{ the forum }
 
An independent supporters' website dedicated to Mansfield Town FC

Results v Entertainment

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Sneag » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:13 pm

Johnny Rotten wrote:Football is a results based business

That is all


Then there is no point in watching it. Jeff Stelling can tell you the results.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
User avatar
Sneag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 13957
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: King Solomon he never lived `round here

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Sneag » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:15 pm

Spiritater wrote:
thon wrote:
Johnny Rotten wrote:Football is a results based business

That is all

Only to the hardcore - which will be enough to sustain the club, but won't make it successful.


If we get result after result after result, and success with it for a sustained period folk will come.
Folk love to support a winning team no matter how the football is played.
To seriously beleive that just 'the hardcore' only will turn up if we get success without 'pretty' footy is just silly thon


so why were the gates mostly raspberry in the BSP? Great results, poor (expensive) football.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
User avatar
Sneag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 13957
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: King Solomon he never lived `round here

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Spiritater » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:30 pm

Sneag wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
thon wrote:
Johnny Rotten wrote:Football is a results based business

That is all

Only to the hardcore - which will be enough to sustain the club, but won't make it successful.


If we get result after result after result, and success with it for a sustained period folk will come.
Folk love to support a winning team no matter how the football is played.
To seriously beleive that just 'the hardcore' only will turn up if we get success without 'pretty' footy is just silly thon


so why were the gates mostly raspberry in the BSP? Great results, poor (expensive) football.


Read my post again bud and digest it before posting nonsense.

I mean by a 'sustained period' that that period is not a one season wonder like we are used to. To go up, then stay up with ease, then press for a playoff place/go up again etc etc. That is sustained success.
They'll come in their droves then no matter what style is played. Granted it would be nice to do it Barcaesque, but first and foremost winning results, season after season brings fans.
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 25529
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Sneag » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:36 pm

Spiritater wrote:
Sneag wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
thon wrote:
Johnny Rotten wrote:Football is a results based business

That is all

Only to the hardcore - which will be enough to sustain the club, but won't make it successful.


If we get result after result after result, and success with it for a sustained period folk will come.
Folk love to support a winning team no matter how the football is played.
To seriously beleive that just 'the hardcore' only will turn up if we get success without 'pretty' footy is just silly thon


so why were the gates mostly raspberry in the BSP? Great results, poor (expensive) football.


Read my post again bud and digest it before posting nonsense.

I mean by a 'sustained period' that that period is not a one season wonder like we are used to. To go up, then stay up with ease, then press for a playoff place/go up again etc etc. That is sustained success.
They'll come in their droves then no matter what style is played. Granted it would be nice to do it Barcaesque, but first and foremost winning results, season after season brings fans.


So when the promotion side of Dearden & Watkiss went from gates of 2,500 to 5,000+ that was a sustained period was it? Or was it just that the entertainment on offer was some of the best we've ever seen?
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
User avatar
Sneag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 13957
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: King Solomon he never lived `round here

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Spiritater » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:42 pm

They soon disappeared though didn't they as most were along for the ride. To keep them 'to form an allegiance with the club' the period of success needs to be longer than one season.
Plus on a whole the away followings that year were substantially bigger than they are now.
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 25529
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby thon » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:13 pm

Those crowds were due to a mix of results and 'shmexy' football.

It was the best time in my life to be a Stags fan. The football was phenomenal, and you wanted to see us play every week, you couldn't wait for saturday to come around.

Grinding out results booting the ball up the pitch does not have the same effect - you need to be one of the hardcore for that to keep you 'entertained'. For a manager and the hardcore, mostly, it is a results business.
For the fan wanting value for his time and his £, it is an entertainment business, just like wherever else he might decide to spend his time and his £.

Even in Mansfield, it's just not the only show in town anymore. Those who go every week do so out of one or all of habit, camaraderie (the 'craic'), or lack of imagination. Or possibly genuine love for lower league football however it goes. I think most of the hardcore go for one of the former reasons.
thon
 

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:19 pm

thon wrote:Those crowds were due to a mix of results and 'shmexy' football.

