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Lucas Akins Chant

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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby ParisStag » Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:13 pm

gazza1988 wrote:ParisStag, I think what jpstags is trying to say is IF (big if) Akins had racially abused the crowd would you have said "he racially abused the fans the fans racially abused him, happens all the time move on"? I know you wouldn't, but it can come across as certain forms of abuse are ok, so long as I'm not affected by it. Which I appreciate is a view many people of all colours and creed have been guilty of in the past.



I don't think that's his point at all, but to be perfectly clear on what mine is - I've never in any post said I think any form of abuse is OK and I'm not responsible for explaining other people's misunderstandings so I'll leave it there.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby ParisStag » Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:20 pm

In November I posted on here as one of the only, if not the only black user on Stagsnet, to say I hoped the club would act on this, knowing they read the board. Nothing has happened and now the continuation of racist chanting at games is starting to affect the match day experience of both black and white fans. Very very poor from the club, but not too late for them to rectify.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby Pitkin » Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:19 pm

SeanieStag wrote:
part time pete wrote:
zod wrote:Can someone come up with an inoffensive translation of the chant?
I don't even know which song it is.


Same here, no idea which song people are talking about.


Me three. I've been reading this thread and I'm still none the wiser.



Well I've no idea how and why you haven't heard it however, it assumes all black men have large genitalia, and Lucas post coital, shall we say, strangled a woman with it.....
All very jolly for some, however its the most shameful thing I've heard at any football ground.
When anyone is singing it, and a drummer is starting it, and young boys are also singing it, i believe it needs banning. Do the club read this? Someone must do I'm sure, however I suppose another pre match drone from our resident MC should cover it off........
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby stag324 » Thu Feb 15, 2024 4:24 pm

ParisStag wrote:In November I posted on here as one of the only, if not the only black user on Stagsnet, to say I hoped the club would act on this, knowing they read the board. Nothing has happened and now the continuation of racist chanting at games is starting to affect the match day experience of both black and white fans. Very very poor from the club, but not too late for them to rectify.


On the above point, I would suggest you contact the club directly to make a complaint using your actual name rather than a screen name. Expecting them to act on a post from a screen name is a little niaive.

Regarding the chant it is racist, how anyone can disagree amazes me.

Football is an outlet for peoples views and it worries me that we have so many fans who chant this week in week out. As fans we need to call them and show them up for what they are.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby cassellswasmagic » Thu Feb 15, 2024 4:26 pm

I think I heard part of this chant on a recent vlog that a Mansfield fan puts out…decent vlogs tbh, however, if that bit I heard was that song it needs banning. I was also surprised with who was singing along to it. I do think some fans just sing, without actually thinking.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby HitchcocksShins » Thu Feb 15, 2024 4:37 pm

Is that the vlog where the young lad shows absolutely zero enthusiasm about Stags and actively seems to dislike being on camera at all. Very strange viewing.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby five to three » Thu Feb 15, 2024 4:39 pm

If such words were shouted out by an individual fan they would and should be banned at the very least. Players quite rightly have walked off when this has happened. Therefore that it is a song sung by members of the crowd is appalling and shameful. It must be stopped. The club are surely aware or do all the stewards who are there to protect and look after fans collude. It must stop. I am ashamed that this is allowed to happen at my football club.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby cassellswasmagic » Thu Feb 15, 2024 4:43 pm

HitchcocksShins wrote:Is that the vlog where the young lad shows absolutely zero enthusiasm about Stags and actively seems to dislike being on camera at all. Very strange viewing.

Yup.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby five to three » Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:05 pm

Five pages on this is enough. I have emailed the club.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby Scothie the Stag » Thu Feb 15, 2024 6:07 pm

I'd love for the chant to stop! Fingers crossed the club take action.

Going by the chat about it on Facebook, there are unfortunately several people that appear to be stuck a couple of generations in the past.
Last edited by Scothie the Stag on Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby PostmanPat » Thu Feb 15, 2024 6:21 pm

Dan wrote:The drummer needs telling NOT to start off the song in the first place as that’s when all the other morons follow suit. I’m amazed none have been arrested yet when you can see the police are filming them. It’s at least a section 5 public order offence bordering on aggravated racism.


That’s enough stagsnet for tonight after reading that comment :lol:
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby PostmanPat » Thu Feb 15, 2024 6:22 pm

five to three wrote:Five pages on this is enough. I have emailed the club.


