always give your team mate a good pass, cross into good areas
and dont let their defenders settle, shoot at every opportunity while being aware of players around you.
Always pick your man up at free kicks, corners, throw ins, if you cant win a game , do not lose it


First point of yours is have a full squad, we literally can't for the rest of the season so his "game plan" is out the window already.

A game plan is how you setup to your strengths (formation, style etc) . Short/long passing, prefer crosses out wide/play through the middle more. Allow a team to dominate possession and hit them fast and hard on the counter attack. How a set piece is being delivered and where to.

A match plan is tweaking the overall game plan to deal with/exploit the opposition. Be it focus down 1 side because they are weak there or don't put numbers there, or Smack it over the top because they can't head a ball. Or put corners to the edge of the box because all 11 are in or around the 6 yard area.

Your list is a bunch of "nice to haves". Perfect pass every time? give over were league 2. Shoot at every opportunity. Define opportunity. Players can shoot from the halfway line so should we shoot from 50 yards?
post meanings:
I know what I'm doing
Just guessing
You're an idiot and I'm poking you with a stick
User avatar
gazza1988
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 9544
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:23 pm
Location: Beeston, Nottingham

Re: Clough in

Postby five to three » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:57 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I was chatting to a Blade this morning and he said Sheff Utd played good football under Nigel Clough but after he left it was revealed NC had fallen out with quite a few players. I had a look at some of the comments from Sheff U fans after he left and some of the comments ring a few bells:

"The board had to sack Clough for his sheer incompetence at planning and building a team. From the moment McGuire left, he completely failed to build a defence with centre backs. I have never known any manager try to go a season without two if not three centre backs. It's one of the most important parts of any teams back-bone."

"Clough failed because he's a totally inadequate manager. When McGuire left he knew we needed at least one centre back. He even went out and signed one. What happens next is totally inexcusable. You cannot go 5 matches never mind a whole season without good reliable centre backs.
1) he signed a CB from Blackpool who clearly wasn't ready.
2) He signed a CB from Walsall, who should have been good enough but failed to manage him.
3) He failed with Collins. Not the best but better than those he ended up playing as they were not CB's
4) He signed Brayford to play the role he had done so brilliantly the previous season, only to waste him at CB
5) He played our most reliable midfielder at CB, ruining the midfield."

"The cup runs disguise just how poor we played at home. As many Blades fans have said, Clough brought in an excellent central defender in Andy Butler, but then fell out with him and loaned him to another club. He also refused to play our only established 6ft + defender, and instead put midfielders in the back line."


This worries me!
five to three
Reserve Team
Reserve Team
 
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:30 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby broomo » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:03 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I was chatting to a Blade this morning and he said Sheff Utd played good football under Nigel Clough but after he left it was revealed NC had fallen out with quite a few players. I had a look at some of the comments from Sheff U fans after he left and some of the comments ring a few bells:

"The board had to sack Clough for his sheer incompetence at planning and building a team. From the moment McGuire left, he completely failed to build a defence with centre backs. I have never known any manager try to go a season without two if not three centre backs. It's one of the most important parts of any teams back-bone."

"Clough failed because he's a totally inadequate manager. When McGuire left he knew we needed at least one centre back. He even went out and signed one. What happens next is totally inexcusable. You cannot go 5 matches never mind a whole season without good reliable centre backs.
1) he signed a CB from Blackpool who clearly wasn't ready.
2) He signed a CB from Walsall, who should have been good enough but failed to manage him.
3) He failed with Collins. Not the best but better than those he ended up playing as they were not CB's
4) He signed Brayford to play the role he had done so brilliantly the previous season, only to waste him at CB
5) He played our most reliable midfielder at CB, ruining the midfield."

"The cup runs disguise just how poor we played at home. As many Blades fans have said, Clough brought in an excellent central defender in Andy Butler, but then fell out with him and loaned him to another club. He also refused to play our only established 6ft + defender, and instead put midfielders in the back line."


