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Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Amber Andy » Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:49 am

Aspleystag wrote:Why can’t we give Mason a chance in pre season with Flinders as back up, then if it doesn’t work out get a higher division keeper in. It will save is a lot of money.
It's an option. I think NC first choice would be Pym, for his experience of being promoted from this league. The transfer fee and possibly Pym's wages being the stumbling block. There are lots of good keepers out there and I don't think we should pay over the odds to get Pym. The money saved could be used elsewhere.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby tillydog123 » Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:26 pm

Agree Pym was a good keeper but not outstanding in my humble view
Thought Flinders better overall
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Amber Andy » Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:25 pm

tillydog123 wrote:Agree Pym was a good keeper but not outstanding in my humble view
Thought Flinders better overall
Is Flinders under contract for us next season ?
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby part time pete » Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:38 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
tillydog123 wrote:Agree Pym was a good keeper but not outstanding in my humble view
Thought Flinders better overall
Is Flinders under contract for us next season ?



Options triggered:
Taylor Anderson
Scott Flinders
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Amber Andy » Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:14 pm

part time pete wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
tillydog123 wrote:Agree Pym was a good keeper but not outstanding in my humble view
Thought Flinders better overall
Is Flinders under contract for us next season ?



Options triggered:
Taylor Anderson
Scott Flinders
That's good, he has not let us down when called upon. I think it means less urgency to sign a replacement for Pym, although we will obviously need one before the season starts.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby stagmanrob » Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:40 am

Last time we gave a young youth team goalkeeper a regular chance in the first team, it was Jason White was it not? :shock:

Prior to that though, it was Darren Ward who was the best keeper we've had after Hitchcock.

So it would be a gamble going with Mason ; I suppose Cloughy would be the best judge there as he sees him regularly in training.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby yorkstag » Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:56 am

I agree it would be a gamble although by all accounts the lad is a great prospect.

From Nigel’s interviews it look like we will be bringing someone in.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby five to three » Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:20 am

We need an incoming goalkeeper. Mason perhaps this season needs to play in the lesser competitions if we want to give him some first team experience. Don't want to be relying on him too heavily yet.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby DoomMerchant » Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:21 am

So let's get this right, this forum is loaded with huge critics of everything Nigel Clough, recruitment, repeated failures, and especially previous goalkeepers - yet folks are willing to start with a rookie goalkeeper who we've never seen play?

What a bizarre lot some are.

I have no idea how good Mason is - I hope he's the next great English goalkeeper by the way. But I'd imagine that most can agree that the first time he drops one in his net there will be a massive enquiry. The first time he doesn't claim a cross there will be a pile up to suggest that he 'doesn't command his box'. By September/October it'll be 'Clough can't spot a keeper'; Simon Clough failed to find a suitable goalie; the club have no ambition 'will we ever get it right' - 'we don't want promotion', blah blah blah.

Club can't ever win as regards most things.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:39 am

DoomMerchant wrote:So let's get this right, this forum is loaded with huge critics of everything Nigel Clough, recruitment, repeated failures, and especially previous goalkeepers - yet folks are willing to start with a rookie goalkeeper who we've never seen play?

What a bizarre lot some are.

I have no idea how good Mason is - I hope he's the next great English goalkeeper by the way. But I'd imagine that most can agree that the first time he drops one in his net there will be a massive enquiry. The first time he doesn't claim a cross there will be a pile up to suggest that he 'doesn't command his box'. By September/October it'll be 'Clough can't spot a keeper'; Simon Clough failed to find a suitable goalie; the club have no ambition 'will we ever get it right' - 'we don't want promotion', blah blah blah.

Club can't ever win as regards most things.


He might be the next great Irish goalkeeper :lol:

Agree though, and the same with Flinders who is being judged on 4 games against Pym’s 42.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Ralphy » Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:14 am

I’m going early for goalkeeper to be the cry baby position for some on here come September 1st until Jan 1st lol :D :D
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Captain Cunno » Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:17 pm

stagmanrob wrote:Last time we gave a young youth team goalkeeper a regular chance in the first team, it was Jason White was it not? :shock:

Prior to that though, it was Darren Ward who was the best keeper we've had after Hitchcock.

