High press, formation and moving the ball quickly

[Showaddywaddy]

Where has the high press gone from our game? Winning the ball back high up the pitch was key to our style of play and was really successful but it seems we have moved away from this, whether consciously or unconsciously. Opposition seem to have a bit more time to either clear the ball or play out of trouble than we were allowing them earlier in the season.

I’m starting to lose track of our formation now, the diamond was hugely successful earlier in the season but recently we’ve had two holding players in the middle to allow Cargill and Brunt to both be in the side. Last night if I saw it right it was more of a 4-1-3-2 to start with, Reed holding but then a block of Lewis, Quinn and Maris and Keillor-Dunn and Akins up top. If it was the diamond and Maris was at the tip then it wasn’t always obvious as they all looked quite deep. Brunt is a very classy looking player and I’m sure he will at least go on to play regularly at Championship level but his number of clear mistakes that has equated to lost points has probably now cost him his place in the starting eleven for a while, I think Clough eluded to that post match. In Brunt’s defence he looked totally lost at right back and not at all comfortable there.

I think it was Musings who pointed out on the scorethread that we seem somewhat sluggish in moving the ball now. Reed has been a case in point for several weeks, he’s now taking an extra touch or three and playing the easier pass rather than trusting his ability and spraying the ball all over the place as he was earlier in the season. Is this down to the pitch, confidence or a combination of the two? He’s certainly not the only one doing it, Cargill is sometimes slow to release the ball from the back too. Last night it was Flint who at least tried to keep things moving sharply from the back and hit a couple of excellent cross field balls despite the conditions, admittedly some didn’t find their target but there was at least an attempt to get us on the front foot sharply.

Up top Akins looks absolutely shattered at the moment, he has been absolutely outstanding in several games this season, was putting the ball in the back of the net, linking up play and bullying defenders, for a few games now nothing is sticking for him, he doesn’t look a threat in front of goal and he has been comfortably dealt with by the opposition. I wonder if he’s still struggling after the eye injury and just in general needs a rest or some more persistent support up top. I’m hoping our one main striker target turns into two. Gregory would be a great fit at the moment but I think we need someone to partner him to allow DKD to do his thing at the head of the diamond.

No need to panic just yet but we need to find a way of getting back to some of the things we were doing so incredibly well earlier in the season where sides just couldn’t live with us.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

Some good points there and not easy ones to answer.

I think the heavier pitches and the winter months undoubtedly play a part but we have also become very predictable in the way that we play. This makes it easier for teams to contain us as they know how the moves are likely to develop and which players will be trying to make the breaks.

We have to remember that high energy play is more draining on heavy pitches which in turn leads to tired squads. I am confident our performances will improve as the weather picks up and we can once again leave teams chasing shadows. The question is ‘how far will we have dropped before that happens and will the gap be too big?’.

In the meantime I hope we get a couple of players in to share the load and give others the chance of a rest.

[stag324]

Some very good points and I agree with most of them

My observation is that we now seem to set up to counter the opposition rather than set up to attack the opposition.

Last night should have been about taking the game to Sutton but we allowed them to dictate everything.

Hopefully the County game should be a big enough incentive to NC and the players to get our season back on track

[stagmanrob]

Some very good points and I agree with most of them

My observation is that we now seem to set up to counter the opposition rather than set up to attack the opposition.

Last night should have been about taking the game to Sutton but we allowed them to dictate everything.

Hopefully the County game should be a big enough incentive to NC and the players to get our season back on track

If that is the case that we are trying to counter the opposition (I can't say for certain whether that is a tactic beyong deployed) then we don't have the players or squad capability to do it.

Counter-attacking teams require pace. I honestly think as good as the squad is (arguably the best it's been in my lifetime as a supporter in terms of depth of quality) it is quite possibly the slowest I have ever seen in terms of pace too.

[Stephen]

Its been slow for some time and thats why Oates used to make such a difference, and Swan when he gets 5 minutes here and there. Still the best side ive ever seen is the 01/02 Dearden/Watkiss team, that will take some beating for me, Lawrence and Corden on the wings ripping teams a new one, a quality striker like Greenacre, those were the days

[Martin Shaw]

I think it's difficult to high press a team when they are not playing out from the back. Sutton got men behind the ball but basically cleared it forward at every opportunity always leaving one or two men forward.

[stagmanrob]

Its been slow for some time and thats why Oates used to make such a difference, and Swan when he gets 5 minutes here and there. Still the best side ive ever seen is the 01/02 Dearden/Watkiss team, that will take some beating for me, Lawrence and Corden on the wings ripping teams a new one, a quality striker like Greenacre, those were the days

Good team in terms of the XI....but we were lucky we didn't have the kind of injuries back then that we are getting now.