For a bit of context Maguire left a week before the start of the season having told NC he was staying. The centre half he wouldn't play was Collins who told Maguire he should leave, was on 16k a week and was a disruptive influence who blamed anyone and everyone even when it was his mistake. Maguire was so good he had carried Collins for 2 seasons.

Andy Butler was signed from Walsall where he'd been captain. He couldn't handle the pressure of playing for a big club. Maybe a mistake to sign him, maybe a mistake to let him leave but NC had his reasons.

He signed Paddy McCarthy (i think that was his name) on loan from Crystal Palace, a lad who had been playing Premier League football but who showed arguably the worst form I've seen from a professional footballer ever.

Brayford played centre half quite a bit and did it well. They finished 5th, played Swindon in the play offs, smashed them all over the park at home, denied a stonewall penalty and lost 2-1 to a last minute counter attack when Bob Harris the left back left his man and then unforgivably didn't foul him on the halfway line.

Brayford was injured in that game by a shocking challenge. They then conceded 3 goals in the first 20 minutes of the away leg with some of the worst defending you'll ever see.

If Brayford wasn't injured they'd have made it to Wembley and Sheff Utd fans wouldn't be discussing his failings.

Could he and should he have signed better centre halves than Craig Alcock and Harrison McGahey? Probably. Is it as black and white as that. No.

In terms of Basham moving from midfield to defense and it ruining the midfield? Well Nige had a deal and personal terms agreed to bring in a player from Scotland for 300k to fill that gap but the board at Sheff Utd pulled the plug.

You might have heard of him? John McGinn.

Fine margins.
broomo
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:55 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby bellwhiff » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:13 pm

five to three wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I was chatting to a Blade this morning and he said Sheff Utd played good football under Nigel Clough but after he left it was revealed NC had fallen out with quite a few players. I had a look at some of the comments from Sheff U fans after he left and some of the comments ring a few bells:

"The board had to sack Clough for his sheer incompetence at planning and building a team. From the moment McGuire left, he completely failed to build a defence with centre backs. I have never known any manager try to go a season without two if not three centre backs. It's one of the most important parts of any teams back-bone."

"Clough failed because he's a totally inadequate manager. When McGuire left he knew we needed at least one centre back. He even went out and signed one. What happens next is totally inexcusable. You cannot go 5 matches never mind a whole season without good reliable centre backs.
1) he signed a CB from Blackpool who clearly wasn't ready.
2) He signed a CB from Walsall, who should have been good enough but failed to manage him.
3) He failed with Collins. Not the best but better than those he ended up playing as they were not CB's
4) He signed Brayford to play the role he had done so brilliantly the previous season, only to waste him at CB
5) He played our most reliable midfielder at CB, ruining the midfield."

"The cup runs disguise just how poor we played at home. As many Blades fans have said, Clough brought in an excellent central defender in Andy Butler, but then fell out with him and loaned him to another club. He also refused to play our only established 6ft + defender, and instead put midfielders in the back line."


This worries me!

It’s all a little bit of history repeating itself
Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier...

Samuel Johnson
User avatar
bellwhiff
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 18079
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:14 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:34 pm

Thanks Craig for the context.

broomo wrote:He signed Paddy McCarthy (i think that was his name) on loan from Crystal Palace, a lad who had been playing Premier League football but who showed arguably the worst form I've seen from a professional footballer ever.


Was Paddy McCarthy worse than Richard Nartey? He was a lot older. I note that he only played 6 more league games after Sheff United for Bolton and Preston. Managers can rightly claim the credit for good signings but must also carry the can for poor signings.

I went to watch Rotherham the other week and midfield player Hakeem Odoffin signed from Hamilton was on the bench. He's only made 3 sub apps this season. Were we in for him?

My main criticism of Nigel is that he should have moved on to his back up list of centre halfs (if he had one) much earlier and David Sharpe and JR should have chivvied him along. It was reckless and a massive gamble to wait for transfer deadline day. He also should not have been allowed to send Rollin Menayese out on loan until a fit replacement was in the building. I cannot imagine other Chairmen or Chief Execs would have allowed this to happen.
Last edited by Tippy Tappy Football on Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tippy Tappy Football
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 10113
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby adamstag » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:06 pm

I think the criticism of nartey is wide of the mark.