So it would be a gamble going with Mason ; I suppose Cloughy would be the best judge there as he sees him regularly in training.



Like he's the best judge between Pym and Flinders who he rates lower than Pym.
This isn't enough for some folks on here though
These are my opinions , if you don't like them I have others...
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:26 pm

Ryan Sweeney has left Dundee after turning down a new deal.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby DoomMerchant » Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:27 pm

I reckon the people who see these players work and perform all day, every day will always be a better judge than every single individual on Stagsnet. Odd as that may seem.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Dave Wayne » Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:19 pm

DoomMerchant wrote:I reckon the people who see these players work and perform all day, every day will always be a better judge than every single individual on Stagsnet. Odd as that may seem.

Especially as that is the job they are employed to do !!
Now which opinion should I assume is correct ?
1) the man who has played over 600 league matches as a professional footballer, was capped 14 times for England, and has managed over 1400 professional games with a 40%+ win rate
2) Stags fans who have played Sunday league football at best and may have coached a youth team when their kids played.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby BH_Stag » Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:36 pm

It would be a quiet and boring world if everybody just neglected having their own opinion on players and instead just conformed to the view of whichever manager is in charge at the time.

Every single person who watches football has a view on who they would and wouldn’t pick, and who they do or don’t rate.

The idea that the manager always knows best and is seemingly incapable of error or poor judgement that some hold is as equally ‘strange’ as those who think they know better. It’s obvious that Clough has far more history in the game than anybody on here, but it doesn’t mean he’s always right. He didn’t rate Cook or Johnson - other managers do rate them and they go elsewhere and score for fun (not a debate about them by the way, just an example of how opinions differ in football, even amongst professional managers). It’s took him 18 months to sort the defence, and we’ve ran with 1 left back for 2 years. I’m sure Clough would be the first to say he isn’t always right - If he was he’d be at a lot higher level.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby bobbystagsfan » Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:46 pm

BH_Stag wrote:It would be a quiet and boring world if everybody just neglected having their own opinion on players and instead just conformed to the view of whichever manager is in charge at the time.

Every single person who watches football has a view on who they would and wouldn’t pick, and who they do or don’t rate.

The idea that the manager always knows best and is seemingly incapable of error or poor judgement that some hold is as equally ‘strange’ as those who think they know better. It’s obvious that Clough has far more history in the game than anybody on here, but it doesn’t mean he’s always right. He didn’t rate Cook or Johnson - other managers do rate them and they go elsewhere and score for fun (not a debate about them by the way, just an example of how opinions differ in football, even amongst professional managers). It’s took him 18 months to sort the defence, and we’ve ran with 1 left back for 2 years. I’m sure Clough would be the first to say he isn’t always right - If he was he’d be at a lot higher level.



If he didn't rate Johnson, why did he sign him? I don't think that was the case, it just never really worked out for him here.

Cook didn't even want to be here, I don't think it's 100% confirmed Clough didn't rate cook either.

It would be quiet if people stopped posting their opinions as facts :lol:
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby BH_Stag » Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:49 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
BH_Stag wrote:It would be a quiet and boring world if everybody just neglected having their own opinion on players and instead just conformed to the view of whichever manager is in charge at the time.

Every single person who watches football has a view on who they would and wouldn’t pick, and who they do or don’t rate.

The idea that the manager always knows best and is seemingly incapable of error or poor judgement that some hold is as equally ‘strange’ as those who think they know better. It’s obvious that Clough has far more history in the game than anybody on here, but it doesn’t mean he’s always right. He didn’t rate Cook or Johnson - other managers do rate them and they go elsewhere and score for fun (not a debate about them by the way, just an example of how opinions differ in football, even amongst professional managers). It’s took him 18 months to sort the defence, and we’ve ran with 1 left back for 2 years. I’m sure Clough would be the first to say he isn’t always right - If he was he’d be at a lot higher level.



