Wombles fred sponsored by January blues

[Martin Shaw]

Bowery and Quinn suspended for one game

[Suttonian]

Since we are on refs and ref rules can anyone explain to a very old supporter what is supposed to be the function of the forth official. This is a genuine question. In my day the ref made all the decisions but the 2 linesman could draw his attention to infringements that he may have missed. Plus of course balls out of play and off sides.

I've done 4th official quite a few times and it really is a thankless task. Your main role (at an amateur level) is to control the two benches, administer substitutions, keep a full match record and as 4th you are the Reserve referee so you need to be ready to go on if the ref gets injured. At pro level the 4th is miked up so can offer support for on field decisions. In reality you just get moaned at by the benches and supporters for 2 hours, the easiest thing to do was just agree with them, it was pointless even trying to explain referee's decision as invariably the sidelines weren't really interested in explanations

Good update Rob. I cannot fully why Coaches and their back room staff have a right rant and rave at the 4th official as if they’ve made the decisions on the pitch .

Good updates just like you say.

Interesting at professional level that the 4th official is miked up to the ref. I know this is the Wimbledon thread, but against Sutton the physio was called onto the pitch twice to administer treatment but both times the player didn't leave the pitch before the game was restarted. Not for the first time over the last couple of years the game was restarted with an uncontested bounce up for the team with the injured player instead of the team in possession, which the players pointed out. Giving the ref the benefit of the doubt you could say the first time was an oversight but shouldn't the 4th official have reminded him of the rule so it wouldn't be repeated? The whole thing seems like the officials are more concerned about covering each others backs which allows decisions that have an adverse effect on the game to compound , rather than communicating an error and applying the rules properly.

In every EFL match the referee, both assistant referees and the 4th official have all achieved promotion to a good level to be employed by PGMOL so presumably know the rules. Likewise coaching staff and players should know the rules of their job plus they get made aware of rule changes ahead of any new season but are totally ignored when anything is queried during a game. It's hard to have sympathy when everything is so inconsistent not just between different referees but between similar situations in the same match.

[tillydog123]

Going to mighty interesting these next few weeks
It’s either going to get worse or better nobody can call it ……cruel injuries this season and last ….old Sandy Pate and the Bird played virtually every game!!!

[Martin Shaw]

I know this is the Wimbledon thread, but against Sutton the physio was called onto the pitch twice to administer treatment but both times the player didn't leave the pitch before the game was restarted. Not for the first time over the last couple of years the game was restarted with an uncontested bounce up for the team with the injured player instead of the team in possession, which the players pointed out. Giving the ref the benefit of the doubt you could say the first time was an oversight but shouldn't the 4th official have reminded him of the rule so it wouldn't be repeated?

when the two Sutton players were down with a clash of heads, it was correct that they didn't have to leave the field of play for 30 seconds.

What was not correct was that play was restarted with Sutton possession, when the Stags had been in possession. An error.

[Suttonian]

Cheers Martin. If that's the rule for a head injury then fair enough.

[gazza1988]

Cheers Martin. If that's the rule for a head injury then fair enough.

Football has, quite rightly, taken a "better safe than sorry" approach to head injuries. Leaves it open to late abuse but there's been a few head injuries and concussions that had the game not been stopped and they got up and headed the ball could be horrific.

[Rob]

Yes it's only keepers, players from the same team who collide, players injured in a foul that results in a card and a player injured following a penalty award who is the taker that don't have to go off.

[Suttonian]

Agree with that gazza. That's in line with other contact sports. I was just unaware that it is an exception to the player leaving the field rule, so was everyone around me at the time. One of the 4 officials should have realised Mansfield were in possession at the time though.

I reckon you could open a whole new thread for answering these questions, Rob

[gazza1988]

Rob's Ramblings on Referees?

[Amber Andy]

Since we are on refs and ref rules can anyone explain to a very old supporter what is supposed to be the function of the forth official. This is a genuine question. In my day the ref made all the decisions but the 2 linesman could draw his attention to infringements that he may have missed. Plus of course balls out of play and off sides.

I've done 4th official quite a few times and it really is a thankless task. Your main role (at an amateur level) is to control the two benches, administer substitutions, keep a full match record and as 4th you are the Reserve referee so you need to be ready to go on if the ref gets injured. At pro level the 4th is miked up so can offer support for on field decisions. In reality you just get moaned at by the benches and supporters for 2 hours, the easiest thing to do was just agree with them, it was pointless even trying to explain referee's decision as invariably the sidelines weren't really interested in explanations

Thing is Rob does the fourth officials job, when keeping the two benches in control, include winking and smiling at them, allegedly ?

[Rob]

Since we are on refs and ref rules can anyone explain to a very old supporter what is supposed to be the function of the forth official. This is a genuine question. In my day the ref made all the decisions but the 2 linesman could draw his attention to infringements that he may have missed. Plus of course balls out of play and off sides.

I've done 4th official quite a few times and it really is a thankless task. Your main role (at an amateur level) is to control the two benches, administer substitutions, keep a full match record and as 4th you are the Reserve referee so you need to be ready to go on if the ref gets injured. At pro level the 4th is miked up so can offer support for on field decisions. In reality you just get moaned at by the benches and supporters for 2 hours, the easiest thing to do was just agree with them, it was pointless even trying to explain referee's decision as invariably the sidelines weren't really interested in explanations

Thing is Rob does the fourth officials job, when keeping the two benches in control, include winking and smiling at them, allegedly ?