Whereas he certainly didn’t cover himself in any glory in the appearances before injury he’s not going to have been on the fringes of the burnley side for nothing.

Hopefully he comes back soon and makes a big difference
adamstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 9084
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:20 am

Re: Clough in

Postby broomo » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:58 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Thanks Craig for the context.

broomo wrote:He signed Paddy McCarthy (i think that was his name) on loan from Crystal Palace, a lad who had been playing Premier League football but who showed arguably the worst form I've seen from a professional footballer ever.


Was Paddy McCarthy worse than Richard Nartey? He was a lot older. I note that he only played 6 more league games after Sheff United for Bolton and Preston. Managers can rightly claim the credit for good signings but must also carry the can for poor signings.

I went to watch Rotherham the other week and midfield player Hakeem Odoffin signed from Hamilton was on the bench. He's only made 3 sub apps this season. Were we in for him?

My main criticism of Nigel is that he should have moved on to his back up list of centre halfs (if he had one) much earlier and David Sharpe and JR should have chivvied him along. It was reckless and a massive gamble to wait for transfer deadline day. He also should not have been allowed to send Rollin Menayese out on loan until a fit replacement was in the building. I cannot imagine other Chairmen or Chief Execs would have allowed this to happen.


McCarthy was a proven Premier League and international player, he was also Palaces captain. For him to come in and play the way he did was both unforseeable and unforgivable. A player of his experience isn't comparable to Nartey who is just starting out.

It can't be Sharpe or Radford who make the decision on who goes out on loan, the second they interfere in footballing decisions will be the second NC leaves. Menayesse left on loan when Perch was still fit and before Hewitt was seen to struggle. At that point letting him go wasn't as bad a decision as it now looks.

The truth is though no-one sees my posts as reasonably thought out and no-one, probably even you, arguably the most thoughtful and knowledgable posters on here, wants to hear mitigating circumstances or "defence" from me. It's not seen as knowledge it's seen as blind loyalty.

The knives are out and the ONLY thing that's going to stop that is results.
Everything he does or has done over his career so far is being pulled apart, analysed to death and given as reasons for what's going wrong now.
Recruitment (arguably the most successful element of his career to date), scouting, man management, lack of tactics, no game plan, poor substitutions, clueless interviews.

Nothing I say will make people sit up and think "oh yeah, he has a point"

3 points is what is needed and quickly.
broomo
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:55 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:35 pm

I'm with you on that Craig. We need a win on Tuesday even if it is a horrible performance.

I don't think the Menayese issue is interfering with a football decision. It's simply a Chief Exec/Chairman looking after the overall interests of the football club and saying that a player cannot go out on loan until a replacement is brought in which I think is a reasonable decision to make and which a manager would accept. If Nigel Clough wanted to release a key player just before the transfer window then surely he would understand that it cannot be done until a replacement has signed on the dotted line. How many times have we approached clubs in the past and been told that players may be available as soon as they signed a replacement which is the right way to do things.

If Nigel Clough wanted to release a good young player on a free transfer then you would expect a Chief Exec/Chairman to interfere and say that that the player can leave but only when the club receives the proper transfer fee for the player.
Tippy Tappy Football
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 10113
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Sedgwick » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:20 pm

Prepared to be made to look silly after a loss to port vale... :lol:

But Clough isn't going anywhere.

He's fully aware of the pressure and needs some results but I'm highly doubtful of a management change soon.

Semi expecting some sort of a "vote of confidence" to come out somewhere
Last edited by Sedgwick on Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sedgwick
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5480
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:01 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Clough in

Postby Topliss Turnstiles » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:32 pm

The club needs stability! I don't see who better is out there that we can get. We need to believe in Clough! He's had some rotten luck with injuries but when they're all back to full fitness, we'll start to look better! We can't keep sacking managers! It has got us nowhere, so let's get behind Clough!!
Topliss Turnstiles
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:35 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby diablo » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:00 pm

Sedgwick wrote:Prepared to be made to look silly after a loss to port vale... :lol:

But Clough isn't going anywhere.