Go you :D
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Feb 15, 2024 6:43 pm

PostmanPat wrote:
Dan wrote:The drummer needs telling NOT to start off the song in the first place as that’s when all the other morons follow suit. I’m amazed none have been arrested yet when you can see the police are filming them. It’s at least a section 5 public order offence bordering on aggravated racism.


That’s enough stagsnet for tonight after reading that comment :lol:


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/19 ... /5/enacted

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/19 ... es/enacted

Attached is the legislation outlining the criminal offence and the second attachment is the legislation which makes it racially aggravated.

Have a read of it and then post another laughing emoji if you still think the comment about its legality is laughable. Although the Acts appear complicated if you aren’t used to reading legal documentation, they are actually fairly easy to follow if you just work through them thinking about what the process of the circumstances are.

Anyone thinking it’s not a criminal offence to sing this ‘song’ should think again.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby PEAR CIDER » Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:03 pm

Wow some of the comments on that lol. Stagsnet full of snowflakes apparently.

Some right helmets on that fb group.

Always same person cropping up too
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby PostmanPat » Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:12 pm

PEAR CIDER wrote:Wow some of the comments on that lol. Stagsnet full of snowflakes apparently.

Some right helmets on that fb group.

Always same person cropping up too


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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby jpstags » Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:19 pm

ParisStag wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:ParisStag, I think what jpstags is trying to say is IF (big if) Akins had racially abused the crowd would you have said "he racially abused the fans the fans racially abused him, happens all the time move on"? I know you wouldn't, but it can come across as certain forms of abuse are ok, so long as I'm not affected by it. Which I appreciate is a view many people of all colours and creed have been guilty of in the past.



I don't think that's his point at all, but to be perfectly clear on what mine is - I've never in any post said I think any form of abuse is OK and I'm not responsible for explaining other people's misunderstandings so I'll leave it there.


There are quite a few songs that make me cringe. No one deserves to feel abused at a football match. My point is that you actually said fans abuse players and players abuse fans all the time end of, as if that makes it acceptable. I find this stance amazing.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby PEAR CIDER » Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:21 pm

PostmanPat wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:Wow some of the comments on that lol. Stagsnet full of snowflakes apparently.

Some right helmets on that fb group.

Always same person cropping up too


Sisco



Its a shame as hes actually a nice bloke.

Was referring to others
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby Martin Shaw » Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:56 pm

Scothie the Stag wrote:I'd love for the chant to stop! Fingers crossed the club take action.

Going by the chat about it on Facebook, there are unfortunately several people that appear to be stuck a couple of generations in the past.


https://www.facebook.com/groups/daniel. ... 694973870/
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby Dan » Thu Feb 15, 2024 8:12 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
Scothie the Stag wrote:I'd love for the chant to stop! Fingers crossed the club take action.

Going by the chat about it on Facebook, there are unfortunately several people that appear to be stuck a couple of generations in the past.


https://www.facebook.com/groups/daniel. ... 694973870/


If ever one thread shows how many morons follow one club this is it. My particular favourite is this one: “People finding at offensive when Akins doesn't himself” I mean that’s a cracker. I’m sure he’s asked Lucas if he likes the song. What black man wouldn’t like a song about him sleeping with a woman and killing her because of the size of his manhood. But apparently it’s just lefty snowflakes. They slag off stagsnet then post comments from here :lol: You couldn’t make it up. Thick as mince, but hardly surprising when you see some of the names on there.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby Martin Shaw » Thu Feb 15, 2024 8:19 pm

to anyone who thinks the song is appropriate, please take 5 minutes to read the following article:


‘It’s not a compliment, it’s racist’ — football culture and black players’ penises
by Jay Harris
Jan 19, 2023
https://theathletic.com/4099485/2023/01 ... ism-black/

“Willy Gnonto, Willy Gnonto / He eats spaghetti / He drinks Moretti / His gooseberry’s flipping massive.”

When Wilfried Gnonto scored for Leeds United in their 1-1 draw against West Ham United at the beginning of this month, it should have been a moment for him to cherish. Leeds have struggled for consistency this season and the now-19-year-old Italian forward has been a rare spark of excitement for the fans.