If he didn't rate Johnson, why did he sign him? I don't think that was the case, it just never really worked out for him here.

Cook didn't even want to be here, I don't think it's 100% confirmed Clough didn't rate cook either.

It would be quiet if people stopped posting their opinions as facts :lol:


That may be the case, I’m not really fussed about debating the ins and outs of each individual case as you’d be here all day. The point is you don’t have to agree with manager just because he’s the manager and shut down any other conversation :lol:
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Dave Wayne » Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:32 pm

BH_Stag wrote:It would be a quiet and boring world if everybody just neglected having their own opinion on players and instead just conformed to the view of whichever manager is in charge at the time.

Every single person who watches football has a view on who they would and wouldn’t pick, and who they do or don’t rate.

The idea that the manager always knows best and is seemingly incapable of error or poor judgement that some hold is as equally ‘strange’ as those who think they know better. It’s obvious that Clough has far more history in the game than anybody on here, but it doesn’t mean he’s always right. He didn’t rate Cook or Johnson - other managers do rate them and they go elsewhere and score for fun (not a debate about them by the way, just an example of how opinions differ in football, even amongst professional managers). It’s took him 18 months to sort the defence, and we’ve ran with 1 left back for 2 years. I’m sure Clough would be the first to say he isn’t always right - If he was he’d be at a lot higher level.

I'm not suggesting for one minute that the manager is always right, and any new signing is always a a gamble.
However, the one thing I do trust an experienced manager and his staff on, is when he has 2 players for the same position in his squad that he is watching in training on a daily basis, he is going to know who is the best choice on a saturday afternoon.
I find it laughable that people who have seen Flinders play less than half a dozen times feel suitably qualified to suggest Clough is wrong in picking Pym over him.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Amber Andy » Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:18 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
BH_Stag wrote:It would be a quiet and boring world if everybody just neglected having their own opinion on players and instead just conformed to the view of whichever manager is in charge at the time.

Every single person who watches football has a view on who they would and wouldn’t pick, and who they do or don’t rate.

The idea that the manager always knows best and is seemingly incapable of error or poor judgement that some hold is as equally ‘strange’ as those who think they know better. It’s obvious that Clough has far more history in the game than anybody on here, but it doesn’t mean he’s always right. He didn’t rate Cook or Johnson - other managers do rate them and they go elsewhere and score for fun (not a debate about them by the way, just an example of how opinions differ in football, even amongst professional managers). It’s took him 18 months to sort the defence, and we’ve ran with 1 left back for 2 years. I’m sure Clough would be the first to say he isn’t always right - If he was he’d be at a lot higher level.

I'm not suggesting for one minute that the manager is always right, and any new signing is always a a gamble.
However, the one thing I do trust an experienced manager and his staff on, is when he has 2 players for the same position in his squad that he is watching in training on a daily basis, he is going to know who is the best choice on a saturday afternoon.
I find it laughable that people who have seen Flinders play less than half a dozen times feel suitably qualified to suggest Clough is wrong in picking Pym over him.
I agree they know who is doing it in training. However, sometimes the parent club of a lone player insist, as part of the lone agreement, that the player, plays if he is fit (I'm not saying that was the case with Pym). Secondly, when Flinders was called upon he looked solid.

I think the signing of Pym has hit difficulties, otherwise he would have signed by now.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Cleveland_Stag » Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:30 pm

DoomMerchant wrote:I reckon the people who see these players work and perform all day, every day will always be a better judge than every single individual on Stagsnet. Odd as that may seem.


Saying this to people when they give their opinions is a bit narrow minded. There’d be very little football discourse if everyone always abided by the opinions and choices made by football managers.