He's fully aware of the pressure and needs some results but I'm highly doubtful of a management change soon.

Semi expecting some sort of a "vote of confidence" to come out somewhere



If we lose the next three games he will be gone , no Manager survives a record like he is producing at the moment. Personally I would be very disappointed if that happened but you have to be realistic in football , its a results game and if you don't produce positive results you get your marching orders and the Club finds someone new to replace you .
diablo
Reserve Team
Reserve Team
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:18 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Sedgwick » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:12 pm

diablo wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:Prepared to be made to look silly after a loss to port vale... :lol:

But Clough isn't going anywhere.

He's fully aware of the pressure and needs some results but I'm highly doubtful of a management change soon.

Semi expecting some sort of a "vote of confidence" to come out somewhere



If we lose the next three games he will be gone , no Manager survives a record like he is producing at the moment. Personally I would be very disappointed if that happened but you have to be realistic in football , its a results game and if you don't produce positive results you get your marching orders and the Club finds someone new to replace you .


I think he sort of knows he needs a few results to hang on. But I don't believe the club is looking for a replacement.

Genuinely think it's stick with him and sign a few get out of jail players in Jan
Sedgwick
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5480
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:01 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Clough in

Postby bear 73 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:37 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I was chatting to a Blade this morning and he said Sheff Utd played good football under Nigel Clough but after he left it was revealed NC had fallen out with quite a few players. I had a look at some of the comments from Sheff U fans after he left and some of the comments ring a few bells:

"The board had to sack Clough for his sheer incompetence at planning and building a team. From the moment McGuire left, he completely failed to build a defence with centre backs. I have never known any manager try to go a season without two if not three centre backs. It's one of the most important parts of any teams back-bone."

"Clough failed because he's a totally inadequate manager. When McGuire left he knew we needed at least one centre back. He even went out and signed one. What happens next is totally inexcusable. You cannot go 5 matches never mind a whole season without good reliable centre backs.
1) he signed a CB from Blackpool who clearly wasn't ready.
2) He signed a CB from Walsall, who should have been good enough but failed to manage him.
3) He failed with Collins. Not the best but better than those he ended up playing as they were not CB's
4) He signed Brayford to play the role he had done so brilliantly the previous season, only to waste him at CB
5) He played our most reliable midfielder at CB, ruining the midfield."

Will keep this short Sheff utd were in the bottom 3 of league 1 when he took over, they finished 7th , and reached the semi final of the FA cup, Beating, Aston Villa, Notts Forest, Fulham,
Charlton, not bad with a poor team.
The following season finishing 5th they were in the playoffs, and also reached the semi final of the league cup, against Tottenham Hotspur
They lost the playoffs 6-5 after a disastrous start, the cup runs plus the sales of Maguire, Murphy, Che Adams put millions in the bank.
Clough fell out with McCabe the Sheff Utd dictator, alas no more with the club, For a failing club money in the bank, 2 major cup semi finals, 1 playoff semi final in 18 months,
and with a Nigel Adkins the next season no cup runs, finishing 11th,in league 1 sacked after 1 season, What Clough did in 18 months in record books was a success
.He once more left a club in a far better state than he found it
in any record book was a success sacked" The cup runs disguise just how poor we played at home. As many Blades fans have said, Clough brought in an excellent central defender in Andy Butler, but then fell out with him and loaned him to another club. He also refused to play our only established 6ft + defender, and instead put midfielders in the back line."
bear 73
Assistant Manager
Assistant Manager
 
Posts: 1007
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:01 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby FarnieStag » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:33 pm