Take one or two of those players you named out of the team for the length of time we have lost Kilgour, Hewitt, Macca, Oates etc, and there's no way we'd go over half a season with only two losses in the league.

That's why for me, this squad is overall the best we have had.

It still is incredibly slow though, especially now we only have Swan with a bit of pace.

[Stephen]

Yeah agree with the depth you speak of, if i remember corectly Lawrence broke his arm around January? I think thats why we got Sellars in and i think a young Adam Murray got us over the line with some vital goals.

[James]

The problem at the minute in my eyes are the full backs, especially if we're trying to play a diamond.

Almost all of our width comes from them, so Bowery & whoever is playing left back isn't working.

[victor A block]

We push higher, quicker with more momentum with Clarke in the side. As soon as he gets it he's on the front foot. Been proven all season when he plays.
If he can't play 2 full games in a week ( this hasn't been explained ) then he should be starting them. As a side note Maris ( who was very quiet last night apart from the goal ) plays better with Clarke next to him.

For me we should go back to the diamond with Reed, Clarke, Maris and Lewis (or Quinn) and try DKD with Swan up top. That would give the pace and momentum. Yes, we would lose Akins holding up the ball but he hasn't done that so well anyway for weeks.
Bowery, Flint, Cargill, Macca at the back.

[Cleveland_Stag]

It seems obvious to me why we aren’t moving the ball as quickly as we used to and why we aren’t creating many chances. What we have at our disposal at the moment is so one paced. Last night you had Akins and KD up top, Maris in the hole, Quinn and Lewis providing width. There’s absolutely nothing powerful and explosive there at all. In good conditions on a nice pitch you aren’t concerned about the lack of pace though because those players are more capable of quickly knocking the ball around than most at this level. However, we’re in the dog days of winter now where we’re playing on rubbish pitch most weeks (especially at home!) in bad weather. All these slow but technically proficient players we have aren’t going to be as effective on bad pitches. We’re seeing it now.

We really do need one or two really penetrative forwards players up front and/or out wide who can carry the ball and run beyond Akins when he’s holding the ball up to stretch other teams, which then provides space for our technical players. But yeah, at the minute we’re a talented but somewhat flawed team because we only have one way of playing and it’s not going to be nearly as effective on bad pitches (it’s not a coincidence we don’t score goals at home).

[Chrisuknottm]

Maybe some one can give a logical explanation why Clarke isn't the first name on the team sheet every game.

Even if we only get 60 minutes from him to protect him from injury and himself it's got to be better than the alternatives.

There's just no creativity in the side and everyone is happy to pass the ball back or play pretty triangles but there's no one at the moment killing and threatening defences.

[Bradders]

I don't understand all the gloomy post mortems. Whatever your opinion on the tactics, Sutton were going to be no pushovers, and the match came down to one very silly defensive mistake.

At the other end, the tactics succeeded in getting the ball in the net once, then putting a goal on a plate for our main striker. The rest of the time we had almost all of the possession, mostly high up the pitch.

Unless you're saying that Clough's instructions included asking the players to deliberately miss obvious chances, the tactics worked. What went wrong were a few individual failings.
Had Brunt and Swan done their jobs properly for a few seconds more, there would be no discussion about failed tactics. Which means that it wasn't the tactics at fault.

[pemill]

I don't understand all the gloomy post mortems. Whatever your opinion on the tactics, Sutton were going to be no pushovers, and the match came down to one very silly defensive mistake.

At the other end, the tactics succeeded in getting the ball in the net once, then putting a goal on a plate for our main striker. The rest of the time we had almost all of the possession, mostly high up the pitch.

Unless you're saying that Clough's instructions included asking the players to deliberately miss obvious chances, the tactics worked. What went wrong were a few individual failings.
Had Brunt and Swan done their jobs properly for a few seconds more, there would be no discussion about failed tactics. Which means that it wasn't the tactics at fault.

In general I agree, I didn't think we played that badly, we were attacking and in the main dominated the game. In the end it came down to one school boy error.

With respect to Swan he doesn't get enough game time, strikers especially need to get their 'eye in', it's a big ask for someone to play a few minutes here and there and bury the first chance they get - at least he was there to have the chance to score. Had Swan been afforded the game time others get, Akins for instance, he'd be fully in scoring mode. Swan makes good runs which are rarely spotted by anyone else in the team but he has pace and presses agressively.

[cassellswasmagic]

I don't understand all the gloomy post mortems. Whatever your opinion on the tactics, Sutton were going to be no pushovers, and the match came down to one very silly defensive mistake.

At the other end, the tactics succeeded in getting the ball in the net once, then putting a goal on a plate for our main striker. The rest of the time we had almost all of the possession, mostly high up the pitch.