Like all managers, Clough has and will continue to make mistakes and some of us might call out the mistake before it plays out! Clough will also get things right despite some of us initially disagreeing with the choice he’s made. He lost us the playoff final when he picked a midfield of O’Toole, Longstaff, Quinn and Murphy for the playoff final and thought they were a suitable midfield for a playoff final at Wembley despite none of them having any legs. I’m sure a lot of the posters on here would have strongly disagreed with that team selection. But maybe we shouldn’t be allowed to display our disagreement with choices like that one and others because Clough’s a football manager and therefore knows better than us mere mortals!

Can’t just try to shutdown debate with “Clough is smarter than you and your opposing opinion”.

(I don’t think Flinders is better than Pym, for what it’s worth)
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby part time pete » Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:25 pm

Cleveland_Stag wrote:
DoomMerchant wrote:I reckon the people who see these players work and perform all day, every day will always be a better judge than every single individual on Stagsnet. Odd as that may seem.


Saying this to people when they give their opinions is a bit narrow minded. There’d be very little football discourse if everyone always abided by the opinions and choices made by football managers.

Like all managers, Clough has and will continue to make mistakes and some of us might call out the mistake before it plays out! Clough will also get things right despite some of us initially disagreeing with the choice he’s made. He lost us the playoff final when he picked a midfield of O’Toole, Longstaff, Quinn and Murphy for the playoff final and thought they were a suitable midfield for a playoff final at Wembley despite none of them having any legs. I’m sure a lot of the posters on here would have strongly disagreed with that team selection. But maybe we shouldn’t be allowed to display our disagreement with choices like that one and others because Clough’s a football manager and therefore knows better than us mere mortals!

Can’t just try to shutdown debate with “Clough is smarter than you and your opposing opinion”.

(I don’t think Flinders is better than Pym, for what it’s worth)


I think the issue with the play off midfield selection is do we know the fitness of your alternative selection. I know I don’t and suggest you don’t either.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Dave Wayne » Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:37 pm

Cleveland_Stag wrote:
DoomMerchant wrote:I reckon the people who see these players work and perform all day, every day will always be a better judge than every single individual on Stagsnet. Odd as that may seem.


Saying this to people when they give their opinions is a bit narrow minded. There’d be very little football discourse if everyone always abided by the opinions and choices made by football managers.

Like all managers, Clough has and will continue to make mistakes and some of us might call out the mistake before it plays out! Clough will also get things right despite some of us initially disagreeing with the choice he’s made. He lost us the playoff final when he picked a midfield of O’Toole, Longstaff, Quinn and Murphy for the playoff final and thought they were a suitable midfield for a playoff final at Wembley despite none of them having any legs. I’m sure a lot of the posters on here would have strongly disagreed with that team selection. But maybe we shouldn’t be allowed to display our disagreement with choices like that one and others because Clough’s a football manager and therefore knows better than us mere mortals!

Can’t just try to shutdown debate with “Clough is smarter than you and your opposing opinion”.

(I don’t think Flinders is better than Pym, for what it’s worth)

There is no doubting that Clough has made errors at times in both team selection and tactics, but if you read back, both myself and Doomy were commenting on people suggesting he was wrong to favour Pym over Flinders.
I have no issue with anyone calling NC out on decisions in relation to individual matches, but I think we have to accept that a combination of his knowledge and experience, plus seeing both players in training week in and week out, puts him in a far better position to decide who is the first choice keeper.
It would be a very poor manager to keep making that 'mistake' throughout the season, and his win percentage suggests he is far from poor.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby DoomMerchant » Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:08 pm

The Pym/Flinders is exactly what I mean (along with the other players who are in direct competition). It's not just Clough's opinion I'm sure. Pretty certain that a bloke of his character will listen very carefully to the thoughts of Gary Crosby, Andy Garner and Adam Collin (is he our current goalie coach?) on who they consider the better choice to play in goal.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2023-2024

Postby Dan » Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:16 pm

Kristian Dennis has joined Tranmere on a 2 year deal.
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