It was the best time in my life to be a Stags fan. The football was phenomenal, and you wanted to see us play every week, you couldn't wait for saturday to come around.

Grinding out results booting the ball up the pitch does not have the same effect - you need to be one of the hardcore for that to keep you 'entertained'. For a manager and the hardcore, mostly, it is a results business.
For the fan wanting value for his time and his £, it is an entertainment business, just like wherever else he might decide to spend his time and his £.

Even in Mansfield, it's just not the only show in town anymore. Those who go every week do so out of one or all of habit, camaraderie (the 'craic'), or lack of imagination. Or possibly genuine love for lower league football however it goes. I think most of the hardcore go for one of the former reasons.


There was also one more ingredient, a new ground ;)

:mansfield_till_i_die:
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Sneag » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:54 pm

Spiritater wrote:They soon disappeared though didn't they as most were along for the ride. To keep them 'to form an allegiance with the club' the period of success needs to be longer than one season.
Plus on a whole the away followings that year were substantially bigger than they are now.


they lasted 3 years despite a relegation in the middle. It took a deliberate act of malice by Haslam to drive them back down.

You have been arguing for weeks that the public should just turn up & watch the Stags just because they live in Mansfield but now you say it needs sustained success to get the crowds in.

You say results are all that matters but the crowds didn't turn out for Cox's hoofball but it took 3-4 months of great football to double the gates under Dearden but you still try to play that down.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
User avatar
Sneag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 13957
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: King Solomon he never lived `round here

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Spiritater » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:35 pm

thon wrote:Those crowds were due to a mix of results and 'shmexy' football.

It was the best time in my life to be a Stags fan. The football was phenomenal, and you wanted to see us play every week, you couldn't wait for saturday to come around.

Grinding out results booting the ball up the pitch does not have the same effect - you need to be one of the hardcore for that to keep you 'entertained'. For a manager and the hardcore, mostly, it is a results business.
For the fan wanting value for his time and his £, it is an entertainment business, just like wherever else he might decide to spend his time and his £.

Even in Mansfield, it's just not the only show in town anymore. Those who go every week do so out of one or all of habit, camaraderie (the 'craic'), or lack of imagination. Or possibly genuine love for lower league football however it goes. I think most of the hardcore go for one of the former reasons.



Well enlighten me then as what else there is to do now that was'nt there before say 10 years ago? Christ Almighty we don't even have a leisure centre in the town now and half the shops are now empty. What are these other stupendous things that folk are now doing other than going to t'pub, popping into the latest £1 shop or newest Polish food outlet?
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 25529
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby The One » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:52 pm

Spiritater wrote:
thon wrote:Those crowds were due to a mix of results and 'shmexy' football.

It was the best time in my life to be a Stags fan. The football was phenomenal, and you wanted to see us play every week, you couldn't wait for saturday to come around.

Grinding out results booting the ball up the pitch does not have the same effect - you need to be one of the hardcore for that to keep you 'entertained'. For a manager and the hardcore, mostly, it is a results business.
For the fan wanting value for his time and his £, it is an entertainment business, just like wherever else he might decide to spend his time and his £.

Even in Mansfield, it's just not the only show in town anymore. Those who go every week do so out of one or all of habit, camaraderie (the 'craic'), or lack of imagination. Or possibly genuine love for lower league football however it goes. I think most of the hardcore go for one of the former reasons.



Well enlighten me then as what else there is to do now that was'nt there before say 10 years ago? Christ Almighty we don't even have a leisure centre in the town now and half the shops are now empty. What are these other stupendous things that folk are now doing other than going to t'pub, popping into the latest £1 shop or newest Polish food outlet?



many are struggling to break even in the current climate and have done since 2008. Who have had wage rises in the last few years? So in fact it is decrease in income.
The One
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 14571
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:07 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Spiritater » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:54 pm

That doesn't answer my question to thon though.
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 25529
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Spiritater » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:56 pm

The One wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
thon wrote:Those crowds were due to a mix of results and 'shmexy' football.