Unless you're saying that Clough's instructions included asking the players to deliberately miss obvious chances, the tactics worked. What went wrong were a few individual failings.
Had Brunt and Swan done their jobs properly for a few seconds more, there would be no discussion about failed tactics. Which means that it wasn't the tactics at fault.

In general I agree, I didn't think we played that badly, we were attacking and in the main dominated the game. In the end it came down to one school boy error.

With respect to Swan he doesn't get enough game time, strikers especially need to get their 'eye in', it's a big ask for someone to play a few minutes here and there and bury the first chance they get - at least he was there to have the chance to score. Had Swan been afforded the game time others get, Akins for instance, he'd be fully in scoring mode. Swan makes good runs which are rarely spotted by anyone else in the team but he has pace and presses agressively.

Good post. When Swan plays, I like the runs he’s trying to make, however none of his teammates seem to be on that wavelength unfortunately.

[Bradders]

Swan does make good runs, and the encouraging thing is that he gets into scoring positions. But last night he had a perfect cross straight onto his head with an open goal in front. Maris also had similar and missed. The difference is that Swan is playing as striker.

The striker's stock in trade is coolness in front of goal, and the ability to get the ball on target even if it's the only opportunity in the whole match. Hence him being fairly criticised and Maris getting away with it. Good runs are a handy extra, as long as they don't take anything away from the main job.

As for Brunt, he may have been not playing his favourite position. But Clough wouldn't expect him to lose his head because of being out wider than preferred, so I don't blame the tactics for his mistake.

[bigalstag1]

The game is not about possession though, is it, it's about scoring goals.If it was about keeping the ball, we'd win nine out of 10 matches, but tapping it sideways and backwards on the half way line at home, is not bringing us the required points we need.
We might have won the possession stats last night, but only created about 3- 4 clear cut chances in the whole 103 minutes that we played.

[stag324]

It is not just last night though. We aren't playing great at the moment and the majority of us can see that. I am sure Clough and the players know it also.

A win on saturday will massively boost the squads morale and then if the County game isn't enough to motivate the players, I don't know what will.

We are 3rd in the league and I would take that at the end of the season but i hate this agony that we have to go through every season with the Stags. I loved our early season form when we looked like we would steam roll the league....lets get back to that

[Stephen]

Is everybody including Clough going to pretend that for the 2nd home game in a row Akins missed a free header from the centre of the goal from 3 yards out. Its literally on the match highlights, all talk about Swan missing his header, but Akins avoids any kind of mention for the worst miss of the decade? Yes swan should have scored, any of us could have scored Akins miss that nobody mentions its amazing how hes untouchable

[Martin Shaw]

Is everybody including Clough going to pretend that for the 2nd home game in a row Akins missed a free header from the centre of the goal from 3 yards out. Its literally on the match highlights, all talk about Swan missing his header, but Akins avoids any kind of mention for the worst miss of the decade? Yes swan should have scored, any of us could have scored Akins miss that nobody mentions its amazing how hes untouchable

It came through a crowd of players at pace and hit him. Not a miss at all in my opinion.

He did have a free header against Crewe, and should have done better.

[Stoney]

I posted about this in another thread. I disagree with you Martin.

The reason why it has just hit him is because of how poor his anticipation was so he just stood there and when it came through the crowd he wasn't expecting it. A proper striker would be gambling on it coming through the crowd and it's an easy head in from a few yards. His stance was all wrong, if he stayed on his toes and was ready he's heading that in all day long.

I like Akins but it was poor from him in one of his worst games for a good while.

[Martin Shaw]

I posted about this in another thread. I disagree with you Martin.

The reason why it has just hit him is because of how poor his anticipation was so he just stood there and when it came through the crowd he wasn't expecting it. A proper striker would be gambling on it coming through the crowd and it's an easy head in from a few yards. His stance was all wrong, if he stayed on his toes and was ready he's heading that in all day long.

I like Akins but it was poor from him in one of his worst games for a good while.

if you watch it frame by frame, you'll see the trajectory of the ball changes in the six yards before it reaches him. He has no chance.

[Stoney]

If that's right then I missed that when I watched it live from the QLE then Martin. If it took a touch off someone that might have been enough to make him miss it.

[victor A block]

The point is still valid about Akins, slight deflection or not. He has a lot of attributes he brings to the side. BUT, in my view he is not a striker that anticipates chances. He always seems slower to react and is on the back-foot. He's also out of form on what he does do well..
Dare I mention the striker we will be seeing next Saturday at Field Mill.
We are really missing that in our strike-force.

[Stephen]

My take on why he doesnt anticipate anything or why he goes deep and out wide and not in the box as much as he is, is because he not an out and out striker, hes player a lot of his time out wide of a front three, thats his best position in my opinion. I think the reason why he’s playing so poorly is because he’s up there on his own with just DKD off of him. We need to get back to two up front and DKD in behind them both.