No that's not something I'd recommend and I have no doubt he will receive feedback for it, but the club will get nowhere with the complaint. They call the officials black and blue the whole 90 minutes and get upset when the 4th gives a bit back, even if just by facial expression. Now had the official been abusive towards them then that would be different - winking and smiling, whilst annoying and unprofessional, isn't abusive and won't be punished. I'm afraid putting in a complaint signed by all those on the bench is futile - it won't get us anywhere. It's like fans who abuse players and then complain when a player gives them some back. These officials are human and I know after 90 minutes with some managers I was about ready for launching into them

[halifaxstag]

I know this is the Wimbledon thread, but against Sutton the physio was called onto the pitch twice to administer treatment but both times the player didn't leave the pitch before the game was restarted. Not for the first time over the last couple of years the game was restarted with an uncontested bounce up for the team with the injured player instead of the team in possession, which the players pointed out. Giving the ref the benefit of the doubt you could say the first time was an oversight but shouldn't the 4th official have reminded him of the rule so it wouldn't be repeated?

when the two Sutton players were down with a clash of heads, it was correct that they didn't have to leave the field of play for 30 seconds.

What was not correct was that play was restarted with Sutton possession, when the Stags had been in possession. An error.

The ref probably ruled that Sutton were in possession due to the fact that the Mansfield player (Maris?) had headed it back towards the penalty area. Debatable.

[halifaxstag]

Since we are on refs and ref rules can anyone explain to a very old supporter what is supposed to be the function of the forth official. This is a genuine question. In my day the ref made all the decisions but the 2 linesman could draw his attention to infringements that he may have missed. Plus of course balls out of play and off sides.

I've done 4th official quite a few times and it really is a thankless task. Your main role (at an amateur level) is to control the two benches, administer substitutions, keep a full match record and as 4th you are the Reserve referee so you need to be ready to go on if the ref gets injured. At pro level the 4th is miked up so can offer support for on field decisions. In reality you just get moaned at by the benches and supporters for 2 hours, the easiest thing to do was just agree with them, it was pointless even trying to explain referee's decision as invariably the sidelines weren't really interested in explanations

Thing is Rob does the fourth officials job, when keeping the two benches in control, include winking and smiling at them, allegedly ?

I know Clough said it was winking and smiling but get the impression it was more than that but wasn’t willing to say in public. Presumably

No that's not something I'd recommend and I have no doubt he will receive feedback for it, but the club will get nowhere with the complaint. They call the officials black and blue the whole 90 minutes and get upset when the 4th gives a bit back, even if just by facial expression. Now had the official been abusive towards them then that would be different - winking and smiling, whilst annoying and unprofessional, isn't abusive and won't be punished. I'm afraid putting in a complaint signed by all those on the bench is futile - it won't get us anywhere. It's like fans who abuse players and then complain when a player gives them some back. These officials are human and I know after 90 minutes with some managers I was about ready for launching into them

I know Clough said it was winks and smiles but get the impression it was more than that but wasn’t willing to say in public. Presumably an official complaint could result in him not officiating us again, although from what I can see he rarely does. Most of his matches seem to be in the SE either as Assistant or 4th Official. He hasn’t refereed a FL game.
Incidentally Will Finnie also booked Andy Garner the last time he refereed us (Grimsby away) when Clough was questioning the ref about a blatant foul on Oates that the 4th official had seen.
I know it’s a thankless job but I hope we never have to have either of them (particularly the referee) officiate us again.

[robbingdog]

So rob, are you saying that it’s ok for a 4th official to act sarcastically
towards a bench but when a player has a decision go against him and sarcastically claps the
Referee he should get booked?

[Suttonian]

Rob's Ramblings on Referees?

The first post could set the tone by containing a link to the part of Saturday's commentary when Martin Shaw shouts 'Referee you are a disgrace to your profession'

[Rob]

So rob, are you saying that it’s ok for a 4th official to act sarcastically
towards a bench but when a player has a decision go against him and sarcastically claps the
Referee he should get booked?

I didn't say it was OK, I said it was unprofessional, he should not have done it and that he is likely to be briefed accordingly. No player would be booked for smiling or winking at a referee - the 4th did not sarcastically applaud Clough so that's a false equivalence. My point is, which I thought I'd made clear, is in my view the complaint is futile.

[part time pete]

The referee (Mr Finney) apparently was the official at the Newport vs Stags game two years ago when JJ had the guy in the headlock and the referee awarded a soft late penalty to give Newport a late equaliser.

It seems everytime he is the ref for our matches something happens.

https://stagsnet.net/match/reports/view ... tchid=1143

[robbingdog]

Can you refuse to have a ref ref our game

[Martin Shaw]

Can you refuse to have a ref ref our game

no

[Tippy Tappy Football]

The referee (Mr Finney) apparently was the official at the Newport vs Stags game two years ago when JJ had the guy in the headlock and the referee awarded a soft late penalty to give Newport a late equaliser.

It seems everytime he is the ref for our matches something happens.

https://stagsnet.net/match/reports/view ... tchid=1143

You cannot blame the ref in that game. The Stags missed loads of good chances and then Oli Hawkins and JJ were silly to get involved with the WWF Wrestling.