Gnonto’s first goal for the club was supposed to strengthen his bond with those supporters. However, a section of the crowd at Elland Road felt it appropriate to celebrate by singing, to the tune of La Bamba, about the supposed size of his penis.

Amad Diallo is excelling at Sunderland in the Championship, on loan from Manchester United. He has been subjected to the same treatment. Before the 3-0 victory over Millwall on December 3, the winger released a video on Sunderland’s social media channels asking for it to stop.

It didn’t.

Before the 2-1 defeat to Aston Villa last Friday, Leeds head coach Jesse Marsch put out a similar message regarding the Gnonto chant. It was however sung again after his two goals in the FA Cup replay win over Cardiff City, but not as loudly.

“I love how much the fans love him,” Marsch said. “Is there a way to modify it to be as passionate but more respectful? That’s what I would say.”

Don’t be surprised. This is far from the first time chants of this nature have been directed towards black players.

Shortly after Romelu Lukaku joined from Everton in the summer of 2017, Manchester United supporters started referring to him as their “Belgian scoring genius with a 24-inch penis”. Lukaku released a statement through the club that said “fans have meant well with their songs, but let’s move on together”. After that was ignored, his agent at the time, Mino Raiola, reiterated to The Times “he (Lukaku) would like this song to stop”.

When Ivan Toney was playing for Peterborough United in 2019, the now-Brentford striker requested “a new family version” of a chant about him that had similar lyrics to the ones sung more recently regarding Gnonto and Amad.

Don’t forget the fan who saw no problem hanging up an offensive banner of Divock Origi at the 2019 Champions League final between Liverpool and Tottenham Hotspur.

The supporter escaped unpunished until the banner reappeared at Liverpool’s Champions League group game away to the Belgian club Genk a few months later. He was temporarily suspended from attending Liverpool matches, but the ban was lifted after he agreed to attend a session with the club’s community programme and undergo an education course with the anti-discrimination group Kick It Out.

Black players are stepping forward to publicly voice their displeasure about these chants, so why are they being ignored?

There will be people who argue telling a black man he has a large penis is a compliment, but they do not understand, or maybe just don’t care, these chants are deeply offensive and racist.

Obioma Ugoala is a stage actor and the author of a book titled The Problem With My Normal Penis.

Ugoala says people need to be educated about the historical context of “the myth of the black penis”.

“This language dehumanises black players by saying that not only are they exceptional, but they are weird and animalistic,” he tells The Athletic. “That language was the very language that allowed the transatlantic slave trade to take place because of eugenics that said, ‘Actually, these people are less than the rest of us in America’ and, ‘You can’t have sex with a black man because they are beasts’.

“Once you’re made aware of it, you can no longer be ignorant. It shouldn’t be something that we’re having a continual conversation over. Are we going to say enough is enough?

“Why do we feel we need to keep using those chants? What is it satisfying in us to abuse a player in this way? Do you see them as a player who you support or do you see them as a tool or as a puppet that you use? Do you not see them as human?

“Unfortunately, it’s this inability to see the players as human that allows people to turn on our national team when we had that incident at Euro 2020 — because you have dehumanised them to a degree that they don’t deserve your compassion.”

Ugoala is referencing the most recent European Championship final between Italy and England. Three young black players, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho and Bukayo Saka, missed penalties as England lost in a shootout and were racially abused on social media afterwards.

Some people might perceive chants about having a big penis to be harmless by comparison, but they have the same negative impact.

During a League Two match between Barrow and Colchester United in November, the latter’s head coach Matt Bloomfield heard a “racially-motivated comment” from a home fan being directed towards one of his players. Bloomfield reported it to the fourth official and the police were notified.

Colchester forward Frank Nouble’s identity was not revealed at the time, but he now wants to publicly discuss the impact these comments have.

“The ball went out for a throw-in and a fan said, ‘Nouble — hopefully he can control it with his big black gooseberry’,” the former West Ham United and Ipswich Town striker tells The Athletic.

“After the game, the police came to our coach and asked me to come inside to the office of the Barrow manager. I was told there had been a chant about my penis and that they had found the individual on camera.”

The police arrested a 60-year-old man on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence. He was released on bail and the investigation found no reason to take further action.

“Those chants have lessened as the years have gone by, but five or six years ago they were constant about the size of your penis or what he has got hiding in his sock,” Nouble says.