To me, Cloughie is the best signing we've made in a long long time. Things are awful at the moment but I can also remember very dark days during the first year or two of Ian Greaves' reign.
Sacking him now will be the worst decision Radford has ever made. You simply can't keep sacking and starting again. I know I'm in the minority on here, but I'd keep Nigel if we're relegated, I'm sure he'd get us back up again very quickly. Tin hat ready.
FarnieStag
Reserve Team
Reserve Team
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:15 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Captain Cunno » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:38 pm

No tin hat needed Farnie.....its a sensible post that will be shouted down by the regular few. Granted they have their opinions but opinions are like arseholes , everyone has one but some smell like turds
These are my opinions , if you don't like them I have others...
User avatar
Captain Cunno
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 4052
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:23 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Rob » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:18 pm

FarnieStag wrote:To me, Cloughie is the best signing we've made in a long long time. Things are awful at the moment but I can also remember very dark days during the first year or two of Ian Greaves' reign.
Sacking him now will be the worst decision Radford has ever made. You simply can't keep sacking and starting again. I know I'm in the minority on here, but I'd keep Nigel if we're relegated, I'm sure he'd get us back up again very quickly. Tin hat ready.


You may well be in a minority on here, but almost certainly not in the real world. I completely agree with you, given time he will turn it around.
Rob
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 7110
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:33 am

Re: Clough in

Postby scotsstag » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:27 pm

Rob wrote:
FarnieStag wrote:To me, Cloughie is the best signing we've made in a long long time. Things are awful at the moment but I can also remember very dark days during the first year or two of Ian Greaves' reign.
Sacking him now will be the worst decision Radford has ever made. You simply can't keep sacking and starting again. I know I'm in the minority on here, but I'd keep Nigel if we're relegated, I'm sure he'd get us back up again very quickly. Tin hat ready.


You may well be in a minority on here, but almost certainly not in the real world. I completely agree with you, given time he will turn it around.



+2
scotsstag
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:43 am
Location: SCOTLAND

Re: Clough in

Postby NEStag » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:33 pm

I really hope we get a result tonight and even if we don't that we stick with what we are doing with Clough.
Sacking him will get us nowhere and we'll just bring in another manager who will want to assemble his own squad and then we'll be here all over again this time next year. And all the while JR is writing cheques to former managers and those that aren't paying the bills are agitating for change.
What I would say is that Clough just needs to stop making quite as many excuses. He should just say - it's not come right yet, it will take time and please be patient.
NEStag
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:53 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Beano » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:35 pm

scotsstag wrote:
Rob wrote:
FarnieStag wrote:To me, Cloughie is the best signing we've made in a long long time. Things are awful at the moment but I can also remember very dark days during the first year or two of Ian Greaves' reign.
Sacking him now will be the worst decision Radford has ever made. You simply can't keep sacking and starting again. I know I'm in the minority on here, but I'd keep Nigel if we're relegated, I'm sure he'd get us back up again very quickly. Tin hat ready.


You may well be in a minority on here, but almost certainly not in the real world. I completely agree with you, given time he will turn it around.



+2


The most sensible option would be to stick with Clough, however I doubt he would survive a relegation to non league. I also doubt the Radford’s would bankroll us back up.

Let’s hope he can steady the ship until January and make some serious (and positive) moves in the transfer window.
User avatar
Beano
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2853
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby chip63 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:37 pm

That's a really good point about paying other managers we've sacked and their back room staff.
chip63
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2972
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:01 am

Re: Clough in

Postby Dan » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:51 pm

broomo wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Thanks Craig for the context.

broomo wrote:He signed Paddy McCarthy (i think that was his name) on loan from Crystal Palace, a lad who had been playing Premier League football but who showed arguably the worst form I've seen from a professional footballer ever.


Was Paddy McCarthy worse than Richard Nartey? He was a lot older. I note that he only played 6 more league games after Sheff United for Bolton and Preston. Managers can rightly claim the credit for good signings but must also carry the can for poor signings.

I went to watch Rotherham the other week and midfield player Hakeem Odoffin signed from Hamilton was on the bench. He's only made 3 sub apps this season. Were we in for him?