It was the best time in my life to be a Stags fan. The football was phenomenal, and you wanted to see us play every week, you couldn't wait for saturday to come around.

Grinding out results booting the ball up the pitch does not have the same effect - you need to be one of the hardcore for that to keep you 'entertained'. For a manager and the hardcore, mostly, it is a results business.
For the fan wanting value for his time and his £, it is an entertainment business, just like wherever else he might decide to spend his time and his £.

Even in Mansfield, it's just not the only show in town anymore. Those who go every week do so out of one or all of habit, camaraderie (the 'craic'), or lack of imagination. Or possibly genuine love for lower league football however it goes. I think most of the hardcore go for one of the former reasons.



Well enlighten me then as what else there is to do now that was'nt there before say 10 years ago? Christ Almighty we don't even have a leisure centre in the town now and half the shops are now empty. What are these other stupendous things that folk are now doing other than going to t'pub, popping into the latest £1 shop or newest Polish food outlet?



many are struggling to break even in the current climate and have done since 2008. Who have had wage rises in the last few years? So in fact it is decrease in income.


Me :D
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 25529
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby The One » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:59 pm

Spiritater wrote:That doesn't answer my question to thon though.


you asked re 10 years ago! People have other entertainment opportunities ie, if its only downloading boxsets off TV and other entertainment, I believe cinema attendances are down also. Its all about choices and options. Some people do not attend a shop anymore its all online.
The One
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 14571
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:07 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Spiritater » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:06 pm

So you are saying they are all glued to their laptops?

Wowee that must be rivetting.
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 25529
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby The One » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:14 pm

Spiritater wrote:So you are saying they are all glued to their laptops?

Wowee that must be rivetting.


Sad but true and I did not even mention games consoles
The One
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 14571
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:07 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:17 pm

The majority of the people of Mansfield and surrounding areas in the last 35 years have shown apathy towards their local football team :( we had 2,000+ attendances in the early 80's prior to the pit closures and there was no internet etc, and we've got 2,000+ attendances now.

What we do hear is how hundreds etc of fans would come back if there was no H@"!@m, no non-league, no hoof ball etc etc etc etc, however the fans we do have are a great loyal bunch, and compared to our home attendances we can take a good number of fans to away games :D

We really need the town to support their local team :D if we're to go up a few divisions :D

:mansfield_till_i_die:
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Amberheart » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:45 am

KirkbyStag2 wrote:The majority of the people of Mansfield and surrounding areas in the last 35 years have shown apathy towards their local football team :( we had 2,000+ attendances in the early 80's prior to the pit closures and there was no internet etc, and we've got 2,000+ attendances now.

What we do hear is how hundreds etc of fans would come back if there was no H@"!@m, no non-league, no hoof ball etc etc etc etc, however the fans we do have are a great loyal bunch, and compared to our home attendances we can take a good number of fans to away games :D

We really need the town to support their local team :D if we're to go up a few divisions :D

:mansfield_till_i_die:

Well said & unfortunately true
KTF !
User avatar
Amberheart
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3735
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:31 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Johnny Rotten » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:02 pm

Possible merged thread?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25649

Both focus primarily on the common denominator that is results or entertainment what we want to see
@orpington_stag
London & SE Stags Lead
APFSCIL Vice Chair
Ex-Away day fancy dress/theme planner
User avatar
Johnny Rotten
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2404
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:54 pm
Location: St Paul's Cray, Orpington, Kent

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:48 pm

KirkbyStag2 wrote:If we need 52 points to stay up, we need 24 points from our 19 games, so either

PLD.........W...........D...........L.........PTS.....
19............8............0...........11..........24....
19............7............3............9...........24....
19...........6.............6...........7............24....
19...........5............9............5............24....