“It doesn’t hurt you straight away because you think, ‘OK, it’s a bit of a joke for them’. It’s not damning in their eyes — if anything, (to them) it’s uplifting you. At the same time, there are historical connotations about it. My family and friends were saying this is a song that we don’t want to be hearing about.

“Whatever is chanted at you, you try to make it push you to your limits and outperform anything that’s said. But when you sit back and analyse the situation, especially now that I have got kids, I understand that these things can be hurtful and hit people’s state of mind. You realise that maybe this is not the right way to be celebrated in the sport that you play or in any walk of life.”

Zavon Hines started his career at West Ham and went on to play for clubs including Coventry City, Burnley and Southend United. He was forced to retire at the age of 30 because of injury and was recently appointed as the lead under-15s coach at West Ham’s academy.

Hines recalls hearing such chants during matches too and feeling “confused” why “fans are being racist towards players from the teams they support”.

“We were in a period where it felt like you couldn’t really say much,” he tells The Athletic. “If we react in a certain way, we get classed as an angry black man. But certain things are not a joke when it comes to your background and your personal life.

“It’s nothing to do with them. It’s personal and private. They wouldn’t want anyone to be speaking about a family member like that, but then to us, they will say it is a compliment.”

Chants about the size of your penis become even more difficult to deal with when they start to spread through a crowd, and beyond. How are you supposed to react when your colleagues, people who you thought were your friends, join in?

“It comes back into the changing rooms, so the boys (team-mates) are singing it in front of you, and some days you don’t want to hear it,” Nouble says.

“It was seen as a sense of endearment and again, that is down to education and everyone’s got different cultures. If anything, I could sense jealousy from the boys that, ‘Oh, Frank’s got a song he might think makes him a big character in the changing room’. I’m comfortable in my own skin, but the next person might not be. That’s where people could be more considerate.”

It is sad to hear Nouble admit his team-mates would sing such chants at him, but he feels like “we are living in two different generations in the space of five years”. The 31-year-old believes high-profile players being prepared to use their platforms to speak out about racism has helped to raise awareness and change attitudes. If a team-mate behaved in that way now, he says he would challenge them “without even thinking about it”.

Unfortunately, Nouble’s experiences are not a one-off.

“There was a young player who went out on loan and he was getting a few chants,” Nouble says. “He told me and he was kind of laughing, but I could see by his eyes he wasn’t really happy about it.

“But when you’re in an environment with a group of lads, it’s hard for people to come out and express how they feel. You don’t want to go against what the majority think. I just told him, ‘Look, whatever you don’t feel comfortable about, you tell them straight away’.”

Hines can recall one of his team-mates being mocked.

“There was one particular player in the dressing room and every time he got in the shower they would go and look, or ask him to take his towel off,” he says. “When it’s every single day, you’re basically picking on this person.

“You could see on his face, (he was thinking) ‘It’s enough, just let me be’. But there was never a moment where they asked, ‘Do you feel uncomfortable?’.”

“There was always a passing comment. People might think a passing comment is nothing, but that’s what hits the most. That sticks in the player’s mind. He is thinking every time he walks past he’s going to get that same comment. I’m still close with that player now and I know for a fact he hated it.”

The Football Association released a statement last week explaining it had informed clubs that “it considers the ‘Rent Boy’ chant to be a breach of the FA rules”. Last year, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) confirmed it considered that term a homophobic slur and therefore a hate crime.

The same clarification is needed for chants about black players’ penises.

Despite the CPS guidelines stating that racist chanting is “the repeated uttering of words or sounds threatening, abusive or insulting to another person because of that person’s colour, race, nationality or ethnic or national origin”, no action is yet being taken.

When contacted about this article by The Athletic, a spokesperson for the CPS said they would not able to answer which specific chants would constitute a hate crime and that they judge each case on a case-by-case basis. Should the police refer anything to the CPS, they would then make a decision based on their legal test — the two-stage Code for Crown Prosecutors. They pointed towards the legal guidance prosecutors would refer to when making a charging decision.

Premier League players powerfully took a knee before every match during the 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons to highlight racial inequality and addressing this issue is the next part of the journey to make football a more inclusive place.

Kick It Out has said it “would stress that racial stereotypes are harmful and offensive, irrespective of the intention to show support for a player” after Leeds fans were heard chanting about Gnonto as detailed at the start of this article, but there needs to be a greater willingness to tackle the problem from all of football’s key stakeholders.