My main criticism of Nigel is that he should have moved on to his back up list of centre halfs (if he had one) much earlier and David Sharpe and JR should have chivvied him along. It was reckless and a massive gamble to wait for transfer deadline day. He also should not have been allowed to send Rollin Menayese out on loan until a fit replacement was in the building. I cannot imagine other Chairmen or Chief Execs would have allowed this to happen.


McCarthy was a proven Premier League and international player, he was also Palaces captain. For him to come in and play the way he did was both unforseeable and unforgivable. A player of his experience isn't comparable to Nartey who is just starting out.

It can't be Sharpe or Radford who make the decision on who goes out on loan, the second they interfere in footballing decisions will be the second NC leaves. Menayesse left on loan when Perch was still fit and before Hewitt was seen to struggle. At that point letting him go wasn't as bad a decision as it now looks.

The truth is though no-one sees my posts as reasonably thought out and no-one, probably even you, arguably the most thoughtful and knowledgable posters on here, wants to hear mitigating circumstances or "defence" from me. It's not seen as knowledge it's seen as blind loyalty.

The knives are out and the ONLY thing that's going to stop that is results.
Everything he does or has done over his career so far is being pulled apart, analysed to death and given as reasons for what's going wrong now.
Recruitment (arguably the most successful element of his career to date), scouting, man management, lack of tactics, no game plan, poor substitutions, clueless interviews.

Nothing I say will make people sit up and think "oh yeah, he has a point"

3 points is what is needed and quickly.


FWIW I do and I enjoy every one of your posts.
Dan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 9479
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Clough in

Postby Sedgwick » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:11 pm

Dan wrote:
broomo wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Thanks Craig for the context.

broomo wrote:He signed Paddy McCarthy (i think that was his name) on loan from Crystal Palace, a lad who had been playing Premier League football but who showed arguably the worst form I've seen from a professional footballer ever.


Was Paddy McCarthy worse than Richard Nartey? He was a lot older. I note that he only played 6 more league games after Sheff United for Bolton and Preston. Managers can rightly claim the credit for good signings but must also carry the can for poor signings.

I went to watch Rotherham the other week and midfield player Hakeem Odoffin signed from Hamilton was on the bench. He's only made 3 sub apps this season. Were we in for him?

My main criticism of Nigel is that he should have moved on to his back up list of centre halfs (if he had one) much earlier and David Sharpe and JR should have chivvied him along. It was reckless and a massive gamble to wait for transfer deadline day. He also should not have been allowed to send Rollin Menayese out on loan until a fit replacement was in the building. I cannot imagine other Chairmen or Chief Execs would have allowed this to happen.


McCarthy was a proven Premier League and international player, he was also Palaces captain. For him to come in and play the way he did was both unforseeable and unforgivable. A player of his experience isn't comparable to Nartey who is just starting out.

It can't be Sharpe or Radford who make the decision on who goes out on loan, the second they interfere in footballing decisions will be the second NC leaves. Menayesse left on loan when Perch was still fit and before Hewitt was seen to struggle. At that point letting him go wasn't as bad a decision as it now looks.

The truth is though no-one sees my posts as reasonably thought out and no-one, probably even you, arguably the most thoughtful and knowledgable posters on here, wants to hear mitigating circumstances or "defence" from me. It's not seen as knowledge it's seen as blind loyalty.

The knives are out and the ONLY thing that's going to stop that is results.
Everything he does or has done over his career so far is being pulled apart, analysed to death and given as reasons for what's going wrong now.
Recruitment (arguably the most successful element of his career to date), scouting, man management, lack of tactics, no game plan, poor substitutions, clueless interviews.

Nothing I say will make people sit up and think "oh yeah, he has a point"

3 points is what is needed and quickly.


FWIW I do and I enjoy every one of your posts.


Me too, worth reading for the insight. Especially about Clough's times at derby and Sheffield United
Sedgwick
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5480
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:01 pm
Location: Bristol

PreviousNext

Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Beyond The Pale, Fitzy499, gazza1988, nickrobo60, yellowstag and 36 guests