:coys: :mansfield_till_i_die:

4 out of 6 Home games in February, time to STEP UP :D

:head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball:


Well, the team has stepped up at home with 10 out of 12 points :D

Based on 52 points we would still need 14 points from 13 games,

PLD.............W...........D..........L...........PTS
13................4.............2.........7.............14.
13................3............5..........5.............14.
13...............2.............8..........3.............14.

6 home games left :D

:coys:
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Expat Stag » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:00 pm

Boring Winners and Long Ball in England

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting- ... al_twitter

^ Interesting article. Looked for this thread the other day but couldn't find it.
Hope I'm wrong
User avatar
Expat Stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3589
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:53 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:11 pm

Expat Stag wrote:Boring Winners and Long Ball in England

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting- ... al_twitter

^ Interesting article. Looked for this thread the other day but couldn't find it.


:good_post:

Refers to "Inverting the Pyramid" which is a very good book that i would recommend, details historical tactics :D

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inverting-Pyramid-History-Football-Tactics/dp/1409128644

:coys:
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:41 pm

Sneag wrote:I want my cake and l want to eat it.

We've had 3 years of good results (mostly) and I've been bored out of my skull for most of it.


Sneag

Plenty of cake this season, I'm podged :D

Results & Entertainment :D Long may it continue :D

:coys:
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby part time pete » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:29 am

KirkbyStag2 wrote:
KirkbyStag2 wrote:If we need 52 points to stay up, we need 24 points from our 19 games, so either

PLD.........W...........D...........L.........PTS.....
19............8............0...........11..........24....
19............7............3............9...........24....
19...........6.............6...........7............24....
19...........5............9............5............24....

:coys: :mansfield_till_i_die:

4 out of 6 Home games in February, time to STEP UP :D

:head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball: :head ball:


Well, the team has stepped up at home with 10 out of 12 points :D

Based on 52 points we would still need 14 points from 13 games,

PLD.............W...........D..........L...........PTS
13................4.............2.........7.............14.
13................3............5..........5.............14.
13...............2.............8..........3.............14.

6 home games left :D

:coys:


Interesting we only won 3 and drawn 1 and lost 9 but still stayed up.
Those accustomed to privilege may feel that equality is oppression.
part time pete
Prediction League Manager
 
Posts: 10248
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:39 pm

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby Sneag » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:30 am

KirkbyStag2 wrote:
Sneag wrote:I want my cake and l want to eat it.

We've had 3 years of good results (mostly) and I've been bored out of my skull for most of it.


Sneag

Plenty of cake this season, I'm podged :D

Results & Entertainment :D Long may it continue :D

:coys:


I never undetstood the thinking that equated better football with poor results.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
User avatar
Sneag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 13957
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:41 pm
Location: King Solomon he never lived `round here

Re: Results v Entertainment

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:02 pm

Sneag wrote:
KirkbyStag2 wrote:
Sneag wrote:I want my cake and l want to eat it.

We've had 3 years of good results (mostly) and I've been bored out of my skull for most of it.


Sneag

Plenty of cake this season, I'm podged :D

Results & Entertainment :D Long may it continue :D

:coys:


I never undetstood the thinking that equated better football with poor results.


Guess it depends on your viewpoint, i suppose Sneag?

Certainly in the dark days of BSP we saw plenty of games where we just weren't gritty and physical enough - we were buffeted around like a pair of Kangas-danglers on a trampoline. Fully agree that 'better' football can generate results, but better needs to be more than just 'hand-shandy eye-candy' or it doesn't guarantee anything in my book.

There's a place and time for every style of football. We played like we had to in the BSP (imo), and we're all 'more than glad' those days and tactics are behind us ;)
If i look in pain it's because i'm thinking
User avatar
MutinyOnTheCounty
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3038
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Billy the fish, Bing [Bot], Roger_Sausage and 125 guests