“Maybe there should be a campaign where they have a short video that goes on TV,” Hines says. “If players explain their feelings, hopefully it will be a lot more impactful to people and they will understand.

“I’m just happy now there is room to actually speak up on these things and there are players, a lot braver than I probably was at the time, who actually want to say something. It’s getting a lot more airtime than it would have done before, which shows how quickly things can change.”

It feels unfair, though, to expect black players, who are the victims of these chants, to be solely responsible for educating people as to why they are offensive. Surely they should be protected and not forced to constantly relive that trauma?

“I don’t think that is an easy thing to ask a player,” Nouble says. “It’s difficult, but I would be prepared to do it and I would encourage other people to do the same.

“It’s a crazy world we live in that we allow certain things to happen. We wait for someone to really be affected by it mentally or, God forbid, do something to themselves for us to realise that this is terrible.”

It is important to recognise this issue is not just restricted to football.

Ugoala says he felt compelled to write The Problem With My Normal Penis by what he has experienced as an actor and in his private life.

“But I also have lots of black friends who see it as the one bit of social currency they have,” he says, “so they play up to that perceived social power: ‘I’m the black guy and I could take your white girlfriend because of my big black penis’.

“That is why I feel like we need to extend a bit of grace towards these white fans because they might say, ‘I’ve got a black friend who says they don’t mind being called that and actually, they talk about it’. How do you deal with that? When they are witnessing black people in their lives who are sort of using that currency and their black male sexuality in that way? It’s something that we have to be mindful of.”

An underlying problem connected to these chants is the lack of diversity within crowds at stadiums in England.

According to a YouGov poll in August 2021, 33 per cent of ethnic minority fans said they had personally experienced racist abuse in football grounds, 38 per cent witnessed others being targeted and 79 per cent were concerned they will see players receive abuse.

Until stadiums become more inclusive and safe environments for everybody, these songs will continue to filter through.

“Sometimes people say, ‘It’s not all the fans who are doing it’. But if only 10 per cent chant and the rest don’t do anything (about it), it doesn’t matter,” Ugoala says. “You didn’t turn around and say, ‘Don’t do that’, or, ‘What are you doing? We don’t accept that in our stadium’.

“It’s incumbent on all of us as fans to say we won’t stand for that. That is how these chants are allowed to go on. People join in because it is easier to go with the flow than call it out.

“We need to decide if we want an easy choice or the right choice. Do we want to make our black fans and our black athletes feel comfortable?”
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby ParisStag » Thu Feb 15, 2024 11:49 pm

The club really have no excuse now. They've been emailed and tweeted today to inform them of the song, which I don't believe for a second they weren't already aware of.

Let's now see how they respond.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby Captain Cunno » Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:56 am

PostmanPat wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:Wow some of the comments on that lol. Stagsnet full of snowflakes apparently.

Some right helmets on that fb group.

Always same person cropping up too


Sisco



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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby yaxhamstag » Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:05 am

five to three wrote:Five pages on this is enough. I have emailed the club.

:clap: Good for you. I can’t get to games these days so have not heard the chant, but it sounds disgusting. It’s amazing that nothing has been done to date on this. Be interesting to see how the club reacts.
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby Pitkin » Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:04 pm

yaxhamstag wrote:
five to three wrote:Five pages on this is enough. I have emailed the club.

:clap: Good for you. I can’t get to games these days so have not heard the chant, but it sounds disgusting. It’s amazing that nothing has been done to date on this. Be interesting to see how the club reacts.


As I said........Zilch.....

Except Alan the drone will wheel his usual patter out on Sat
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Re: Lucas Akins Chant

Postby PEAR CIDER » Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:23 pm

Pitkin wrote:
yaxhamstag wrote:
five to three wrote:Five pages on this is enough. I have emailed the club.

:clap: Good for you. I can’t get to games these days so have not heard the chant, but it sounds disgusting. It’s amazing that nothing has been done to date on this. Be interesting to see how the club reacts.


As I said........Zilch.....

Except Alan the drone will wheel his usual patter out on Sat


well at least he is doing something, its better than nothing...

I noticed the song was sung twice on Saturday and not many joined in to be fair. Saying that, we were quite quiet in general on Saturday.
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